Cavalry tactics advise requested

[omine-san]

I disliked cavalry until now (except heavy cavalry, which I never get to make). Yari cavalry are no good in deciding the battle, only in killing routing troops (but they are very good at that) - even if I send tham at an archer unit, the yari infantry quickly shows up and tears them apart. It is quite annoying to see the 500-koku YC get shreded by 100-koku YA. Cavalry archers are simply inferior to samurai archers, except it's a little tiresome to catch them. And I suspect both they rout more easily then YS, for example.

But yesterday, through neglect I had a province (Etchu) invaded by enemy 4 YS and 2 YA, when all I had there were 3 YC and one no-dachi, all rank 0. Probably best to withdraw and keep the expensive cavalry away from this mismatch, right ? well, I gave it a try anyway. I scattered all 4 units all over the map and tried to maneuver and create local advantages in numbers and heights. I lost 1 YC unit that routed due to a surprise encounter with YS in the woods, but I eventually won, and it was a lot of fun. The speed of the YC saved the day, tiring the enemy back and forth on the map and finishing off isolated groups before they can get help. So maybe I'm missing something about their use in larger battles too.

Please advise ! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Lord Shimazu]

Use Yari Calvary against heavy cavalry or enemy Daiymio!!

Im sorry you missed out on this!

[Mithrandir]

I think thast there should be another unit added ,something like a simple swordsman ,
though maybe unlike reality this would make cavelarie more usefull..i dont like Cavalry at all due to the fact that the most cheap unit in the game can take them out http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Cavalry Archers are useful - but in a limited fashion. They are your skirmishers, the ones to use to bait enemy units into traps with - thats why they have a ranged attack.

Yari Cav is your missile killer - against both archers and cav archers. Its also excellent for creating a second flank, taking on an enemy diamyo and running down routing troops.

Heavy Cavalry is your Defensive Cav - use it to bear the brunt of and deflect an enemy cav attack until your spearmen can get into position to slaughter the enemy cav.

Naginata Cavalry is your Attack Cav - they are made to take out those infantry units that most cav fears - spearmen. Less useful against Naginata - but great against archers, no-dachi and monks. Also fantastic against Kensai and BN - but then again - all cav is good against these two units.

Qapla!

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[theforce]

Cavalry only to flank since most units can beat it. I rarely take HC or YC and if l do l beef up their honor and flank with em.

------------------
Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com

[PugPenguin]

I don't like Cavalry units much either, having to build horse dojo and armoury and so on, and they cost a lot. But like Lord Shimazu pointed out, Yari Cavalry is very good at killing other mounted units. They can beat even Heavy cavalry rather nicely, and to top it up YC being the fastest unit, they can catch up with every cavalry unit.

I don't think there are many people who try to rely on mounted units only. They are supporting units for foot soldiers. I usually have one or two YC units roaming behind the main army and use them for odd jobs, like killing isolated enemy archers (much quicker than chasing using YS) or running around the enermy pack and chaging into the flank or rear of an enemy which is ALREADY FIGHTING. The idea is to keep mounted units alive while aiding other foot soldiers, like YA/YS aided by YC goes quite well - Ashis engage, and YC hit from the rear. Ashis would die but they are cheap.

As for cavalry archers... I'm no expert on that. I think they aren't very useful overall. In some defence battles I use them to lure the enemy to where I want them to go. I could use YC for that but at least CA can harass the enemy doing it. Just don't get them too close to the bulk of the enemy because CA have the tendency to chicken out easily when they get tired.

All in all, generally you shouldn't use any cavalry to initiate a battle. I'd use foot soldiers for that. The only exception is HC vs YC, where YC would nearly always overpower HC.

Another thing is, in my view YC has the best cost/time vs usefulness ratio. HC is a bit too bothersome and expensive, and hard to use. The manual says HC can beat pretty much everything thrown at them, but that is completely wrong. They suck at head to head engagement. Flank or rear rules when there's an oppotunity. Until then, keep all horses behind foot soldiers and don't use them.

That's how I usually use them anyway.

HC surely aint worth the 600 koku. Full stop!

YC is my favourite cav unit. It's fast, and it's great for flanking...

CA are superlative. Their possibilites are endless. You can go at the flanks and shoot the enemy's shocks...you can rout them through enemy gun lines...you could use them as heavy troops in melee (always for flanking in the case of CA!)

I think they're far better than SA just because of these facts...

Tera

------------------
Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[BSM_Skkzarg]

CA's are useful - on offense. Defensively they are ok - but I do prefer SA's for defense as they are more accurate.

------------------
BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[DoCToR]

Tera, you hit the nail on the head...HC are, at present, a fairly redundant unit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

Not only regarding their price, but the other 2 Cavalry types cover the options possible.

If you want an attacking cavalry use the NC, they are very effective at killing most troops with the exception of Yari wielding troops. They will kill monks, No-dachi, Naginata, Heavy cav and all missile troops. They will also fair the best of all the cavalry against Yari. Additionally with their 8 morale they are very effective separated from the Taisho and work like mounted Monks. Thumbs up for these guys http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

If you want a fast cavalry that is also very effective against cavalry then use the Yari cavalry...their poor morale means you have to use these troops very carefully! Due to their speed they are also very effective against routing troops and can easily chalk up massive kill ratios when used in this way http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Heavy cavalry are supposed to be the elite troops and the most feared of all Japanese units, but are essentially there only to soak up an attack until other troops arrive which can deal with the attack better. Naginata are also useful in this way and are much cheaper. Furthermore Heavy cavalry will lose to all Yari troops, Naginata cav and Yari cav and therefore prove very difficult to use and micromanage http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

In my opinion being defensive isn't really what cavalry are about in general and therefore HC are fairly redundant....use them at your peril!

DOC

HC have their uses though http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I always have difficulty stopping them when I have few yaris.

Tera

------------------
Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org)
Evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif

[kain]

I reckon that ALL the cavalry sprites could look better - seeing row upon row of fat chocolate-brown horses with yellow reins gives me enough reason to never field them. Thing is, when you right-click to get details of the unit and see the picture (in the strategy map), the cavalry look great - why couldn't the in-game sprites look a little more like that?

[MagyarKhans Cham]

since when do u use cav archers tera ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Quote I gallop messages around, dont track me I can bring war as well[/QUOTE]

[jomni]

In SP campaign, I bring along 2 to 4 cavalry units per 16 unit armies. Most of them being YC. I use them to counter-charge attacking enemy cavalry (since their good in killing cavalry). I also use them to massacre fleeing troops making it harder for the enemy to build another attack force in
short order.