reinforcements vote

[DoCToR]

Hach, thought i'd use your template for the reinforcements debate too.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

The replies on this thread will be collated and added onto Hach's patch thread but for simplicity i have kept seperate. I expect mostly North Americans to reply at first and the Europeans to reply in the coming weeks.I cannot even vote yet as i have yet to play the game.Also please don't vote if under the age of 18!(just kidding)

I want a vote on the reinforcements issue.
Please post just a single letter answer and not long saga as this can be posted in the other reinforcements threads.

Do you:

EDIT:
(A)Prefer the old reinforcements method of STW in it's entirety and want the new game to have the reinforcements method of the original game.

(B)Prefer the new reinforcements method and want the new game reinforcements method left untouched.

(C)Want neither but some sort of happy medium between the 2. For example, One way in SP and another in online KOTH? Or normal starting position for reinforcements on river battles and random in other battles!

(D) Reinforcements appear anywhere in your "half" of the map and on river provinces only on your side of the river.

(E) Reinforcements remain as they are but when routed run off the nearest side of the map, not solely your starting side!

NB If you feel you wish to change yer votes, please just edit yer posts http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


DOC

Edit: Doc freaks out Hach with his editing skills http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[This message has been edited by DoCToR (edited 08-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DoCToR (edited 08-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DoCToR (edited 08-23-2001).]

[BSM_Skkzarg]

C

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[QuietWolf]

I want them to appear at my start location ... or to be able to pick where they come in ... a general always controls where his rein's show up during a battle.

[Algesan]

C still.

E for SP
B for KotH

[This message has been edited by Algesan (edited 08-23-2001).]

[hach]

A C OR C Wolf mate

Hach

[hach]

Duh A B or C

Sorry

[hach]

Regarding category C i take it to mean that perhaps you may have random reinforcement on KOTH games'but not in Campaign mode.

[hach]

Forget my last post guys.

Been a long morning.

Hach

[monkeydan]

C

[ishikawa2]

Given ONLY those 3 choices, I guess my opinion falls under "C".

For the record, my full opinion is at http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001906.html and is sumamrized as follows:

Suggested correction (presumably VERY easy): Appearance of reinforcements should be limited to the player's original "half" of the battlefield.

NOTE: If a river is positioned in such a way that the "back half" of the battlefield actually includes a small bit of territory on "my" side of the river, **I** would accept that occasionally enemy reinforcements could arrive on "my" side. (I gather that many players might disagree with me on this.) In any case, I would think that the probability of this event would be rather low, with reinforcement entry points pretty much evenly distributed around the total available perimeter.


EDIT: ----RESPONSE TO QUESTION REVISIONS-----
WARNING: I fear that the inclusion of "routing behavior" issues in a debate/discussion/vote on "reinforcement arrival" may greatly muddy the waters. I think it might be better if the "routing behavior" issue was completely separate.

Based on the choices as currently stated,
please record me as a "D"
(D) Reinforcements appear anywhere in your "half" of the map and on river provinces only on your side of the river.
...However, as originally stated, I could personally live with a situation where enemy reinforcements could (rarely) appear on "my" side of the river, but still on "their half" of the battlefield.

P.S. I assume that "KOTH" refers to the new "King Of The Hill" mode of play? If so,
I have no opinion.


[This message has been edited by ishikawa2 (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Erado San]

Again, fully agree with Ishikawa.

Don't have experience on KOTH battles.

[DragonCat]

C

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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

[hach]

Doctor i don't want to make a mess of your thread'but perhaps a (D) may be necessary

D In Campaign mode reinforcements can appear from anywhere that was in the players half at start of play wether it be the rear or sides'but never in what was the opposing players half.KOTH may prove an esception.

Option (A) to clarify is as in STW and reinforcements can only appear from the rear edge.

What do you think Doctor?
If you agree then some people may want to change their original votes'but i can count to 10'so may just cope.Please donm't vote for (D) until Doctor says it is ok as it is his thread.

Either that or we make my text in this post the new option (C)

Hach

[hach]

Sorry guys

Bad spelling day.
If you do edit my text will you change esception to exception.

