Someone help me on ODAWARA please

[Jpf]

Hi,
I'm going through the Historical Campaign battles at the moment.
They are proving very enjoyable too.....that is until I got to the last Hideyoshi battle at Odawara.

I just cannot keep my casualties below %60+ which results in an instant loss.......

Any tips on this one would be most appreciated!

Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[solypsist]

hmmm, I'll check it out soon and see if I can add anything.

[Pachinko]

Here it is,
"The first of Odawara 1561" Shingen Takeda vs Useugi Kenshin was a seige for 2 months. The withdraw because the province was threatened.

"The second Siege of Odawara 1669" The Takada against the Hojo. He failed to capture Hachigata Castle from Hojo. The siege was only 3 days. At the end the Takeda burned the town of Odawara. And they withdraw..

This is a book called The samurai sourcebook.

P.

[Jpf]

Thanks Solypsist
I look forward to it.

BTW Are there any good strategy guides for the X-Pack yet?
I'd like to know what the ideal counters are for each troop type, Kensai, Skirmishers etc etc?

[Gregoshi]

Jpf,

I had a devil of a time with that battle too. I must have tried it about 10 times before I finally won. It suffers from poor initial troop placement as in a few other Hideyoshi battles. This made Hideyoshi's campaign the hardest of the Three Unifier campaigns in my view. There are three main things you need to do to beat the Hojo:

1) Consolidate your forces. You need to immediately pull the 4(?) units on your left (west) wing towards the center. It seemed to go better if you move them behind (south) of the forest separating them from the army center.

2) You also need to pull the YS and SA on your right (east) wing towards the center too. These can come through the woods separating them from the center. If you have a chance, watch the Hojo formation. They have a high honor WM and a kensai unit there that can chew you up. If either of these units are more towards the center, you may have a shot at flanking the 2-3 gun units Hojo has on the west side of the woods. Otherwise, pull your units to the rear towards the center.

Tip: Since time is of the essence at the begining of the battle, make groups of the units on either wing so you can quick select them and order them to the center.

3) Lastly and most importantly in the army center, pull the ND, kensai, nags and YS back into the trees immediately behind Hideyoshi. The center receives a nasty cav charge and the cav will get slaughtered when they move into the trees. Since the Hojo taisho is in the one cav unit, chances are good he will get killed early on and the overall Hojo effectiveness will go down as a result.

Even with the above tactics, it took me 3-4 tries to win. Each time I got closer and closer to beating the Hojo. It is very touch and go and I figure it would take me a couple of tried to win that battle again.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Jpf]

Great!!
Thanks for the advice there Gregoshi, I've only tried the battle 8 times so far but couldn't see any way of winning http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

I will certainly try to think a little more on the tactical side from now on.
Pulling the main army back into the trees to dispatch the cavalry sounds like a very good idea indeed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

BTW did you have trouble with any of Tokugawa's battles?
I'm completing the campaigns in chronological order, so it only seems right to leave Sekigahara until the very last........

I tried the battle of MIKATA GA HARA where you have only spearmen against a whole host of cavalry.....
I figure this map requires some kind of orderly retreat towards a forest too???
What are your (or any other tacticians) thoughts/tactics on this one?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif


[This message has been edited by Jpf (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Gregoshi]

Jpf, don't thank me until you win that battle. If anything, hopefully my suggestions will get you thinking towards something that will work for you. Odawara was the hardest battle for me in the historical campaigns.

On to MGH... MGH had me scratching my head after having it handed to me in my first attempt. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I managed to beat it on the 2nd try. Here's what I did:

1) Immediately retreat Ieyasu and have him join the forces hiding in the woods far to your rear. You have to abandon your YS on the plain. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

2) Although you are abandoning the Army of the Plain, they still have a role to play. Have your YS charge the Takeda forces in front of you at the edge of the map. I found several opportunities to get flank attacks on the units there. The Army of the Plain can put a hurting on the Takeda before they are taken down from behind.

3) For Ieyasu and the Army of the Woods, simply stay in the woods. Wait for the Takeda cav to come charging into the woods after you and then tear them apart with your YS. By the time the Takeda YS/YA arrive, their cavalry should be almost none existent. Look for exposed flanks to attack and whatever you do, don't leave the trees until the Takeda are on the run.

This concludes part 2 of Gregoshi's Way: If At First You Don't Succeed, Die, Die Again. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Jpf]

Thanks again Gregoshi!

I will let you know how I managed to win at Odawara (if it ever happens, http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I wasn't encouraged to hear your comment "Don't thank me yet!" lol http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

And as for MGH that sounds very do'able http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Jpf]

I did it, thanks to you Gregoshi

I trounced the Takeda army at Odawara using your tactics (admittedly I used the NORMAL difficulty).
I won't go into exact details but there was a lot of PAUSE BUTTON use going on at first, going about bringing my force together in the middle of the plain.

Apart from some trouble with the Warrior Monks and a group of musketeers it all went like clockwork.

My army took 1183 heads to their 521
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Gregoshi]

Congratulations Jpf! And thanks for the tip too - I forget about that pause key. That may have helped me (and my stress level) sooner in my re-tries of that battle. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Gregoshi]

Bump for Terazawa.

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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon