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Methabaron
11-28-2000, 13:55
Anyone has some ideas about this??, because so far he has got all the wins when playing me and this starts to be quite annoying http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Help !!!!!!!!!!

I would like to know an effective way to beat him at the 3000 koku battles which is one of his prefered ones if Im not mistaken. He changes army often but one of his trademarks is the famous high honour ashi + musket combo with some monks and nodachi as topping.

Metha

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"...Violence is the last resort of the incompetent..."

ShadowKill
11-28-2000, 14:08
try try try try try try try try try try try win. your bound to win one of them

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Fear not the sword to your front, but the blade at your back.

http://www.geocities.com/peacekeeper316/Shadow.jpg

Link Shumeisan
11-28-2000, 14:32
Hehe
Same problem here...
Some of my clan fellow more successfull in this quest I'll try to make them speak here http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Tenchimuyo
11-28-2000, 18:36
Well you'll just have to hope for a raining day!

Erado San
11-28-2000, 18:56
Good Luck and Good Timing perhaps?

I have had some success against high honour ashi's by blocking them with nagi's and charging into their flank with No Dachi. Use wide stretched formation for the nagi's.

Then have 1 unit of Yari Cav as a threat to his musks. Also bring some musks yourself perhaps.

If he's defending on a good position, take your time in getting around him to a good position for yourself. If he's charging, make sure he can't charge from higher ground. Try to lure him to a position where you might have higher ground.

But, he's a good player. You're gonna need all the skill you have. Try and play some friendly's on the maps he prefers and see how you can get a good position.

Ai-jin
11-28-2000, 21:50
Just hire a bunch of geisha girls to flirt with him while he is playing... I am sure he'll mess up fast enough... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Oh hell, who cares about beating him... I'll take the geishas and win in a "different" type of game.. woohoo~!!!

(I dont have the name of "Ai-jin" for nothing)

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http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=PersonalBEETribe&ID_Topic=1&ID_Message=14
Clan "No Fear At All"
"The rivers will flow with blood from thy enemy"

11-28-2000, 22:33
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

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the great lord http://www.geocities.com/vinyljock/monn_t.gif jd

theforce
11-28-2000, 22:55
Fear is hard man to kill. Also in 3000 koku his likes to have plenty of units at a cost of honour.
Try play him in a 2v2. Kill his ally and its 2v1 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Magyar Khan
11-29-2000, 01:07
next time i play amp, he will reveal his army on my LogFileReader! that should help. rock scissors paper

Zen Blade
11-29-2000, 06:42
Amp very good...

one thing I have noticed is his preference (sometimes, not always) to having max yari samurai which are cheaper as a defensive screen....

not really a secret to winning, just an observation.

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

Rob
11-29-2000, 06:50
I do that a lot too. They are so much cheaper than Naginata and usually last long enough to get the crucial flanking attack in.

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Honour to Clan Akai Ken

Avenging Warrior
11-29-2000, 08:24
On the topic of tactics, I always tend to get screwed by large amounts of muskets. My men flee as soon as they get close. Funny thing about muskets - they don't really do a lot of damage, they just rout units off the map. (naturally, when I try to flank, my opponent's defenses counter)
Yes, I know that one of the "tactics" is wait for a rainy day, but for some reason that doesn't usually happen.
Oh, and by the way, what effect does fog have on battle (besides the players not being able to see crap)?

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Life has no meaning. Do not concern yourself with it.

leoknite
11-29-2000, 08:33
high powered ashis and muskeets, go to higher ground with arrows and monks, a h3 or h2 monk can beat any ashi. Have the arrows blast his guns away, then use yur muskeets to blast him away, i he tries to rush u use the archers to fight and the monks to flank.

Zen Blade
11-29-2000, 09:20
I strongly disagree with that leoknite.

I think a level 6 ashi (which costs less than a level 2 monk) can hold its own against a monk. And the higher the ashigaru, the fewer deaths they take.

What does everyone else think? Obake, Kahn?

-Zen Blade

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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG

The Black Ship
11-29-2000, 10:03
I've sure gotten my hat handed to me by H7 ashis! And me thinking Ashis-easy meat for the grinder. Ah well live and learn http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Niger Navis Navis Sesquiculus ShipOfFear

Dark Phoenix
11-29-2000, 10:34
When I was playing against Puzzled I sent a H2 monk up against a H7 ashi and the monks got beaten by them. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Phoenix

The Daimyo
11-29-2000, 10:37
Well, I think the key to beat someone like AMP is avoiding procrastination and outthinking yourself. If you sit too long, he figures out your weakness then thinks ahead a couple moves then sets you up for a charge that you can't defend against, or makes you confident in charging then out mans your deployment with just a few carefully placed clicks.
Another thing to avoid is having units loitering around away from where they are useful. The more you have to scroll around the map to grab units the more time you give a good player to rout your unattended frontline units.
As far as units are concerned, Yari Samurai are your best units for dealing with Yari Ashigaru (aside from Monks). It takes (numerically) twice as many Yari Ashigaru (at 2-3 honor) to take down a single Yari Samurai unit (at 2 honor) in a frontal assault. The key to the Ashigaru is using them in pairs. Notice how one will hit you from thefront while the other looks like it's going to pass you by but then it comes back in on the side. The bonus it recieves is substantial, and this is compounded for both units due to the fact that the unit being attacked now needs to fight on both sides. (So mathematically your 60 man unit is now facing 120 units and it is counted as being a flanked attack on both sides since the attention of the unit gets divided UNLESS you command them to continue attacking in just one direction. (alt+ Left click, forcing the direction of focus)
The tactic that's nailing a lot of us here is the outflanking that takes place on the front lines when you fail to commit your forces properly once the lines start moving on the other side. This can only be beat by matching each attack or defense with a counter or a compound movement in force.
One part of the numbers game that a lot of people forget is that when you're units are being shot at, while standing or advancing, they are losing moral every 2-3 seconds usually. The moral of the opposing force remains unchanged as long as they are allowed to continue shooting or advancing unharrassed. (This is the best use for Cav. Archers, seeing that the only two units they can fight and kill in an even fight on the field are Samurai Archers and Muskets/Arq's.)
The best solution to this dilema is to match shot for shot, and to march your units into an attack at an odd angle. Going head on will result in a rout for low honor units with negative moral bonuses. Yari Samurai can take a lot more punishment than Yari Ashigaru for this matter, at any honor level (but never 0).
When rushed, return the rush in a lateral charge. Unless you know your units are better off than his, don't commit to a head on rush unless you're going down a hill. Always try and scoot across his frontlines so that each unit that is attacking is doing it in a fashion that may result in your attack being against the opposing unit's flank. Just a tad, that's all it takes. WAITING until the other guy has commited to attacking a particular unit - then nailing that attacking unit from the side while it's tangled up is also an invaluable aid, if you can spot it fast enough.

