Strategic units...opinions and worthiness...!?

[DoCToR]

Ok, the Emissary:

1. Greatly improved, with the bribing opinion making them worthwhile in the latter part of campaigns as well as the beignning!

2. The AI unfortunately seems to stop using them so much towards the latter part of the campaign and never seems to use their bribing option... shame ;-(

3. Useful for port to port attacks although again AI does make use of these very much, if at all?!

The Ninja:

1. Ability to help relieve sieges is a nice added touch.

2. Apart from that they are too easily maimed by security forces, this should be more relative to the honour of the ninja.

3. Not very effective at even assassinating the weakest of generals and therfore are basically a waste of the 200 koku! 34% chance for an h0 ninja to assassinate a rank 0 general! And generals only really become useful targets when they reach rank 2!. Ninjas were far more useful in patch 1.12 for the original version...me wonders why they have been toned down again?!

Shinobi:

1. Much the same as previous shinobi and therefore very good value for their money!

Some else can fill me in regards to the Christian priests...and if i missed any other useful points http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Overall though:

Emissary: 9
Ninja: 5 (due to poor assassination ability in relation to their cost)
Shinobi: 7

[Lord Aeon]

Actually, the CPU tries to bribe armies quite often, it's just that it rarely succeeds in bribing armies of the major clans. If you move shinobi aroundand get some decent intelligence, you'll see all kinds of priests and emissaries, even in the latter part of the game, attempting to bribe armies (when you click on them their status will say "bribing").

Ninja can be pumped in honor by catching enemy shinobi/ninja and picking off priests and emissaries. Think of them as offensive shinobi (without the ability to start rebellions, i think). You let them counterspy for awhile and hit enemy priests and emissaries, they'll be plenty tough enough to take on that H2 general after just a couple kills.

LOL, an H0 general is just a *tad* better protected than that enemy emissary on your turf. It should follow that H0 rookie ninja have a very tough time taking out an enemy general. And don't forget there's those other building... i think they're called "Infamous Ninja Houses" or something to that effect that help you make tougher ninja, and later on with other buildings, geisha. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[DoCToR]

Fair points Aeon http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Just i am still not convinced that by the time you've lost 5 or so ninjas just to kill one h2 general that it's worth the cost!!!

At 200 koku a ninja, these guys are not cheap...and they usually get caught by enemy security forces - dead just like that...well that's how my h4 ninja (highest i ever had) got mashed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

Anyways compared to the other two units they just aren't as useful and they cost twice the price!!

[Whitey]

Its tough y'know, I've had H6 Shinobi from time to time (you literally leave a whole group of 10 inciting rebellion in 1-2 provinces for years, not only does it tie up about 1000 enemy clan units and every now and again give you an army (if you ever held the province) and once they're THAT good, you don't need to garrison any troops in new provinces, you just send in one Shinobi

I thought they were weaker in the original STW...or was it just me, can't live without them now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

The strategic units in MI have greatly improved overall i think. In fact, nearly everything that concerns the strategic map has vastly improved.

Emissaries and priests: Can bribe and alliances are more important now.

Ninja: I find them stronger than in the original. It costs one to three Ninjas to get rid of an H2 geisha, that's much better than before (The AI seems to use more geishas now).

Don't send them in a province without checking if there is a border fort with an emissary/priest or the last one in will die.

You must remember also that a strategy unit only costs once for training (compared to a 60 unit of yari sams that cost the same thing + 60 Koku each year to maintain them). Tec them up also (so you can get h1 and h2 ninjas off the bat)

Shinobi: Also seems a bit stronger, i need les of them to create revolts(in one revolt created by them, the Shimazu clan came back with a young heir after being wiped out)

Geisha: has been tone down a bit. Easier to kill with a ninja and needs to get high honor before trying to kill High honor taishos, heir and daimyos (or else you will see the message-havent found a suitable opportunity yet for ever).

The Daimyo: AS A STRATEGIC UNIT IS OF THE UTTER MOST IMPORTANCE NOW. Loose him in a battle and watch your provinces revolt.

Ports: Because they are cheaper and quicker to build now, ports have increased in importance as quick way to move your units.


[This message has been edited by KumaRatta Yamamoto (edited 08-27-2001).]

[Whitey]

I've lost my Daimyo in battle (I know, silly me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) but revolts only in new provinces... it must be my policy to keep 2 Shinobi in each province...that must be adequate precaution also - I havn't seen so much of the suicide Daimyo since installing MI and don't notice the AI being ripped apart by rebellion...