How do I

[RunAway!!]

Ok...after tiring of spending 5 minutes with half my army attempting to kill the enemy king, I'm looking for mod advice. Does anyone know how I can mod the stats for Kings so that they are somewhat believable? One guy should not be able to hold out for 5+ minutes against 400, no matter how scary he is.

[NagatsukaShumi]

It all depends what unit they have, the valor they have etc.. It isn't moddable to my knowledge, maybe the power of the kings unit is.

[Kraellin]

the only place i know of where you can affect this is in the early- high- late.txt files under the 'startleader::' area. there is a set of numbers after each faction's leader setting, about 8 numbers or so. i've tweaked a few of these just to see what would happen, but so far, all i've managed to change that i can notice, is the leader's title, and only the part that is the roman numberal, like 'king conrad II'. i got an error message once telling me that it couldnt find any reference to that roman numeral for that king. when i changed the numbers back to the original setting then i no longer got that error message.

i was hoping one of the dev guys would post a list of what each number means there to de-mystify this, but so far no luck. there are other numbers like this, as well. the addheir:: one has some and there's a couple others, iirc, where there are only 2 numbers. in fact, i think it's the addheir:: that has the two numbers and i've really no clue to what they do. the addheir:: also allows for multiple entries of a given faction and i've no idea why this is either, maybe one affects males and the other females. dunno. a little help here, gil?

K.

[RunAway!!]

The problem isn't the king's unit...royal knights go down quickly, its the king himself. Since there's no telling what numbers effect what...is there any way to change the morale modifiers for being outnumbered?

[Lord Krazy]

I have a problem in that they
enter battle too quickly and die too quickly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Then the others run, then I can't kill them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

K,
I believe the two numbers you talk about
are the addheir 1 for male 0 for female
or something like that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

LK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Kraellin]

thanks LK,

yeah, sorta thought that might be the case...just hadnt tried it to find out for sure.

K.

[PatrickNeil]

Kraellin, just to recap, the SetStartLeader numbers work like this: The first number refers to a hard coded list of heros or "heroic kings" which each faction has. Most are "0" because the kings and heros should come up automatically, that's no fun. The rest of those numbers tell the game what number to put after the kings name. The game will randomly choose a name from the list of names in "names.txt" that coresponds to the faction, and then stick the number after the name (Luigi IV), could swear I just said that.

AddHeir works like this: For first number, 0 = Princess, and 1 = Prince, and the second number determines their age. 16 is the max for princes, 15 for princess, cause then their not heirs, but generals and agents. That's all, no big mystery.

---

Sorry to get off the point, but it's the patch that changes how kings function in battle and made them invincible, this was cause people complained that kings died too easily.

Patrick

[RunAway!!]

Well...If people didn't do suicidal frontal charges on an unbroken enemy line, their kings wouldn't die so often. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif So if I were to reinstall the files for MTW without the patch, and look at the numbers regarding the king; and then install the patch, and look at the change in numbers, think I would be able to tell which ones needed changing again?

[cugel]

I don't think you're going to be able to mod effect out. I've noticed that the last man of any unit is always much harder to kill than the entire rest of their unit. The enemy general is harder yet and enemy kings are hardest of all. I've often had this problem where the enemy general fights off 30 or 40 knights. The game tracks the individual honor of each man in the unit and the last man is the unit leader, often with higher honor than the others (sometimes much higher&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif You might have noticed this effect when you're merging your units after a battle and have one guy left over - sometimes his honor is about seven or something, while the unit as a whole is a 2 - especially if you've added replacements to the unit after a few battles.

As for enemy kings being ridiculously hard to kill, I think this is due to the "suicide daimyo" problem we're all familiar with from Shogun. Despite attempts to "tone down" the AI king's penchant for suicide attacks this problem seemingly has never been satisfactorily solved. This could be due (at least partly) to the fact that in addition to the normal high honor and valor of the AI kings the AI gets a morale boost when you play on expert (plus 2 I think?) This can make the AI king or general suicidally brave (which I think was part of the problem) - I would like to hear this confirmed by EA, but making the king nearly invincible could be part of their solution to factions dying out too rapidly due to the "suicide daimyo" effect.

[Kraellin]

thanks patrick :)

wait a minute, yer saying that the game needs 8 numbers to stick a roman numeral after someone's name? that sounds a bit odd.


Quote[/b] ]The rest of those numbers tell the game what number to put after the kings name. The game will randomly choose a name from the list of names in "names.txt" that coresponds to the faction, and then stick the number after the name (Luigi IV),

surely some of those numbers affect other things about the king besides his name. that could be done with 2 numbers; what are the other 6 for?

K.

[barocca]

a dozen or so experiment with those numbers has had minimal effect, sometimes a V&V may be different, but, well frankly we're stumped.

The Devs have never given us the explanation of these numbers...

what we need is somone to apply Puzz3D style methodology to this problem...

[GilJaysmith]

A pox on your libels, sir

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=1503 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=1503)

In brief: there are several kingly names per faction, and even magicians such as we can't apply several different serial numbers to them all without needing several different numbers ;)

Gil ~ CA

[Qilue]

I did a test where I changed this line in early.txt

SetStartLeader:: FN_EGYPTIAN 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0

with it's corresponding version in high.txt

SetStartLeader:: FN_EGYPTIAN 3 1 1 1 1 0 1 0 1

with the result being that the starting early era Egyptian ruler had the same name/title/number/stats and v&v's as the starting high era Egyptian ruler.

I was also able to place the late era ruler in early with the corresponding line from late.txt.

[Kraellin]

ah, ok. thanks gil. that somewhat explains my swiss leader who gave an error of King Conrad II couldnt translate leader name or something like that when i modded the numbers.

i had thought the first number would refer to a list of names, and another number refer to a set of roman numerals and you were just mixing and matching, but i get it now, i think. so, if i didnt want king conrad of the swiss to come up as the faction leader every time, i would mod the first number to something other than 0, yes? and doesnt this also require that you know what the label list is to be able to mod it with any certainty so that you dont get a king conrad II couldnt translate type message?

sorry, not trying to be pissy about this but there is still something i'm missing here. ok, so i change the swiss leader to a 1 and let's say i get king rudolf, as an example (not that there is a king rudolf, just using a made up name here). the rest of the numbers then would be rudolf II, rudolf iv, and so on, depending on what's hard coded and which numbers i use after the first one?

if there are two hard-coded lists, the index of names and the counters, then we set the start leader's name with the first number and his roman numeral with the other 8? or is there a difference between 'heroic kings' and 'kings' and the first number is always a 0 or a 1 for non-heroic and heroic and the other 8 numbers are specific kings each?

bah i'm still missing something here. seems to me that if a 0 and a 1 are determining between a heroic and normal king, then wouldnt there be 3 lists? and if the other 8 numbers are counters, as gil says, then arent they also counters with names before them?

bah

K.

[Frederick Barbarossa]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ Dec. 10 2002,03:14)]a dozen or so experiment with those numbers has had minimal effect, sometimes a V&V may be different, but, well frankly we're stumped.

The Devs have never given us the explanation of these numbers...

what we need is somone to apply Puzz3D style methodology to this problem...
Explanation of all numbers and corresponding stats:

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....tleader (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=13506;hl=setstartleader)