Have Fun!



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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@http://www.planettotalwar.com

leoknite
11-29-2000, 11:25
I think the best way to be able to beat amp is to have the knowledablity of how units work, how they do with honour, and how they do against others of high or low honour, I I have experimented on honour quiete a long time. Also any person who wants to win has to understand the feild and use any part of it to an advantage. HEAR ME STRAIGHT IF YOU PLAY A GREAT GENERAL THERE IS NO STRATEGY TO BEAT THEM NO MATTER WHAT. Just play with skill you have and theres no shame in losing you can learn from your mistakes, but you should also observe theres for many times great generals fail to realize them.

Methabaron
11-29-2000, 14:27
Thats all very good and well Leoknite, but... anyone else having ideas or suggestions on how to beat AMP please keep posting please...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Metha

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"...Violence is the last resort of the incompetent..."

solypsist
11-29-2000, 14:38
he joined a game and then dropped before we even met on the map.
so that was one there.

but otherwise, its a good thing to see a good player get some recognition (and fear/respect/loathing) within the community.

Methabaron
11-29-2000, 15:05
Yeah, I am a very good player too, actually I am the best of all because I rock and you all suck. I think I should deserve another thread entitled how to beat Methabaron.

Pretty sure I would beat the record for the longer thread ever with that one.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Metha

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"...Violence is the last resort of the incompetent..."

[This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 11-29-2000).]

Tenchimuyo
11-29-2000, 19:42
Another long thread? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif C'mon is that necessary?

theforce
11-30-2000, 18:24
There a way that works all the time:
Take yer regural army and rush him........
now before engaging with him order your Y-wing to bomd his troops then have your At-At's aAt-St for support start to fire from aback
he will flee.

Obake
11-30-2000, 22:15
You all don't really expect me to give away the secrets of a Clan-mate do you? (not that I have any idea). http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/corky/corkysm43.gif

Actually, before we became clan-mates I had the opportunity to play with him, and also to be crushed by him (although I think I actually beat him once). What makes AMP so difficult is that he has the ability to vary his Army constantly and to shift tactics as well.

Sometimes he will Monk Rush you and knock you out in less than two minutes, and sometimes he will just destroy your army one unit at a time until you want to cry out with despair. What makes AMP difficult to beat is that he maintains no discernable pattern in his approach. He has truly mastered "The Art of War" and will always keep you guessing where he will hit next, and with what.

I think that by now, most of us are becoming familiar with the high honor Ashi tactics that AMP perfected (I know Zen has become very proficient with them). The key to this army is micro-management and if there were a tried and true way to beat this, it would be to remove the ability to co-ordinate at that level. How that is done is anybody's guess.

On a final note; As far as Ashi are concerned, I have found that H5 Ashi will still lose to H2 Monks (albeit not quickly), H6 Ashi are an even match and H7 Ashi will beat H2 Monks. After taking a beating from Zen's Ashi over the weekend, I have been experimenting a bit more with these troops!

Honor to FearAMP Hojo!

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I am the ghost of your fears.
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Tenchimuyo
11-30-2000, 22:27
Perfect! now I know how to use those useless Ashis!

Magyar Khan
11-30-2000, 23:34
maybe some unexpected monky rush will do....

Tenchimuyo
12-01-2000, 09:00
Why not pack in a couple of trigger happy marine G.I and we can have a TW shoot out!

FearOrBeSori
12-01-2000, 14:14
Hehe high hon ashi Amp has sure rubbed off on me. Tenchi b4 you go overboard with high hon ashi remember that they are still peasants and even with high hon if one of them breaks in mid-battle or those guns supporting them sees a ghost and runs, the ashi get VERY VERY scared. And if ur sporting enough of those ashi in ur army they quickly show how no1 runs better than a peasant. This might help with Amp's army but the question is how to rout that unit in the first place... as if I had the answer! lol - Sori

Magyar Khan
12-01-2000, 17:42
and of course using one of his own armies and try to figure out how he uses them might help

Rob
12-01-2000, 17:46
I remember one bizarre battle where I was experimenting with an army of mostly H7 and H8 ashis (on Totomi I think). My enemy had a 100% monk army and rushed my. My ashis took very heavy casualties as the wave of monks hit them - I mean VERY heavy. But they held their line long enough for me to flank with No-Dachi (I think) and the monks routed. I losts more ears than I took but still won the battle.

Ashis are obviously not for the easily panicked http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Honour to Clan Akai Ken

solypsist
12-02-2000, 01:01
sorry. i've mowed down more fleeing high-honor all ashigaru armies than i can recall. i wouldn't trust 'em in my own army.