Hach

[Pachinko]

C

[DoCToR]

Yes, good idea Hach...C really covers a little too much in too vague a manner doesn't it?!

So add in:

(D) Reinforcements appear anywhere in your "half" of the map and on river provinces only on your side of the river.

(E) Reinforcements remain as they are but when routed run off the nearest side of the map, not solely your starting side!

If you feel you wish to change yer votes, please just edit yer posts http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

thanks,

DOC

[edRonin]

D with the stipulation that once reinforcements start to arrive they always come from that point on the map. This will do 2 things, it will prevent you from having to search all over the map for reinforcements coming from different points. Plus the reinforcements will be grouped so that they actually have a shot to do some damage.

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All your base are belong to us

[Alastair]

I like edRonin's suggestion. So D with them always coming from the same side of the map at once.

[TakeshidaSo]

As you can see from the lengthy discussions everyone who has the right, or opportunity to vote, doesnt always understand what he's voting for. Every election allows a period of campaigning, so that the most logical policies, and most believable people are given a chance to win over the masses. A vote, without supporting reason and fair debate, is a mindless vote. It is too early to hold an election, therefore, I abstain.


[This message has been edited by TakeshidaSo (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Shiro]

D

[monkeydan]

Now I would say "D"

[Gregoshi]

edRonin's version of D - all reinforcements come from the same location.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[ishikawa2]

LOL at TakeshidaSo !! I appreciate your cautious approach. But, as you can see by my post above, the "ballot box" can be re-opened, and even used to contribute to the debate!

Caution is certainly advisable, since our European brethren have yet to gain much experience with the new version's behavior.
Therefore, I would expect that the current discussion/opinion poll process would continue for a fair amount of time to allow them to fully participate.

... ...

[This message has been edited by ishikawa2 (edited 08-23-2001).]

[DarthGuru]

I would say E but im not sure thats possible... so I say D

[Jackson]

C

[Koga No Goshi]

D

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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

[The_battlefield_geisha]

E.

I like the new reinforcements, its more of a challenge (just what SP needs). My only problem is the way they rout that inflicts needless casualties on themselves.

It would also be nice if in say 20% of cases reinforcements arrived in a formation. As it is its too much like paratroopers scattered in the wind. At least once in a while they should have their act together and form a real threat to your rear.

[TakeshidaSo]

I live in America so I well know that people who have a great democracy and free elections can still see; ballot boxes stuffed or stolen, ballots fondled or mutilated, and voters attempting to vote as many times as they can. You can see from activity here that people will vote for two candidates, or write in votes expecting you to interpret them, AND YOU WILL. Especially troubling is the premature attempt at projecting a winner, or announcing a winner before the polling places have even closed. You also have added a new twist by expecting that people who change their minds, maybe from finally thinking about it, will actually correct the vote of their initial impressions. This is all on top of a lack of any time to campaign. I continue to abstain.

[A Nerd]

I think the reinforcement system may be unrealistic, but as for playability and variation it is quite good. I wouldn't change it, but perhaps allow for an option to change it from current to previous.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

TakeshidaSo

You voted for Gore didnt you? ROFL joking mate! Seriously, let this vote go - consider it a primary.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Dark Phoenix]

Well seeing I brought up option D I vote for
D.

Ed isnt the reason for this option so that you cant just route everything off the map. May as well keep it as the original.

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DoragonPhoenix of the Clan Doragon (http://clandragon2.homestead.com/Dragon01.html)

"DP is correct" - Shiro

[Kiwi]

D

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[MagyarKhans Cham]

My Khans message is "make it editable ingame"

[TakeshidaSo]

Now why did you make me have to respond to this post again? NO, I did not vote for Gore! My previous Governor is now my President, and I've vote for him in 3 elections. I'm a Republican because they want to conserve fiscally, and enhance military preparedness, whereas the Democratic party want to increase publicly funded programs, and use a cutback in the military to do it. Beauracracy is a weed, and must be constantly trimmed back. There are other minor issues, and no political party is perfect. I like Bush too, he convinced me of his sincerity, while I didnt like Gore, because I didnt think he was believable. Bush has been what I hoped he would be.

