It\'s Official-- SP and MP Morale Systems are like Night and Day

[Khan7]

I have for some time been leaning towards those that have been saying that all of peoples explanations of why SP and MP morale were different due to unit types/unit honor etc. couldn't account for the difference, and that there must be something else going on here, were right. And now I have definitive proof.

While I have been working on my American Civil War mod, one of my biggest problems had been getting the units to retreat and rout as they would in a historical situation. I had so far set the honor level down to -8 (in the troopstats.txt file) for my riflemen, and things still didn't work right. They basically would stand and fight until they were down to about 10 guys and often even beyond that, unless they were involved in a point-blank shootout, in which case they behaved somewhat more reasonably. I was somewhat annoyed, but I decided to leave that problem to be fixed later.

Then I went and worked on a Campaign using my ACW units. I got it more or less finished, and went and decided I'd do a bit of playtesting. I get into my first battle, and start fighting it and notice something very strange. My riflemen start wavering as soon as they see the enemy, and rout as soon as he gets within 50 yards or so, without taking a single casualty the entire time. After a bit of this lunacy I quit out of it and came here to bring the truth to you all-- they ONLY changed MP morale, an action which is, at least from the historical perspective, and in many peoples eyes from the gameplay perspective too, inexplicable.

So now that this has been established, the discussion over morale can take perhaps a more directed and effective course.

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Khan7

[Puzz3D]

Well this is great news! It means the online multiplyer and custom battle can be adjusted without changing the single player campaign.

Thanks,
MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Khan7]

That's what it means-- IF CA gets around to doing it. But the solution that I've been toying with is simply souping down the honor level of units in the troopstats.txt file for online games. We would all get together and do testing and decide on a standard troopstats.txt file for online games that all people who want old morale would use, and then they'd have to change it out with their SP troopstats if they wanna do a campaign.

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Khan7

[Bohemond]

I think this is good news because I never play online .. as much as I was pissed off by the news of the changed morale system (without having ever played it admittedly ..), what Khan says would mean at least SP players don't have to wait for a patch.
Any comments .. are you absolutely sure, Khan? I ask you this because, after second reflection, your post hints that you only tested SP with your ACW mods, haven't ya?
Btw, what are you going to do with the unit sprites?

[MagyarKhans Cham]

still i believe it is most clear if we have an option button

no morale
old morale
new morale

[DoCToR]

Absolutely agree, SP and MP/custom battles have a completely different morale system...

as i have said in many other threads...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

DOC

[Algesan]

Cham, I am thinking the adjustable game morale, with adjustment shown in online game info, is probably best way to go to please most of the players here, except:

A) Is it even likely? The way the game is coded, it might not be something that can be implemented easily enough to be put in a patch.

B) How much complaining are we going to see over "honorable" (a.k.a. low morale) vs. "dishonorable" (a.k.a. high morale) players? I will freely admit that I've found myself to be a "dishonorable"(by some of the stuff I've read in this forum) red zone user in 3v3 fights when I'm on a flank. Is it something I am doing on purpose? Nope, I'm just moving up a group of units to secure a position that my opponent(s) is also trying to secure. I really doubt most players here would even bother complaining about it since my units end up back in the yellow as the armies come together.

Yes, this is something that annoys me, but I can see "Don't play with **** ****, they use X+2 morale instead of X morale like a "honorable" and "true" warrior would." Then why do you play them? No matter what we do, the buy your own army setup of online play means it is more of a fancy arcade game than a simulation. The difference being that in current online play you can build an army without context, while in campaigns (including the coop ones I've seen like Magyar's) there is some rational for the units.

Hmmmm, it might be interesting to see a random units button for online like there is for custom. True, you don't tend to get the best army with random, but you do get to see how well you play with the hand you are dealt, something many commanders have to do. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[MagyarKhans Cham]

ofcourse it should be clear when u joihn the game how the settings are, and above all after some months many dickheads have left and we are stuck with each other again and we know what is "norma;" and what not.

look we have No morale and Morale (new)already

how hard would it be to delete No Morale option and replace it with Morale Old (STW)

[Khan7]

I can't imagine adding a button being particularly hard, as really the problem could be solved anyway just through adjusting honor level in troopstats.txt. Until we get some sign from CA, I suggest that we all get organized and start working on a standard modification of troopstats to get the old morale back. Someone else I'm sure will take the leader/instigator role in this effort, but my e-mail is gengiskan0@cs.com and my ICQ 57947664 anyway.

I really think an effort like I described is the best option until we can get CA to move. Come one, it's not that hard, and it can provide a real solution.

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Khan7

[Nelson]

Khan7's discovery would explain my own experinces in SP where the behavior of troops has not seemed to change since installing MI.

A morale button, slidebar, whatever, should not be too hard to put in. Remember, the original game did not have a battle timer switch until we complained. The game should continue to play the way it always has in both SP and MP. That's how we like it and that's what people thought they were paying for.

[grapedog]

Perhaps put the slider into the host game options...that way the game host can decide the honor they both get in one single setting.

[TakeshidaSo]

MORALE>

Morale is increased by 2 points for each honor upgrade. MI has increased morale by 12 pts. Thats a morale increase equivalent to 6 honor upgrades, which is nearly triple that of a units base cost. This increase was to a system where 18 pts. is considered impetuous, and the range was from -4 morale for YA, to +8 morale for WM, and ND. For every 2 honor upgrades morale is raised by 4 pts., and the units cost is almost doubled (96%). Campaign costs, and base unit stats, are for H0 units. The cost of custom and online units is for an H2 unit, and so they have +4 to morale, and double the value of campaign units.

Solution:
Make the default campaign unit an H2 unit, and set the default morale in MI back 12 points.
Alternate:
Set the custom, and online default to H0, and lower MI morale settings by 8 pts.