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View Full Version : The computer\'s SUPER archers



De Bullseye
07-15-2001, 01:07
Howdy all.

I've been playing "Normal" level lately vs the comp and it seems like the comp's archers are a HELL of a lot more effective than anything I can create.

I will use my last battle as an example. Computer had 203 men, and I had 800+. Comp was in 2 groups. First group 11 HC with 12 archers, second group was made up of 3 groups of archers (super-human archers I was to find out)

I used a unit of YC to wipe out the first group. No problem, I lost 5 guys and I killed the enemy diamo.

For the second enemy group, I moved up an open ranked group of YS. This was my 'cannon fodder' group (or arrow fodder as the case may be). I stood this group of40 under a serious hail of arrows at what I guestimated was near extreme range on the second enemy group.

After a couple minutes, I started moving the YS back (what was left of them). The second enemy group followed them (continuing to shoot at them) until the 3 groups of enemy archers were in the open on a flat portion of the field. I then charged 1 YC(175 tot men) into each of the 3 enemy archers and had a group of monks (60)running up as support. The YC charged in open ranks and then closed just before making contact.

Hand-to-hand the archers slaughtered the YC. This seem incredible since YC usually will easily destroy archers on a flat surface. My monks (honor 5) RAN AWAY after receiving one volly from a group of 30-40 archers (only lost one guy in that volly, but by the time they'd turned around and run away they had lost about 20 guys).

Meanwhile, while this was going on, I had moved a YC(60 a+1), SA(60 d+1), and a YS(60) in behind the enemy archers. My SA had high ground so I let them fire away at a group of the enemy archers. The single group of enemy archers returned fire. I let these two groups go at it until my guys ran out of ammo. The enemy group CONTINUED to fire (one of the same 3 archer groups that had been firing the whole BATTLE!). I ordered my YC and YS to attack. They closed without getting hit by enemy arrows (enemy unit was still targetting my now out of arrows SA).

The YC hit first from the side. The enemy archers slaughtered them in hand-to-hand. The 20 YC remaining fled just as the YS contacted the enemy archer group (about 20 guys in this enemy group now). The 20 enemy archers SLAUGHTERED my 60 YS. 14 remaining YS fled.

By this point I was incredulous. It seemed like the computer was cheating. I ordered a full-scale assualt on the 3 enemy archer groups. My remaining, unscathed forces were entirely monks of 0-5 honor. The enemy fired on the monks the WHOLE time they closed and then were killing monks 1for1 (ie I lost 1 monk for every archer I killed).

FINALLY the enemy archers broke and ran. Only two groups left. 10 in one and 8 in the other. I chased them off the SE side of the map, but the game wouldn't end, so I spread my guys out and started checking all the groups of trees for enemy stragglers.

Well... the enemy had run off the SE corner of the map and re-appeared in the SW corner in a grove of trees. Same guys.. 1 group of 10, one group of 8. I know these enemy archers were NOT in those trees earlier, cuz my YC (20) and YS (14) had retreated to those trees and had remained there until I ordered them on the straggler hunt.

I charged ALL my remaining units in. The enemy sent a stream of arrows at them (the comp's UNLIMITED arrows!). Just as my leading groups of units closed, time ran out and I lost.

Ok, so what the Hell was I doing wrong here?

Suggestions?

(o)

Sengoku
07-15-2001, 01:35
Better to go out with a bang than a whimper, tho eh? Seriously, I have never encountered anything like this before, all I can think is that the enemy archers were of pretty high honour (like 9, perhaps), although one would assume they would lose this when their Daimyo died. It is possible that they gained honour by killing or routing your men, so they just got better and better.

High honour archers are normally very careful with arrows, i.e they will take accurate shots to minimise wastefulness. If your cavalry was low-honour it may explain why they were massacred although on level ground it would seem the odds were in your favour.

I have seen units rout as a result of heavy archer fire, but honour 5 warrior monks? If your cav routed thru them it may explain the low morale, but I would have thought they could keep their nerve.

About their reappearing, I have no idea about this, most probably a rare and unfortunate game glitch. Or perhaps the AI thought it could cheat without you noticing.

The apparent infinite supply of arrows could have been the result of impeccably managed archer fire by the AI.

NinjaKilla
07-15-2001, 02:24
While we're on the subject, does anyone know the difference between: easy, normal, hard, etc levels?

They all seem pretty similar to me.

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- Our girls fall for samurai and they'll go chasing after them.
- If the bandits come they'll cut our heads off. We'll worry about the girls later.

From: Seven Samurai

Koga No Goshi
07-15-2001, 02:37
Bullseye,

I'm not sure what happened to you, but I know some screwy things happen between the difficulty levels. Now that you can set different difficulty levels with the 1.13 (or is it 1.12? I get them confused) patch in custom mode, try taking one yari sam against one yari sam on easy and then on hard. There is a difference, even when both times they hit in a face-to-face charge. You would think there shouldn't be. I noticed when I started normal games after conquering easy, my yari sam (and other units, too) took a lot more kills and did a lot less damage than in easy. I thought difficulty level was only supposed to apply to how "smart" the computer AI was. Whereas in easy you can easily break through an enemy defending say, a bridge, with 3 yari sam or a warrior monk, in normal or harder you take much heavier casualties and then rout much easier. That's my experience, anyway.



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Koga no Goshi

"Nandai"
Since time began
the dead alone know peace.
Life is but melting snow.

Yoko Kono
07-15-2001, 17:42
in easy i believe in tactical battles u gain a hidden honor bonus of 1, giving increased attacking and defensive bonuses + morale, while at expert this is reversed with the computers men receiving this hidden honor bonus

Yoko

CeltiberoSkullXIII
07-16-2001, 18:43
http://gifanimados.ya.com/smileis/pequenos/eek2.gif

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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!" http://gifanimados.ya.com/terror/calaveras_banderas/flag_wht_blkbns_clr.gif

Maltz
07-16-2001, 21:22
Bullseye: I guess it is because your YC got scared by the "potential" number of enemy they have to face? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Vanya
07-16-2001, 22:41
Looks like somebody ate their wheaties...

CaptMac
07-16-2001, 23:43
Bullseye
I believe the enemy archers had the gods smiling on them this battle http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
You didn't mention clans or armour. Were the archers Imagawa from Totomi with high honor and improved armour?
Don't know what to make of your H5 monks routing..were they too far from Taisho, very tired?
I don't think I have ever had enemy re-appear elsewhere after routing off battlefield...that is wrong! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif


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The only thing you have to regret are the chances not taken.
Expect the unexpected and take in air.

Vanya
07-17-2001, 00:48
Obviously, those archers went with Buddha's compassion...!

Shimazu2
07-18-2001, 10:24
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif

Shuko
07-18-2001, 17:38
could understand enemy W/M giving your troops hell but archers ? Very strange http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

HATAMOTOKILL
08-01-2001, 05:30
i still cant understand why honour doesnt effect the hit to kill ratio for guns like archers? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

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Hato!!!
genie of the lands!!!
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/contrib/legionxs/ninja1.gif

De Bullseye
09-15-2001, 04:58
Forgot to mention...

I replayed this battle and easily defeated the bad guys. Must have been a quirk the first time.

Khan7
09-15-2001, 05:10
LOFL! That's funny s*..

Matt

solypsist
09-15-2001, 05:23
there's a thread i posted about the high effectiveness of ronin archers. i've played several campaign games and have found, so far, that other clans' archers were about average shots. if you fighting ronin archers, you were going to have a hard time from the start.

Shoko
09-15-2001, 05:44
Quote Originally posted by solypsist:
there's a thread i posted about the high effectiveness of ronin archers. Where is it M8[/QUOTE]

Murmandamus
09-15-2001, 06:57
Also, if you have the original STW stay out of the way of fleeing troops. They will slaughter anything they run through. Fortunately this has been fixed in the expansion.