A call t o all veterans

[UglyElmo]

Hi guys, I know that most of veteran Shogun players are dissappointed with the new expansion (so am I), but while there is any hope of a patch being made to address our concerns, you need to make a showing in the MI lobby and continue playing the game. The reason for this is: there are a lot of new players who, without our guidance to set the rules for acceptable etiquette, fair play, etc. are beginning to create an unfriendly, unfair, and abusive atmosphere. New people who really want to learn the game, are being verbally abused and are being ignored because their honor is low and the "ladder climbers" refuse to play them. Since there are so few people on the MI server now, these good intentioned new players are beginning to leave because of these few abusive people. It would be a shame to lose these players.
I play this game, because of the online friendships I have with most of you veterans as well as the fun atmosphere that was the norm on the old server. We need you to help preserve this atmosphere on the new server, so please stop by and play a few games of the new expansion with some of the newer players and let them see how good and fun our community really is. The current split of the community will not continue for long I am afraid, with most leaving Shogun for good if the community does not come together soon. Thanks

Well, I'm playing MI online for only a few days and I can say that actually the player's honour points shown next to the name are doing more hell than heaven.

A very LARGE percentage of players (who are new) are using High-Honour Ashigaru hordes - which are unbalanced and unfair as the monks are in STW. And unfortunately these new players aren't getting ANY message that what they're doing is not fair for a fun game.

With Yuuki's stats or Yama's stats (still in development) we can do really great fun games, and even involve new players in them.

I constantly swap between MI and STW, but frankly, old good STW is just more fun.

Tera


------------------
Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[Yoko Kono]

Quote Originally posted by UglyElmo:
..I play this game, because of the online friendships..[/QUOTE]

hmm
i reckon its got more to do with the sponsorhip money you get from nike... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
i know you really hate us all
its just a big act
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Seriously tho i must agree
the first online game i played was smg then shogun
both games `lobbies` were full of friendly helpful people
while playing stw i tried a few other games and was either thrashed badly given no help advise later only slagged off and when i tried fps games i was hounded off because i was no good. when i asked were servers for newbies at such games were i was told to **** off.
stw had, when i first started, only a few people who exploited newbies for honor but still at least gave lots of advise after the battle. within hours of playing online i had people explain all that i needed to know
my first big game i benefitted from help from top players who treated me as equal
very few players have such a community spirit. i think the fact shogun the game emphises honorable conduct its players also act in such a way. The fact newbies are now spoling the mi server saddens me and i would also urge not only the veterans, but all the dencent people who have helped myslef and others out in the past to continue using the mi server to act as an example and hopefully encourage the new wave of flamers to either clean up the act or clear off

Yoko

[Jaeger]

We were all new once remember. Demon was kind enough to allow me to keep draining his honour by losing to him in my early days http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif dont claim to be gr8 now still learning myself and willing to play anyone new or old. Tho u just have to catch me online which is becoming increasingly rare http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif
Damn it just keeps getting uglier round here ! hehe

ps do agree with tera on the honour being next to names. My honour is quite high , tho now i cant go online without being challenged by abusive hill campers and then being called a coward when i decline.

generally the word is not appropriate for the points when most people who have high honour have absolutely no honour.

just an afterthought. cyaz online peeps

[TakeshidaSo]

No matter how good an example you set, you wont establish decent order.The chaos that this games Competitive\Rank database causes, is inherent to it. It's not because a player's Honor can now be seen.

If your a real vet you know; that the Competitive\Rank database has caused behavioral problems over the length of a year, and that it has made people stop playing the game. Rank only concerns a fraction of online players. A real vet can easily decide what someone's worth for themselves.

[UglyElmo]

Yup Yoko, you're on to me! If I can't keep my army routing on a regular basis, then I won't be able to justify my very large Nike contract!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif The ladder system, and the new posting of honor points next to everyone's names are creating a problem similar to the old stw ladder ranking system. That is why I stopped playing competitive matches about 4 or 5 months ago. Most of the veterans who are on the MI server do not play comps anymore, and hopefully people will realize that gaining a ranking on the ladder does nothing for your reputation or make the games any more fun. It is just disheartening to see it happening all over again.

[TakeshidaSo]

Ten). RANKING>
The chaos that this games Competitive\Rank database causes, is inherent to it. No matter how good an example you set, you wont establish decent order. It doesnt help for a player's Honor to be seen. The Competitive\Rank database has caused behavioral problems over the length of a year, and it has made people stop playing the game online. That's simply counter-productive. Rank only concerns a fraction of online players. You can easily decide what someone's worth for yourself.
Solution:
Remove the Competitive\Rank database.
Alternate:
Dont show player's Honor in the lobby.

[theforce]

Well the expansion pack was a step forward. Well the FMV is better! the graphics are better, the sound is better. As for the difficulty of the game l must say that a patch would easily make it harder.

------------------
Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com

[DragonCat]

Hey Elmo!

Sorry I haven't been on in the past several weeks, combination of computer problems, vacation, work around the house and visitors.

I was on a lot the first several weeks and have every intention of returning. I do like playing comp games, and would play just about anyone (unless they had proved themselved dishonorable). You can tell because my last few wins pushed my honor down LOL!

Anyways, I played with a lot of newbies and was happy to give them advice, tactical hints, etc. and will continue to do so.

I look forward to meeting you some more online- we'll get this straightened out, you'll see!

And I want to try some of the games I thought up (see the thread Mongol Bowling), especially the Mongol Races!

------------------
DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

[JAG]

Quote Originally posted by Jaeger:
Tho u just have to catch me online which is becoming increasingly rare http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif[/QUOTE]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif m8 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif don't go http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif i know the feeling i am getting challenged more and more now by ppl with 20k game on 4th or shinano etc and they don't like it when u decline. . but don't hang up ur boots. . there r more women out there to charm jaeg m8 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

plus i agree with u elmo! i am on sometimes but at the moment with the morale i prefere playing Counter Strike instead. . but it aint half as fun as a good old shogun game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif




------------------

Watch out for that. . . . . Dam too late!. . . the story of my life!

WarlordWarrior

[The Critter Speaks]

..just wana clear somethin up in my mind....we as a comunity asked CA to be able to see hounors in MI at the start of a game if l remember correctly...as for folks bein ass's and hounor hogs..well l have a spare name or two that l keep espeacialy for these folks.....so be nice ya never know.. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[shingenmitch2]

Hi Elms --

Don't worry, the newbies will learn to play only friendlies like in the old STW.

BTW that's still where I spend most of my time. Hope to catch u boys there playing the REAL art of war http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. at least until I see a patch. Anyway Kryp and Krast and the Dreads still around there.

[LordTed]

I saw the word veteran....

I dont have the MI yet because they havent sent it to me yet from the tenki 1v1. I wont play it until i get it though the post. I havent played much shogun lately but when my MI comes i will probably play back to my obsesive nature between college.

Quote Originally posted by LordTed:
I saw the word veteran....

I dont have the MI yet because they havent sent it to me yet from the tenki 1v1. I wont play it until i get it though the post. I havent played much shogun lately but when my MI comes i will probably play back to my obsesive nature between college.[/QUOTE]

Ack, LordTed. You'de better go and just buy it from your local store. If an free EA copy ever arrives, you will have have to wait more. Other winners of tourneys didn't receive anything too and many beta testers where promised copies which never arrived.

Tera



------------------
Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[Hertston]

A worrying post, UglyElmo.

I've just come back to Shogun with the expansion (after a long and enjoyable break playing Combat Mission), and am still cleaning the rust of my sword before venturing online again. The game had a terrific online crowd before, and it will be a great shame if that changes. The vets can stop that happening... but only by being there. Newbies are by their very nature impressionable, and will adopt the tactics that beat THEM. If those tactics happen to be a high honour ashigaru horde - that's what they'll play too unless you folks are here to help them out, show them how it should be done, and exemplify that "honour" has nothing to with "ranking".

Personally, I always preferred friendlies anyway.. this game is all about historical atmosphere, a good fight, and a bit of fun - not trying to use any trick the game allows to climb the ladder.

[RageMonsta]

See honour?????

Only if you can see inside a person...

Rage not played comp for a long time....seen it done it might we say...

Yes Elmo your right...and in many ways the same thing is happening on the 'REAL' shogun server....the verterans/semi vets are out numbered there also....

I will not bother again with the MI till the patch....and when the patch is released we will have the last laugh....let the unwise learn C&C rush tactics....they will be shocked at how a true player does battle when the morale is corrected.

I will say this though....veterans come back to the old server and wait.....and if and when they release a patch we move over and and remove these rice farming idiots within the day....they either behave or we take their heads and add it to the soup.

Elmo come back to REAL shogun I have a job offer for you....and it pays more than Nike (...your guys didnt run once they had scooters!)

[Shoko]

Ive had MI a few weeks now and still cant bring myself away from STW not that im any good,not even played it yet only in custom battle 2 check units out...So just as well i suppose,the MI has just turned into a nightmare,for u top gamers http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gifHonour on player ladder looks good,makes u fell better than others http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gifnot me great fun make friends,have a laugh why o why do we always have those who want 2 spoil it! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
Those players who act in that way should just black list um!I dont mean that in a nasty way either,just pisses me off!
Lets all get along http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gifenjoy have fun and learn from each other...
The world can be so evil yet so nice...
Sorry 2 ramble on http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Shoko Emperor
Die by the Sword
http://hatamotokill.homestead.com/files/Skeleton3.gif

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

I only play friendlies also, this way nobody gets pissed off at me when some nights i try some weird unit combinations (like no missile fire at all etc...) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[grapedog]

Quote Originally posted by KumaRatta Yamamoto:
I only play friendlies also, this way nobody gets pissed off at me when some nights i try some weird unit combinations (like no missile fire at all etc...) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[/QUOTE]

friendlies....?

people you know already, or certain clans that have a good rep?

[UglyElmo]

LordTed: I talked to Ritchie and he has informed me that he has sent emails to EA asking for the promised games for tourney winners but they have yet to reply or send the games. Seems they once again do not stand by their developers and committments.
TO Grape: By friendlies, Ratta means that he only plays games on the friendly setting so that the outcome will not be reflected to his or his opponents honor rating. Comp or Competitive games count to adding or subtracting from your honor rating.
To Dragoncat: Miss ya mate! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I was not referring to you or to the others that play anyone in comp games. I was referring to those that only play high rated players and esc out or bad mouth others when they win/lose.
To Monsta: My scooters were fine until it rained then the wheels rusted and my army had to run very quickly to escape certain death! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
To Hertston and Shoko:
I will still play on the new server, and I have found an army that will kill any ashi rushers I run into. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I am still refining an army to win against an experienced mongol general. The best way to not be as dissappointed in the new game is to change your mindset. I now look at ashigaru as the "new monks" of shogun. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif They are good but not unbeatable. Just ask MajorDump what happened when he tried to ashi rush me the other night. HEHE

[Kocmoc]

hi guys,

i dont play shogun, since 1 week or so...
im bored of this game(still love old STW)
but this MI is just stupid!!

...u could saw many posts about this matter...

if they change it, i will come back and test it if its ok, i´ll start to play again, if not....i play other games...

at least i played, my 200 games of MI, mostly friendly...most with other names...

like Taifun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
some players, wasnt friendly to me, some of the vets too http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif im very disapointed!!!
i saw lately, some average player who got the top10 lists, they only play for the NR.1
spot, well this isnt my way....

i remember the beginning of STW, there was many freindly and helpfull guys...
now where u dont need many skills, a lot of newbies got big heads...and some of the older players(dont want to say vets) got big heads too or sitting on a cloud...

well, much fnu with this....but not with me!!!


kocmoc

[ELITEofGAZOZ]

Elmo I agree to you suggestion:

ALL OLD PLAYERS COME AND PLAY IN NEW MI

THE NEW MI HAS MORE STRATEGICAL DEPTH AS YOU SUPPOSE EVEN WITH THE NEW MORALE SETTINGS

THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING

But LOL I think you guys are very contratictory in one point concerning the honour.

For example I don´t understand Mikes intentions: He says honour means nothing but at the same time he moans if one player gets honour by cheating (play against himself on two PCs) or if a newbee is on the top. I suppose Mike looks always with one eye to the top 100 list...don´t you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Hey people:
I don´t care of the honour so I don´t mind if anyone has more than me, regardless how he get it and how good he really is.

Stop beeing so inconsistent.

BTW. Tera, there is an easy way to break an Yari Ashi Rush...

[ELITEofGAZOZ]

[Kraellin]

elm,

have you changed schedules again? i've been in and out of stw and mi servers and havent seen ya. i also sent a request for authorization on icq but havent received that either. lemme know when yer around, bubba, and i'll be there.

bout the only time i play comps is when testing something that really needs a comp game to test. last one i played was with yuuki when we wanted to make sure that troopstats.txt alterations would work with comp games as well as friendlies...he ended up giving me a couple honor points for that one.

i've also been jumping around from the old to the new server with we/mi. boy, is that ever a pain in the butt. i do hope they combine these servers. i know some folks are running 2 copies of we/mi, one set up for each server.

as for bait and badger players, i just put em on ignore...you know, the guys who bait you or badger you to play and then call you coward or something when you dont. lol. like i want to associate with this person. this is an old, old trick. if you lose they invalidate you, if you win they invalidate you. *yawn* some folks just arent worth knowing.

as for beating the ashi rush, someone send me mail, plz.

also, take heart. there are a number of folks working on a number of mods to bring we/mi back to something closer to stw and quite possibly this info can be tested, sent to CA and a patch made from this.

having the honor points displayed HAS eliminated one old annoyance. you dont hear folks asking others what their honor is now. but you do tend to get more private message challenges. it would be nice if there was a setting in the foyer for disallowing being private messaged unless you had them in your selected list. there is little enough space in that message area to read the stuff you do want to see, let alone being private messaged from 'advertisers'. hehe...the junk mail of online play ;)

K.


------------------
I'm sorry, but i never apologize.

[UglyElmo]

I will be on my old shift come monday Kraellin, so we can start to play again. As for icq, let me check it and see why you haven't come up yet. Maybe my wife, who isn't familiar with it, erased your message. LOL
HI GAZ!: Good to hear from ya on this forum! You are a ronin do to the low number of posts in this forum. As you post more your status will be update. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I still think that the old stw is a better game, but I have found this game more of a challenge since you have to plan your army and your tactics more carefully, because if you make a mistake, even a newbie has a chance of winning now. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Being a professional newbie myself, it even gives me a chance to win every now and then.
PS. Kraellin next time I see you on the new server, I will show you how to beat the ashi rush. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Eventually, as I learn the nuances of the new game, I will begin posting info. such as this to help out everyone.

[TakeshidaSo]

A STW YA with 6 Honor upgrades would cost 753 koku.
It would get 3 attack, and defense increases, plus 12 morale.
Melee.2.Defense.2.Armor.2.Morale.8.

A MI YA with 3 Weapon and Armor upgrades costs 246 koku.
It would recieve 3 attack, armor, and defense increases.
Melee.2.Defense.2.Armor.5.Morale.8.

These values are for campaign units, of course, because online units start with H2 units as defaults. But, its obvious, values have more than tripled.

A MI YS with one Honor upgrade would cost 280 koku.
It would recieve one melee increase, and 2 morale pts.
Melee.1.Defense.2.Armor.2.Morale.16.

The range of armor has increased from (1-5) to (1-Eight) , and you can add 3 armor, and defense pts. to a unit for 75% above base cost. Whereas 2 Honor increases would raise the cost 96% above base, and gives Melee 1 pt., Defense 1 pt., and morale 4 pts.

[LordTed]

Quote Originally posted by UglyElmo:
LordTed: I talked to Ritchie and he has informed me that he has sent emails to EA asking for the promised games for tourney winners but they have yet to reply or send the games. Seems they once again do not stand by their developers and committments.
[/QUOTE]


Damn them all

[youssof_Toda]

What's the point in playing when you don't have fun anymore playing the game?

[Rath]

I agree with youssouf http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

winning now isn't exciting at all unless i beat someone i hate http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif or rate v highly...and peeps like that are rarely on in my timezone http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif so now i hardly play.

[NagaoKagetora]

First up...hello to elmo,rath,koc,gaz,jaeger and the rest who have posted in this thread so far.

I agree with youssof, i have had the game since its release in the UK and have now played a grand total of 4 friendly games on the MI server. And I am a guy who religiously showed up every night on the stw server. I have got intrested in other online games now but i still go by the name Kagetora even in those games....Im still samurai at heart i guess http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Shogun's attraction for me is as much about the peeps who play it as the game itself...this is somethin that was brought fresh to my mind when i bumped into the Kyodai's online tonight.

Hope to bump into you all again on STW server again

KenchiKagetora

[JAG]

koc don't be sad. .. hehe we had a good game. . probably the best i have had in MI i enjoyed it and it was fun. . . like old times in STW server http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif. . . i will always play shogun untill it has been deserted by #1 my clan and #2 all of my friends! i have alrdy lost some due to them being bored with all this new crap http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

but we go on http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

------------------

Watch out for that. . . . . Dam too late!. . . the story of my life!

WarlordWarrior

[DragonCat]

I hope to be on Sunday- and I'd love to get in some 2x2 or 3x3 with one of my favorite partners (that's you Elmo!)

And I still want to do some Mongol Horse Racing!

------------------
DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

[UglyElmo]

LOL Dragoncat . . I will be on about midnight eastern standard time, but not for long because I have to work the next morning at 6 am. eastern. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I will be on later tonight though, so we can play then if you can make it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Major_Dump Asai]

I talked three friends into buying the game, but they are scared to play online unitl they play the damn campaigns out.... i try to explain to them playing the campaign doesnt give u good multiplayer skills becasue the AI is so stupid lol

anyway, if i play with someone new i try to give them pointers (after the game of course, if u do it during they think youre being bossy hehe)

[TakeshidaSo]

Have them read the game features info thread, about how NOT to win.

[UglyElmo]

LOL Takeshida, either that or they could play with me for a few games and find out in realtime!! HEHE I am a good "bad" example of how to play this game. LOL

[MagyarKhans Cham]

We teach our wolves to fight unconditionally... so report me when someone is protecting his ranking by not accepting a fair challenge.

[EuroSmisker]

Although not a "vet", I think that Hertston's post

"I've just come back to Shogun with the expansion (after a long and enjoyable break playing Combat Mission), and am still cleaning the rust of my sword before venturing online again. The game had a terrific online crowd before, and it will be a great shame if that changes. The vets can stop that happening... but only by being there. Newbies are by their very nature impressionable, and will adopt the tactics that beat THEM. If those tactics happen to be a high honour ashigaru horde - that's what they'll play too unless you folks are here to help them out, show them how it should be done, and exemplify that "honour" has nothing to with "ranking"."

really exemplifies my experience. I was hungry and eager to learn the game and hadn't the European Crusader´s picked me up (thx guys...) I belive I too MIGHT have worked with rank, camp, winning-more-important-than-fun/learning, maybe even incorporating cheats, who knows! (I sure hope I wouldn't...)

The thoughtful and helping clanmembers have really made me enjoy the game as it is, heck I even enjoy loosing now if I can learn something really useful. Ugly, I think the post is excellent and really discusses the issue.

------------------
___________________________________

By faith, or by sword...
You heathens WILL bow!

Crusader
___________________________________

[This message has been edited by EuroSmisker (edited 09-15-2001).]

[MagyarKhans Cham]

elmo, we should start make a list of serious gamers which they can edit theirselves with all kind of data like games they like email and so on, forum based so we keep in touch when we move on to other games ...

[UglyElmo]

TO Skirm and Magya, I am making a website/forum to help us keep in touch, but the events of the past week have distracted my progress on it. I will be finished soon and everyone will be invited to join in the discussions/forums/community.

[jodmeister]

YUP......I agree with the Ugly one!

I received loadsa help when I first joined and passed on help to others likewise.....

I am not alltogether happy with MI, mainly because of the bugs, which lead me to only play friendlies...but even this is difficult because there is usually no-one in the lobby anyway......................................


Fight the JOD!

erm.....only if you happen to be there...lol

[Krasturak]

*opens coffin*

*creeps out of coffin*

Gah! Krast finds thread with posts from large numbers of respectalble players!

Krast reads and agrees!

STW community good! New, hostile players bad!

Especially bad when they make Krast look good. If that makes sense, visit at coffin more often for soup!

Now, Krast wants to see good community grow, live long and prosper like Spock wants. Krast likes Spock, you know.

So, is it possible for all of you/us to get on the server and play and show how the better side of STW/MI can be enjoyed?

Krast is busy in old STW lots, and seeing some but not all old players gives some encouragement.

btw, Krast not have MI/WE due to all bad reviews. Not need! STW fine as it is ... and since worst flaws not fixed, why change?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Oh, yes! Last thing!

Why is Krast still 'Ronin'?

[UglyElmo]

Check again krast you are now samurai! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I will begin working on the new site tomorrow after a party for my nephew's new baby boy! My two kids are too old to be held often and I can't wait to hold this little stinker in my arms. Even better, if I smell something bad, I can hand him back to his parents! LOL