ORG files on 3Ddownloads are a joke

[Turbo]

For the last 2 weeks I have been trying off and on to download ORG files off of 3D Downloads. The 15-20 minute stand in line download is lame enough, but most of the time the server doesn't even find the files.

Personally I am really disappointed in the decision by Totalwar.org to put files on 3D Downloads. Others have posted on here that 3D Downloads system sucks, but no one seems interested or cares. Hopefully someone here will wake up and realize that the users on here are being done a real disservice or do everyone a kindness and just delete the download files.

[solypsist]

our system admin, Barocca is currently away, so that might have something to do with your problems.

[KukriKhan]

Meanwhile...is there a particular file you're trying to get? Some are available thru other sites.

[WesW]

I had problems the first time I tried to use the 3D site as well. I got an email from one of their tech guys asking for additional info, as he said this was something that occurred occasionally. All I know is that I tried for a second time the next day, and it worked. The standard reply, which I got in addition to the tech guy's, said to enable cookies. Well, my cookies are on, so I suspect it has to do with initializing the cookie or something. I also have Win2K, which may be part of the problem.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Turbo @ April 06 2003,14:34)]For the last 2 weeks I have been trying off and on to download ORG files off of 3D Downloads. The 15-20 minute stand in line download is lame enough, but most of the time the server doesn't even find the files.

Personally I am really disappointed in the decision by Totalwar.org to put files on 3D Downloads. Others have posted on here that 3D Downloads system sucks, but no one seems interested or cares. Hopefully someone here will wake up and realize that the users on here are being done a real disservice or do everyone a kindness and just delete the download files.
Without wishing to appear critical I agree.

My problem is that the 3Ddownloads ALWAYS hangs when I try a download and, believe me, I've tried every trick in the book to try and ascertain just where the problem lies - unsuccessfully http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

I know both Barroca and TosaInu have been looking at this problem but, for what it's worth, I suspect the problem lies at the 3ddownload end.

I currently have 2 things I wish to upload to The Org (SPM - a Shield Position Modifer utility and the latest version of LMM) but I'm not going to even try unless I know I can also download whatever I upload and check the uploads correct.

[Alrowan]

ive only had one problem with it, and it wasnt like any of those. Ill post my settings for IE when i get home this evening

[spmetla]

Whenever I try to download all I get is a 15.2kb file. After my harddrive crashed I wanted to get my mod off the Org. But alas I could not. So I had to redo the entire campaign mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[rory_20_uk]

Wow Sorry to hear that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Well, as there seems to be a lot of bed feeling towards the current situation, what other alternatives to people think would work? Would habing mirrors at say lycos, geocities and the rest be a good idea? They could certainly host most of the smaller files with ease.
This couldbe upgraded to a paid for repository if people could be relied on to click on certain banners when they use the site, providing the money to continue the site's existence.
Personally I think that the way that the files are handled at the moment is very annoying especially as my computer gets a "key expired" message if I try to download more than one file at a time.
If there is any cncensus as to what needs to be done, I'm sure that with the ability here a pseudo ftp site could easily be created. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[WesW]

Well, I have about half of my 100meg allotment at Apolyton that is unused, so if some of you have completed mods that you want to post, I will be happy to host them. Just contact me by email first with what you have, and let me set up a time to receive the mod, since I only have a 26K connection.

[rory_20_uk]

Can others upload to your site? I have a nice LAN connection, curtesy of my college, and as it is Easter, it is nice and fast at the moment. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

3ddownloads are a complete joke, they allways make you wait so that you can see their dumb adds. Come on dudes, even a yahoo group account would provide better hosting. it's got be a better way than this... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[rory_20_uk]

I agree with that completely. Why don't you set up a yahoo account, and put at least the smaller files on it? I fyou release the logon and passowrd to sensible users here, they can upload files themselves.Just a thought... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Swordsman]

Double-ditto I've simply given up trying to download anything. I have a broadband connection and still always have to sit thru 5 minutes of ads. Then, half the time there is some kind of glitch that forces me to try again (MORE ads). Guys, it's dysfunctional. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[WesW]

Quote[/b] (rory_20_uk @ April 09 2003,12:44)]Can others upload to your site?
Uh..............no. Having the password to the page could enable hackers to do some bad stuff to the whole site, so I have to keep that to myself.

Most of the files made for MTW are pretty small compared to some of the things for the Civ-type games (my Medmod II was 30 megs), so I could easily host a lot of stuff on 50 megs.

The reason I specified completed mods was so that I would not get into a situation where people were counting on me to promptly post mods that were in development. Creators need to set up a temp account on one of the free sites while they are in development, and then they could send the mod to me and/or the org.

[barocca]

The decision to move the files was not made by us but by our host, who actually closed the Org down for a day because hosting files on this server is apparently a breach of service, (our host owns 3D and TF)

Personally i never have any trouble downloading the files from 3D,
you need cookies enabled,
you cannot right click and save as, you must click the links and wait for 3d to start the download from their end,
Try setting 3D as a trusted site in IE options,

i have never experienced a fifteen minute download wait,
i don't know whats happening with that,

IF someone can track down a free files host that can hold in excess of a gig of files then i will be very happy to mirror the orgs file set on that host.
NOT a site host, there are plenty of those, a FILES ONLY host, and it MUST be happy to host more than 1 gig of files, because thats what we have.

and Wellington, you know as well as i do that uploads remain at the upload area on THIS server for a week BEFORE moving to the 3D server, so you have plenty of time to check your file uploaded correctly, please upload LMM and SPM.


Guys, this site is run by volunteers, who work here during their free time,
the site generates ZERO income, so we have to go with free hosts,
if you are having a problem with a particular file then email me with the exact address of the file and i'll check it out

[TosaInu]

Junior members and 'up' will find a new link in the forum menubar, next to Chat and Log out. That site can't host 900+ mb, but it offers a fair selection.

This is what you should see when using that link:

http://www.totalwar.org/tosa/Files.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

thanks tosa

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ April 19 2003,05:34)]and Wellington, you know as well as i do that uploads remain at the upload area on THIS server for a week BEFORE moving to the 3D server, so you have plenty of time to check your file uploaded correctly, please upload LMM and SPM.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Er ... as The Org is now only a one-week repository for downloads I fail to understand your reasoning. I CAN download from The Org - as I always have been able to. I CANNOT download from 3ddownloads.

As The Org now uses 3ddownloads, what is the point of ensuring The Orgs download (available for just ONE WEEK) works correctly - as it does it my case? The Org is NOT the problem, rather 3ddownloads - read my previous post.

If The Org allowed downloads for ONE YEAR as opposed to ONE WEKK, itwould'nt be a problem would it

The PROBLEM is specifically 3ddownloads and many people (myself included) just CANNOT download anything from 3ddownloads, whatever they try/do/amend ...

... as many posts in many threads over the last 4 months testify to


(PS: Nice to see you back B http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

(PPS: A couple of people have SPM at present - mainly the Patritian guys - and LMM4v3 WILL be uploaded when I can download from 3ddownloads; not just the one week Org repository)

[barocca]

i'm assuming by now everyone has read this thread,
3D Downloads - How to and Why (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=6215)

[Lord Of Storms]

No problems downloading any files at all the only problem I can see is sometimes the wait can be long, so I time it for early A.M. or late P.M. and no probs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Enable cookies? I would rather eat a shoe...

If you guys can't get the files (just like i couldn't) use netscape... But 3ddownloads are no service.

They que you up 5 minutes all the time so that you can see their adds, and then, sometimes, it wont work and you have to restart the process. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Come on guys, you are afraid of hackers? why would someone atack this site and what would be the worst they could do? you do have backups don't you?

That reasoning is like: "i wont go out in the street, there are killers out there...".

A yahoo group account would beat 3ddowloads easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[barocca]

current GMT is 12 noon,
there are currently no queues at 3D,
none - nada - zip,
i just scaned 20 files in half a dozen categories...
- all downloads are quick and delay free.


