What new units would u like 2 have in STW?

[Divine Wind]

I was thinking of some new units which would make the game more fun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I would really like 2 see seige weapons deployed in battle with castles and also perhaps some type of unit which involves muskets and horses *rubs hands together* :-)

[Zone]

How about mounted Kensi or ninjas? I reckon mounted gun units wuldn't be very accurate.

I suppose seige weapons might take the advantage away from the defenders slightly so the AI might be more likely to break sieges but it would make it far more easy to wait until the castle is about to fall and then slaughter the survivors without any casulties. Overall I'd say no to seige weapons.

------------------
Fight first, ask questions later.

[Satake]

How about elves and dwarves armed with Katanas? Gryphon riders? Orcs? Crusaders? Marmelukes ? British longbowmen? Angry shogun community mobs? EA Representatives?

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[solypsist]

I'm with Satake. We've had this conversation before, long ago before the expansion was around.
If you want lots of frivolous units, go play Starcraft

[Hertston]

Agreed.

The Mongols are a terrific addition - a contemporary opponent for the Japanese adds "hordes" to the game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

But... even the other new units we have with MI are pretty pointless additions - Rambo samurai (aka Kensai) and "battlefield ninja" ? - please..

The last thing the game needs is more units - what it does need is a little work on balancing those already in it.

[This message has been edited by Hertston (edited 09-09-2001).]

[jomni]

In a historical perspective, there's nothing more to add. They already added "legendary" units like Kensai and Ninjas. All I could think off are Cannons. I think some Japanese would have had those weapons but they weren't used often.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Well, Kensai are the "heroes" of legend in Japan - the ultimate aspiration of a samurai. As for battlefield ninja - they are not the "fantasy" units you seem to indicate - but rather a special ops type group for SPECIAL purpsoe use.

Try taking an all kensai or all BN army into combat and against an expert AI enemy or a human, and you won't make the same mistake ever again.

You will not find any disagreement on this board that there are other things that need attention rather than addition of new units. However, the balancing that went into the Kensai and the BN, along with the Mongol units, add a richness and tactical depth to the game that was not present before.

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[solypsist]

When it was first announced that the expansion would contain battlefield ninja and kensai, many veterans of the original game were, to put it mildly, skeptical; myself included. We all complained about how these units were included as a nod to the "starcraft crowd" and bemoaned the fate of "what could be a serious wargame."

But now that the game is out, fewer have complained. At least compared to how things were looking at the time. While these two new units are less practical than most would like, their presence isn't as strongly felt as some of us had thought. Monks still rule the game, just like before, and the system still seems more balanced than not, though the Naginata Cav is working quite nicely. The addition of K and BN has hardly changed the style of combat in STW. Even more units would be just as rarely used, so forget it.

[Koga No Goshi]

Is it just me, or in Sengoku Jidai era games do you guys use no cavalry except Naginata Cavalry? They're cheaper than Yari cav and much more effective and durable, and kill a lot faster than Heavy Cav. I really find little or no use for the other two anymore, though I guess Yari Cav's speed is useful in Mongol games, but I really avoid Mongol games.



------------------
Koga no Goshi

"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.

[Shoko]

Quote Originally posted by Satake:
How about elves and dwarves armed with Katanas? Gryphon riders? Orcs? Crusaders? Marmelukes ? British longbowmen? Angry shogun community mobs? EA Representatives?

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]LOL Satake! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifim with u on that!

[Nelson]

Well, we could use ashigaru archers but I'd rather SUBTRACT units instead of INVENTING more.

[kain]

Pistoliers would be cool.
Mounted samurai with 2 pistols - they could shoot both at close range before backing off (just like skirmishers) to reload (which would take a long time, naturally, I'm sure it would be pretty hard to reload while on horseback).

Maybe some Samurai crossbows that didn't have a screwed up firing/reload animation (is it just me or do Ash Xbow units look messed up when they fire?)

But anything other than that may ruin the rock/paper/scissors thing that STW has got going.

