The AI still doesn\'t use the port bug, does it?

[hecose]

I have heard a few people comment that the AI in the WE now uses the port bug (port invasion), i.e. send an invasion army from a distant province with a port to your province which also has a port. I have played a few campaigns in WE and I don't think that is the case. I have always left my back-door port provinces undefended. However I did notice a situation which might have been misunderstood as being a port invasion. Once when I attacked an enemy province which has a port, the enemy sent reinforcements from another distant province. Now that is not a port invasion, but port defence. Can anyone confirm this? Or maybe the AI only uses port invasion if you have used it before? (I don't use it myself)

[Pachinko]

Everybody can and does the Port..Because i seen it. There was Oda clan vs shimazu clan and I (Takeda Clan) had shinobi was there...Only 1 time....So far... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifIts kinda fun.I was liking the Vikings I got more koku(Razeing sp?) than I can use... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

P.

[Algesan]

The AI will use it according to several on the boards here. I'm leaving a small garrison unit, building border forts and several Shinobi in each port. I add a Ninja for emissaries later. I haven't seen the AI use one yet, but I've had lots of security kills on Ninjas and Shinobi. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[MajorFreak]

not me...just played a campaign on expert and i had numerous undefended ports and didn't get bushwacked once.

[hecose]

Hmm... is it possible that only the AI clans do it among themselves? I have never had any AI do it to me (and I have never done it to any of them either). Or maybe the reason that they have not done it to me was because I had spies / border forts stopping their spies / ninjas. Maybe they need to have a spy in that port province before they can launch a port attack? Anyway, my general feel is: I have never seen the AI do it to me and I feel they don't do it.

[Hawkeye]

Even if the computer does use the port 'bug' why do you call it a bug? I would tend to think that it is a legitamate strategy and move.

Japan, a country of extremes.

[johnmcd]

I've seen the AI use it for strategic units, but never for armies in either version of the game. It would be nice if it only used it if you did though, sort of let the computer work out the house rules as it were.

I think the reason it can be seen as a bug rather than a feature is because during the time the game is set the Japanese were by no means a naval power and moving a thousand soldiers was a logistical feat beyond the means of the day. Thats my understanding anyway and the reason there is no naval warfare in the game.

[This message has been edited by johnmcd (edited 08-27-2001).]

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

In MI it is an official feature, it is not a bug (page 59 of the official MI guide we're they write about ports).

And yes , you have to discover the ports by sending in a strategic unit (and that unit has to survive one turn).

[hecose]

Holy cow. That means all this while I've merely been lucky. Which strategic units do they need before they can do a port attack? Ninja & shinobi only? Or does it also include emissaries? Seems like in my games they do have plenty of emissaries running around but they still haven't used port attacks.

[solypsist]

yes the AI uses port attacks, just like you (the human player) can. The trick in preventing this is to keep several shinobi/ninjas in your port provinces to kill/capture enemy agents that appear in the port provinces. In order for the AI to port-attack, it must have a live agent in that province.

[MajorFreak]

ahhhhhhhh...oic! i always kept 1 shinobi & 1 ninja in every province...hehe. no wonder i didn't get bushwacked! (i hate priests and wanted ninjas all over just to gank them when they teleported in...i hate teleporting priests)

[The_battlefield_geisha]

If the AI is using port invasions it must be SO INCREDIBLY RARE that it almost qualifies as divine intervention...

Ive played almost a dozen campaigns in the MI and never seen it once.

[Jaguar]

Same, played countless campaigns and never was invaded

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Honour to Clan Shades!

[Ii Naomasa]

I was always someone who wasn't completely sold on the notion of the AI using the 'amphibious assault' feature for anything but movement of strategic units. Even though I'd sometimes get blindsided by such attack, it always seemed possible it came from aother source, despite a diplomat or some other spy in the landbased province it could've came from (and no army of that size ever seeming to walk through said province).

I'm now convinced the AI does it in at least the WE version. I was playing the Imagawa 1580 and had made some headway on Kyushu, grabbing and holding onto Chikuzen, Hizen, and Chikugo. With the other two provinces under my control, the only way to Hizen was by boat. I had all my Shinobi in the two border provinces and none in Hizen. That was my mistake, for apparently before I dropped my curtain across the NW corner of Kyushu, Shimazu apparently had placed a shinobi there and for the next two years, he sent a small force to attack Hizen every season (presumably, by boat from Satsuma). I don't know what suddenly got into his mind, but I couldn't believe it. He took it the first season, catching me unawares, but when a detachment from Chikuzen freed the province, they were assailed continuously. It was only when my conflicts in the east slowed and I could bring some forces to eat up a little of the rest of Kyushu did he give up the foolishness. Overall, though it was cool to see the AI do a maneuver that would have (had it been victorious) not only captured a province I let unprotected behind lines, but also would've stranded my Kyushu forces from reinforcements. It's a shame it's pretty easy to defend against computer attacks.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Believe me it happens.I lost my first campaign as Takeda to a Shimazu "Pearl Harbor" port attack in Aki.He had no province that abutted Aki.His Emissary had payed Aki a visit the turn before.All my best troop training facilities were in Aki.It is the only time I ever had it happen, because now I keep shinobi and ninja's in every port facility I own.I also keep a small garrison in the troop training castles to give me time to send a relief force.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[The_battlefield_geisha]

seems really odd that ive played so many games on hard and expert, NEVER protected my rear provinces and always build a ton of ports for cash and ive never been invaded by sea. I dont even leave ninja or shinobi in my rear provinces. Only on the frontline with borderforts to protect my leaders. Ive even seen his ambassadors strolling around in way back in my territory many times but i never pay any attention to them.

Sea invasion must be an incredibly rare event

[Hosakawa Tito]

You may be right BG,but this only occurs in the MI version.I've had it for 3 weeks,and have played maybe 4 campaigns so that's not a very big sample really.I think the conditions have to be just right.My guess is that the AI will port attack a castle that is a major training facility if left undefended by shinobi,ninja,or troops because of the koku you can pillage.The original STW didn't have this pillage bonus.
This may be why the AI doesn't port attack just any port,even though it may be a province like Musashi,high koku yield from farming,but no pillage value from training facilities.I don't think the AI port attack incentive is tactical,like a human player's would be,it appears to be the pillage value.This is a good theory to test.I'll have to try and recreate the conditions and see if it happens again.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[Lord Aeon]

I think that the province in question has to be 'attractive' to the CPU... if all you've got is a port and +20% farmland upgrade, it probably won't invade you.

Remember, the CPU probably needs to believe that the port invasion is worthwhile, it has to have a decent sized army in a province of its own WITH a port, the CPU can't be very busy with other military excursions at the time, and it has to know that your province is there and ungarrisoned by sending spies and such.

But it does happen. But you have to be really careless... if you want to try and induce one, start as one of the Eastern clans and hold a province like Hitatchi (with a large base income), upgrade all the farmlands, build lots of buildings and a port, and leave no counterspying or troops there and it will probably happen sooner or later.

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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[Lord Aeon]

And i think it was meant for use later on in the game, when there's few clans left and all have the bulk of their armies amassed in the center of the map, slugging it out. You could backdoor the enemy, cutting out the heart of his income by doing the death march through his provinces, burning and pillaging!

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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[Otokomi Innue]

I didn't know this was a bug. It makes a dandy of a surprise attack.

[Forward Observer]

Quote Originally posted by Otokomi Innue:
I didn't know this was a bug. It makes a dandy of a surprise attack.[/QUOTE]

Whether it was a bug or not, in the original STW, has been debated many times. With WE it is definitely a feature since it is referenced in the manual and they actually went to the trouble to add little port representations on the the map. This leads me to believe that it was never a bug in the first place.

Cheers