View Full Version : Newbie v. Warrior Monk
Alot of opponents I play load up on Warrior monks and when we go into battle he just overwhelms my ranks with them. Is this the way battle is done. I have been trying to use a balanced attack but it seems like I should load up on warrior monks and musketeers and I will at least have a chance.
I was just wondering is this how battles are fought online. If so no problem I will adjust but it seems kinda like whoever has the most monks wins. It just isn't what I had pictured.
I was hoping some veterans might have a word of advice on the subject besides "Load up on Monks" in order to defeat these guys.
Just a question.
Thanks
Mongo
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There is a time to fight and a time to retreat it is wise to know the difference.
It does seem that a favourite 'tactic' in multiplayer is to (as you so nicely put it) 'load up on muskets and monks'. This is unfortunately fairly effective and of course a little dull compared to some of the epic battles you can play against people with balanced armies. You just have to keep trying till you find people who do play like that. Then the true brilliance of STW comes out.
GL and enjoy.
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Fight first, ask questions later.
Simple answer ( I like simple http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ) is to go for archer units and anti-shock units like the naginata.
Monks have no armour and so are more susceptable to missile fire than other, armoured units. Naginata have heacy armour and can take more of a pounding from arrows. One trick is to waylay the marauding monks with naginata and pepper the entire melee combat with arrows. Tends to work quite well.
Mind you, I'm rubbish at Shogun, so there's probably better ways of doing it.
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Quote MagyarKhans Cham:
i even suspect Target is coming here to hype things up.[/QUOTE]
Catiline
10-02-2001, 03:45
Say hello to the monkrush. play lower koku games they can't afford as many monks, or they have to reduce their honour, in which case rout them with guns.Concentrate fire, that way you rout one unit and the rest follow more easily, but be ready to change the focus of your defence to anohter unit quickly. Lover Koku games are more fun anyway. Go 500 a side and feel like you actually have to command what you've got.
I'm rubbish too though...
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Oderint dum metuant
Yagyu Jubei
10-02-2001, 03:46
LOL,,,
just a few days ago it was the ashi/muskie rushers we were worried about. Now again it is the dreaded Monk Rush!!!!!
A sad tail indeed. I agree that you need missile troops, heavily armored troops and your fair share of shock troops.
Remember the best thing to use against a monk is another monk.
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Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu! Ganbate!
If u use 4 monks ur good by me!
Pepper the monkeys with arrows and guns, and normally monk rushers suck anyway, surround them with your troops.
Tera
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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.
Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
theforce
10-02-2001, 18:15
Since l had a long day and l bored to read the other guy's replies here is the words of wisdom: Use high honor ys(prefer them than nag) and guns. Use nd to flank monks when your ys have angaged them.
Have faith in theforce!
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com
use Heavy Cavalry to beat down those pesky monks and Yari Cavalry to destroy his guns, use your YS as a block on the front then flank him with HCav and YCav
at least, that is one option
what I used to do was deploy an army against a 'heavy' enemy (almost always worked)
4 SA
4 YS
4 WM
4 ND
4 HC
on a very flat map substitute 1 of the YS and 2 of the SA for Muskets (unless you are looking for rain) and you have him...at least that worked in original S:TW
Then there is MY 5000 koku rush army that I have never seen anyone else use....
8 Hon0 HC
8 Hon0 WM
yeeeeeeeeeeehaw
have fun
Catiline
10-02-2001, 18:32
That's clever Whitey, squeezing 20 units from 16 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Oderint dum metuant
Konnichiwa,
Hcav is indeed a unit that can mow down wm. But they are very expensive, slow and can be easily killed by cheap yarisam. I doubt the usefulnes of this unit in the one time online matches (I mean, in a campaign 1 or 2 hcavs could boost your army, but online the opponent has the same amount of koku to spend. In other words: their cost power ratio is poor; or I just fail to apply them correctly).
Naginata are indeed a way to block wmonks, but in most cases they are too slow against skilled enemies, and fairly expensive too.
In a 5000 koku battle you better rely on honor 4 yarisam, buy some 4-6 of them. Put them on hold formation and position so they defend better. Get 3 lsam and 3 muskets, you can safely reduce their honor to 0 to get extra koku for the other units.
Take 3 nods at honor 2 or 3. Buy a yaricav for fast chasing, the new NagiCav is an excellent unit for the taisho, imho far more than the hardly stronger but more expensive hcav. Place the yarisam in one 'wall', group this wall and keep it between your other units and the enemy.
I'm not a skilled player, but at times I manage to beat newbies with this army.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
[This message has been edited by TosaInu (edited 10-02-2001).]
Catiline
lol - hmmm...no wonder I kept winning http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
TosaInu
I know HCav are expensive, but now they are only 50 koku more expensive than WM, true they are slow, but they are quicker than Infantry...you are right though, the YSam method is generally more reliable and easier to control, but it is not as fun as using mobile armies to pick at the monk rushers.
I use it just so I can say 'I beat monk rushes with a mobile mixed force' rather than just crushing them with sheer firepower shielded by spears...an image thing i 'spose http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
YSam in Hold Formation has never really worked for me, only Naginata seem to use it effectivly - I guess i'm not using it in the right role.
Quote Get 3 lsam [/QUOTE]
thats something for OT...'you can tell if you've been playing STW too long if you still call Samural Archers Light Samurai http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
or if you remember wondering why they changed it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
I hate to use NG.. they are slow and can't compete with WM one-on-one. I will only use them defending a hill.. monkrush are *yawn* boring and can be defeated by a good balanced army any time (provided the taisho is not an idiot :P)
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tootee the toothless warrior (aka goldfish shimazu)
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I just beat a stupid monk rush (720 out of 960 were monks) with the ratio 927 kill vs. 147 loss on expert, Wakasa. I got 8 SA, 4 YS and 4 YC. Totally shot the cr*p out of them. Nothing more to say but http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I guess the key is to hold the monks by YS and flank, backstab them using YC. They cannot stand too long before the arrows http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 10-03-2001).]
So to say, I hope they patch the game again.
JHC is crap, EA better remake it.
Let the japanese heavy cavalry have +3 vs infantry and +5 vs foot-archers and +2 vs naginata cavalry.
Increase the range of the archers by 1 tile, so they excel over muskeeteers.
Rise the cost of muskeeteers to 275 and lower the cost of naginata to 400.
then there won't be much monk rush.
Do you agree?
Quote Originally posted by TosaInu:
I'm not a skilled player, but at times I manage to beat newbies with this army.
[/QUOTE]
You joking I suppose! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Tera
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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.
Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
A nice tactic is to run cavalry around the monks whilst archers decimate their ranks. The trick is to get the cavalry close to the monks just before they close with the archers. In many cases they'll disengage from the archers to snap at the cav, wherein the cav abruptly disengages. The archers then resume the pickings. When done properly, it's cool to watch the vacillating monks deciding who to destroy, and getting chewed up in the process.
I agree with you a whole lot Matrix2 on the muskeets versus archers aspect.
Muskeets in that time period were virtualy useless ,unless at a very close range.
Archers would have a better advantage at further distance.
theforce
10-04-2001, 01:43
HC is as wisely said a defencive cavalry. If the guy with monks is defending and he even has some ys and guns(he will have lots) those Hc will rout before even have the chance to fight. A well balanced army is the key.
4 muskets
4-5 ys (high honor)
2CA(beef up projectile support against monks and also can help flanking in high honor)
and rest nd.
Also try getting a better spot that the other, that is elementary but if you go rushing him chances are that you are gonna flee!
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com
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