By the way, there's another vote here that you'll have to interpret, and all the examples apply to this "primary". All the problems I referred to, ocurred on behalf of the Democratic party, except the one added here of expecting people who change their minds to change their votes.

[Sword_Monkey]

D) Limit them to your half of the map. Although I agree with the suggestion that this should be subsequently modified to have them come from one (or maybe two) points once they've been randomly determined. This seems to have the most realistic feel.

KOTH should be left untouched.

[TakeshidaSo]

Although I no longer abstain, I will write in my vote, so that the elections commision can interpret my vote in any way the see fit.

I agree that the old system for reinforcements appears to be better than the new one, with the current routing unit behavior. In WRG miniature rules, you could assign detached units to attempt to come on the map at the Left, Right, your own or the enemy's Rear edge. They came in within a range of turns, with units moving to the enemy's rear edge taking longer, and with cavalry arriving sooner than lightly armored infantry, and light troops sooner than heavily armored infantry. This "Indirect Approach" was rarely employed, but was a good option in certain terrain, or weather. Implementing these rules would have all detached, or reinforcing, units operating under the same set of options, decided before the battle. This places all units under realistic employment guidelines, instead of the current reinforcements approach. All we now know is that a planned approach to reinforcements was replaced with a random one. I hope that "cycle reinforcements", and the note about continuing to work on it, means that reinforcements, and detached troops, can be instructed before the battle about where they should appear. That these detached\reinforcing troops can be introduced onto the tactical battlefield thru the use of strategic decisions. This is how they can integrate the strategic part of the game with the tactical part, in a logical way.

[clink]

D

[RyuRatta Yamamoto]

D, with some consideration for F which I will call the verbose Takshida's proposal. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
That would truly be the best, if it were workable.

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]I ) \ / ]| [
]I \..I .]|_/

]I ) ]L\ ~][~~][~ ]L\
]I \ ]| \..][ ... ][...]| \

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

D and "better" (we can decide where are re-inforcements come in from).

[celtiberoijontychi]

There are two important options missing:

F: "Editable in-game" with reinforcments menu

G: They come in according to their position on the strategy map (N-W-S-E)

[barocca]

F: "Editable in-game" with reinforcments menu, for me this means i can choose original, random, or N-S-E-W as I desire for SP,
KOTH (hosts choice - displayed in game settings)

AND

G: They come in according to their position on the strategy map (N-W-S-E)



[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 08-24-2001).]

[TakeshidaSo]

First of all, RYU, I had to write in my vote, because I cant understand who the candidates are in this election. Are hyroglyphics the opposite of verbose? Missouri is the "show me" state, not the "scribble for me" state. Aint they'se edurmacated you un's up thar yet? We get us's Texicans a collage dun hereun. After all the hep Gen. McCulloch give to yall.

[Shoko]

D but maybe E!50/50

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Shoko Emperor
Die by the Sword
http://hatamotokill.homestead.com/files/Skeleton3.gif

[The Daimyo]

D
E
f

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif



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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@ http://www.planettotalwar.com

[TakeshidaSo]

I think "cycling reinforcements" already indicates that CA had the plan to use reinforcements in a logical, and strategically controlled way. I support that effort, and I hope they will complete the task, and so do they by the sound of it. I suggested adding the possibility of detaching forces from the main body to the reinforcement plans, and allowing for these "secondary" forces to enter the map within certain areas that were predetermined by the player. Using secondary forces in a planned way allows for a strategic envelopment. This integrates the strategic and tactical parts of the game. The current random approach is just a stopgap measure anyway. If its easier to program secondary units to enter from a map area that is determined before the battle, so much the better. If all units in the army are chosen as main, or secondary, forces before the battle, then control over which units deploy at the start is also allowed. This feature has been requested by many people, but is just a part of this planned reinforcements approach.

[KyodaiFunky]

D

[hach]

A

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The greatest thrill in life is not to Kill' but to let live!

[Shinobi]

A / B
I prefer more options if it is possible