Stats10.bat: Another Dishonourable Cheat?

[FuGu_HoSoKaWa]

Has the dishonour of online gaming been increased once again by the introduction of this tool for changing stats. mid-game, notably by increasing archer range?

[Khan7]

Someone else deal with this. I don't have time.

Suffice it to say that you are full of crap and you don't know it and even though you don't know it you shouldn't be so belligerent.

Matt

[FuGu_HoSoKaWa]

Your insulting and impolite reply is most astonishing.

A tool that is described as enabling the changing of game stats. in mid-game does *seem* like cheating to the non-expert, especially if the person making the changes has an army that might be favored by those changes and is in an online game ...

Please explain to this non-expert why it should not be considered to be a kind of cheating.


FuGu

[Khan7]

Sorry, it's just a lot of people come on here and rant about this.

Basically if peoples stats don't match, the game crashes.

Also, with Yuuki's program stats can only be changed from the lobby.

Matt

[solypsist]

AFAIK, online cheating with the stats tool doesnt work. it's only good for single player. check it out yourself and see.


[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 09-14-2001).]

[FuGu_HoSoKaWa]

Good! I hope that it does not work for MP, because it would be a shame for such a great game to go the way of certain others ...


FuGu

[The Daimyo]

Perhaps next time you and others will bother to test their hypothesis before they post such random crap as well. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

We don't need the general public losing faith in the mod and tool makers here. As far as I can see, we're all decent people who strive to make things for the good of everyone. Testing things out is a prerequisite.



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The Daimyo
Miaowara "Kakizaki" Tomokato
@ http://www.planettotalwar.com

[Erado San]

The difference with a mod and a cheat is that a cheat works where one player forces setttings on another player without the other player knowing it, while a mod only works when two or more players CHOOSE to play with it.

Khan, if a patron does not know what a certain mod is for, replying the way you do does not encourage people to try them. Maybe think twice next time...

[theforce]

Well even if that applied you get more archer range and accuracy but reduced morale so it would be somewhat even.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com

[JAG]

yeah. . i think it can only be a good thing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Watch out for that. . . . . Dam too late!. . . the story of my life!

WarlordWarrior

[Tangent]

Fu Gu:

There are generally two reasons why mod files exist in the Total War community. Cheating is not one of them.

1) Players have a natural instinct to learn how a game works and want to experiment with it.

2) Players may not be happy with certain stats of the game from an accuracy or playability perspective.

In the case of this file, there may be particular reasons for it. This is because the current version of the Warlord Edition / Mongol Invasion made a major change in the morale values from Shogun: Total War. This led to to the destruction of the morale system at the lower end of the honor spectrum, where the morale system shows most of its functionality.

Most of the expert STW tactical players were playing in the lower spectrum of the honor system, precisely in order to have the morale system as a part of their play. WE/MI in its current form has deprived these expert players of the ability to use the skills that they have honed in hundreds, even thousands, of battles and takes away a major source of historical accuracy that the game possessed. Historically battles were about morale much more than they were about casualties. While I believe that it is still too much of a compromise between the old and the new, this file is partly an an attempt to restore some funtionality to the morale system.

-Tangent

P.S. I am not an expert player but I am an experienced player who values realism when it can be added.

Khan,

Your behaviour is terribly shameful for all our community, and I think all agree here.

Please show a bit respect for whom, unlike you, don't know some things; and not only in this context.

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Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[Gothmog]

Khan7's reply does seem a bit harsh, but the tone of FuGu's original post doesn't sound so friendly/reasonable either. I am not into mod stuff, but if sword-dojo put that troop-stat file on the home page, you know that it's there for a valid reason. For no-honorable community will advertise cheat code/program that way.

The take-home message is that one shouldn't jump into conclusions, should think twice before publisize one's unfound idea, also shouldn't rush into using too sensitive wording such as "dishonour" (use "not very honourable" or the like instead), hehe.



[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 09-14-2001).]

[Anssi Hakkinen]

I deleted... a double post.