BTW
the org has an alternate server, click the link at the top of the forum between control panel and log-out,


AS FOR
yahoo group accounts, they don't allow 1 Gigabyte of files and we actually have MORE than that, but 1Gig is what we hold on 3D at the moment,


ALSO
using 3D for our file storage is part of our terms of service with our host - we have NO choice about that.


FINALLY,
why is everyone so paranoid about cookies?
read this the Truth about Cookies (http://www.tomug.org/cookie.html)

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ May 02 2003,05:41)]GUYS, i AM a fully qualified IT technician/(hardware/software mechanic) with 20 years hands on experience, i have NEVER seen a malicious cookie that worked. period.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif - ASTONISHED

With all respect B, i can see you hav'nt spent long enough investigating the potential for individuals introducing problems via cookies.

You are quite correct in stating that no individual can create a problem by designing a new-cookie per-se. You are also naive in thinking that cookies cannot be manipulated to provide an alternate effect.

If you have individuals writing code (TosaInu?) that is NOT TESTED before release, there is a massive potential for certain individuals introducing "problems" (via cookies or other means) to such code - simply by exploiting the presumptions and assumtions of the individual who wrote the said code.

Any individual with 20+ years in the Computer Industry knows exactly how to write code - and also knows EXACTLY how human beings write code and thus how to exploit it

All software contains bugs. Hackers, and the like, DON'T introduce more bugs They merely exploit the weaknesses inherit in existing code (as designed by humans&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif in order to introduce their "circumventions" to so-called "safe code".

After I was demoted and had to endure 24 hour posting restrictions I did a little testing of myself (KukriKhan is aware of some of this "testing"). I found "The Orgs" site software was neither tested nor consistent. Also I found that the inherent loopholes in "The Orgs" site software could be exploited in a negative manner should any individual wish to do so.

That is not to say that I or any other can do anything they want. Merely to point out that poor, untested, software provides multiple potential entry points for individuals who wish to screw up systems.

After 20+ years in the business B - you SHOULD know this I certainly do

If you require examples pertaining to "The Org"; E-mail me. You'll be surprised

[barocca]

Wellington, my old friend, i am sorry i was AWOL for so long, i will send you an email and am definately pleased you will share your findings on the org's security,

It was in a heck of a lot worse shape when i was promoted to admin,
we were ACTUALLY HACKED at least twice, one of which I identified and remedied when i became admin, and one was spotted by our host,
I look forward to your findings and recommendations.

All our software is either commercial release, which we pay for, or freeware to non commercial sites (which the org is).


In your investigation you would have bumped into this fella a few times,
http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Misc_Images/Doh.gif
(of course anywhere that site security is not an issues is missing this little fella)



i am not a code writer, (well i dabble a little, but nothing at all serious)
i am a Technician/mechanic - if it's broke, i can fix it.
Everything from 8088/86 up to the latest junk, 90% of the time a part (dll etc.) of the OS has gone belly up, or there is a mismatch between the device and the drivers.
The other 10% is hardware failure.


There has never been a report of malicious activity from a cookie, the latest generation browsers do limit what a cookie can do ALTHOUGH the options available in browser security settings can "allow" a cookie to do almost anything if the security options are configured badly.
But, fortunately, a cookie cannot install code on the users machine.
Some browser security settings can allow code to be installed, but only a newbie would enable all those options.


I insist on installing all my software under weird names, like luke skywalker etc. so that any information a cookie can gather IS gibberish, i have been doing this so long i often assume (wrongly i know) that everyone else does the same. And actually have that as a note in my DM, to remind myself to check the user of the machine i am fixing has NOT used personal data aywhere.


There have (in the dark distant past) been malicious websites which have installed software on the "visitors" system, but those browser loopholes have been closed.


I use windows 98, with all the updates and security fixes, and have had hacker friends do a full attempted access attack on this system - they could not get in.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ May 04 2003,19:09)]
In your investigation you would have bumped into this fella a few times,


No, I did'nt. I only tested why a supposed 5 minute flood control equated to 24 hours.

But, fortunately, a cookie cannot install code on the users machine.


True, but as a cookie is merely input to software, if you know how to "manipulate" such cookies in order to "test" the expectations of the software then even cookies can produce underiable effects - depending on the code.