[Obake]

:rolleyes

Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread Kain?

Pistoliers?!?!?!

@#!%$@!*!$@^#%^&%@!@

I would imagine you want to mount them on Pegasi as well so that they can take to the air while they re-load. Or maybe we should just turn this into Pancho Villa: TotalWar

Geesh!

------------------
Obake

I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

[solypsist]

LOL Glad to see ya back Obake.

Hmmm...your little reply may have planted a new idea if the heads of EA see it.
Chiapas: Total War



[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Ratta Yamamoto]

I can't think of any other units but I think that all hires should be 11 men heavy calvery unit like the Daimyo. Because in real life there were hardly any hires that run into battlefield with Yari Samurai units. All generals back then were on horses otherwise they would die in 2 seconds in the battle.

------------------
Every samurai heart is their sword, to lose their sword is to die.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

Originally posted by Koga No Goshi:
Is it just me, or in Sengoku Jidai era games do you guys use no cavalry except Naginata Cavalry? They're cheaper than Yari cav and much more effective and durable, and kill a lot faster than Heavy Cav. I really find little or no use for the other two anymore, though I guess Yari Cav's speed is useful in Mongol games, but I really avoid Mongol games

_____________________________________________

I mostly play SP campaigns during the Sengoku Jidai period. The first cav that i equip my armies with, are nagi cav because of the effectiveness/cost + high moral bonus (+8 like WM), they are my primary flankers and monk killers.

I still use other cav but to a lesser extent. My second cav addition is Yari: No other cav is as effective as Yari cav to kill off routing units, so i always try to keep one in each main army. By killing off a lot of the AI controlled units, i lessen the chance of facing big multiple armies (reinforcements while defending don't bother me as much as the tedious task of hunting down reinforcements while attacking).

When i start to have the spare koku, i usually add one cav arch (that will replace one foot arch unit) and i guess like Ratta's thoughts on heirs, i train heavy cav unit when my heir comes of age. I like to have heir's in Heavy cav units.

Heavy cav like foot nagis, kensai or battlefield Ninja's are only usefull in some specific situations,and this only if they have the gold armour.

[Tsumi]

I agree with KumaRatta Yamamoto. I usally keep 1 YC and 1 CA in each main army. Typical army:

1 Daimyo or Heir
1 YC
1 CA
2 SA
2 YS
1 NC
8 NS or WM

[Khan7]

Well, here's the way the Cav breaks down--

YC -- Fast, superior in Cav vs. Cav (SLAUGHTERS HC)

HC -- Medium speed, overall best in combat, is only trumped by YC and YS

NC -- Slower than HC, less manueverable than all, less armor than HC.. loses to HC, loses to monks, overall less powerful in combat..
BUT-- they hold their own against YS (but still barely lose), and YC (this matchup is very close).

So basically Naginata Cavalry is the slowest and least manueverable cav, has less armor and less overall combat effectiveness than Heavy Cavalry-- but they still whup up more or less in melee, they are cheap, and there are no units that absolutely trump them.

So NC's advantages are flexibility and cost-effectiveness-- certainly not power. I find myself using them quite a bit. But I have no illusions about their shortcomings.

Matt

[kain]

ok Obake I know nothing about samurai history anyway, but considering we have Korean skirmishers that can kill half a naginata regiment in one volley, and Kensai that can absorb 200 musket bullets and not die Pistoliers wouldn't unbalance the game any further. But I trust you if you say they would not fit in with the whole samurai thing (makes sense, not very honourable).

[This message has been edited by kain (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Catiline]

Actually i took an all BN and K army into the field today, and won, 199-1. Mind you it was a bridge defence... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif I still tend to use YC if only because you get them quicker and htey do quick kill routing aries which can be very useful early on.

I still want battlefield scouts though and the ability to turn of the mouse help that tells you what a unit miles across the battle field is. Scouts with enough sense to keep out of trouble would mean you could advanve and see what was coming but ohterwise you could only guess at numbers until the enemy got closer.

------------------
Oderint dum metuant