While FuGu-san's initial comment was uninformed, and while it indirectly implied dishonor, and indeed support for cheating, among the ranks of www.totalwar.org (http://www.totalwar.org) , I am willing to believe it was a matter of thoughtless self-expression rather than a deliberate attempt at insult.

However, if Khan7-san was indeed busy enough to not to have time to devote to "morons", perhaps he would have been well versed to tend to those matters that crowded his schedule, rather than take the time to make a post that had no other purpose than offend another patron and damage his first impression of the Sword Dojo. And I can fairly say that, unlike newbies, Khan7-san has exceeded any tolerance for offensive behavior there may be. Please get a grip. Thank you.

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"When there is something to be said, it is better if it is said right away. If it is said later, it will sound like an excuse. Moreover, it is occasionally good to really overwhelm your opponent. Also, in addition to having spoken sufficiently, it is the highest sort of victory to teach your opponent something that will be to his benefit. This is in accordnace with the Way".
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

[Vanya]

"War is the ultimate competitive arena."
-- Source unknown

[Khan7]

Good lord people, I guess a lotta peeps haven't picked up on the fact that I stopped even TRYING to please the establishment here LOOong ago.

I just post what I think and try to be as honorable as I see fit; and accept the fact that every so often I'll be wrong; and accept the fact that due to ill will I've generated, rightly or wrongly, between me and certain individuals, I can expect to be singled out whenever possible.

It really doesn't bother me :-)

Matt

[Catiline]

I'm sorry you see us as the establishment Khan. However that sort of response isn't on. It's not about pleasing anyone, it's about basic politeness and decency. Typing 'you both need the same stats file or your game will crash' would've been somewhat swifter than what you did resond with. Noone wants to bear you any ill will and if you could manage to behave in a manner appropriate to the way 99% of patronns do you wouldn't have to feel so stigmatised. I'd advise loosing hte chip, at the moment all you're short of is hte plot.

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Oderint dum metuant

[This message has been edited by Catiline (edited 09-14-2001).]

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Indeed, this might appear as if we're "singling you out" - after three administrators making basically the same note on your first post, and then a moderator and one of the administrators plus whoever else will wander along replying to your rebuttal. I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I believe that people - at least among the staff - paid attention to your post not because it was your post, but because it was a violation, and because they all happened by. Similarly, I believe that whatever response your rebuttal gets, it will be because blaming the staff for being unfair has historically always garnered disapproval. I apologise for the semblance of an overkill effect.

However, despite that, I sincerely hope that you at least *considered* the *possibility* that the comments made would have been made for some other reason than the conspiracy that is out to get you. As Catiline-san so well put it, disestablishmentarism has nothing to do with basic politeness and decency. If that is beyond you, or if you consider the Dojo's rules of civility the "establishment" to be overthrown, perhaps you've come to the wrong place.

However, you did apologize in your second post in this thread. I'll mark that with a green pen.

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"When there is something to be said, it is better if it is said right away. If it is said later, it will sound like an excuse. Moreover, it is occasionally good to really overwhelm your opponent. Also, in addition to having spoken sufficiently, it is the highest sort of victory to teach your opponent something that will be to his benefit. This is in accordnace with the Way".
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

"I just post what I think and try to be as honorable as I see fit"

No Khan , it is not how "you see fit". when you signed in as a member here, you agreed to follow forum rules. Is there something that you do not understand in the words "NO FLAMING"?

I for one, believe that you break those rules on purpose and indeed, you do not care about the rules every patron here is asked to follow, "it does not bother you".

As you pointed out, this is not the first time, that you are warned about this, not by a long shot.

I agree with you, warnings and asking you to stop only have a very limited effect on your posting, and this only for a very short time.

I personnaly think, that other measures seem more and more appropriate in your case.

[Khan7]

An organized conspiracy to heckle me? hehe, THAT would make a good movie :-P

So would Khan Guevera..

But for real, I'm not here to argue this with u guys, I've said all I'm going to say.

Matt

[Catiline]

good, seeing as how there's no argument http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Oderint dum metuant