It's the old adage - rubbish in rubbish out.


Anyway, I acquired yet another warning (flaming and baiting apparently&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif for my previous post in this thread so I won't be participating any further in respect of these issues.

Maybe this post will elicit yet another warning ...

... sigh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

Experience telling with 3ddownloads:

10 am - I want a file = 19 people on queue(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif= 5min waiting...

10:20- Want another file =19 people on queue(&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif= 5 min waiting...oopps total inexplainable drop, restart the process

10:50- Another file = 10 people on queue (surprise&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif= 5 min waiting


Is there a padron here? With the current technology level there is no reason for queues and such... For piety sake, guys invented Tcp/ip protocols for what? There are no reasons for this queues exept to make stare at a screen with adds.

Truth about cookies? i dont't like when people try to get information out of my computer without asking permission to do so... For example, the org also has a cookie that counts your posts and stuff i suppose. I don't care about this, but you should pretty much know that cookies can be used to plant spyware, backdoors and the lot of nasty stuff. I don't know this 3ddownloads and what they try to set on my computer, do you know for sure, Barocca?

By the way, it is virtually impossible to avoid being hacked, specially if you use "commercial" and "freeware" tools wich any kid with talent and practice can back-engineer and exploit. One way is to use your own tools, but that is huge work and why bother...

[barocca]

The org's cookie should merely identify you to the server so you don't have to enter your account details each time you visit,

3D's cookie tells them how much you have downloaded from the org's files, with an ID number so they can update their database on your usage of the org's file downloads,
this is merely to track bandwidth consumption on an average user basis,
and what, if any, ads you clicked on - this sort of info is used to gather a demographic of your interests so they can display ads you may be interested in, 3D gets paid for each ad clicked on, thats how 3D pays for their hardware and bandwidth.

If you find that the queues are overly long try downloading at a different time (not always convenient i know) and try to remember the days of 28K modems, when you could wait for 2 to 3 mins just to get TO the download page and then another wait to establish a link to the file, and THEN you had the pleasure of Snail-like download speeds,
everyone wants the file NOW, with no waiting, sadly that is not always possible, 3D hosts hundreds of file collections for hundreds of sites,
our queue is for org files only, but they have thousands of people on their servers downloading files from all those sites, thats why the queue system was put in place, to give everyone an equal chance to get what they need/want.


Cookies can't install software on your machine,
without being able to install something on your machine then you can't be hacked, per se,
if you leave open shares to directories on your hard drive then you asking for trouble.
BUT EVEN SO, all they can do is upload a a file to you,
they can't "install" that file UNLESS you have left your windows directory shared to the internet, then they can edit your starup files, and that is a very bad mistake to make.


If you open and run attatchments from emails without checking WHAT the attatchment actually is, then again you are simply asking for trouble,
i don't even run attatchements from people i know without checking them first.


If you accept "download and install" requests from websites again you are asking for trouble,
i never accept anything of the sort, NOT EVEN if it is REQUIREd to be able to download from that site,
if they want to install software to enable downloads from their site, i simply go get the file from somewhere else.


As for personal data you can take what you like from a cookie on my machine and it will tell you nothing personal about me, not even my real name,
i never use (or allow my customers to use) personal details when installing software, i always use false names and details.


simply put 3D should work,

if it won't in IE then PLEASE try the Netscape browser,

I am seeing so many reports on the web about XP and IE having trouble with so many file servers that i am beginning to suspect that microsoft have "broken" something critical in a security fix...


I do not know who warned wellington about his posts in this thread,
I have seen no flaming or baiting so far,
I am investigating this matter.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ May 10 2003,23:56)]If you find that the queues are overly long try downloading at a different time (not always convenient i know) and try to remember the days of 28K modems, when you could wait for 2 to 3 mins just to get TO the download page and then another wait to establish a link to the file, and THEN you had the pleasure of Snail-like download speeds,
And if you remember 48k Sinclair Spectrum time when you would have to wait 10 minutes for a good for nothing program to load and then get an error message (yes im at least this old) you will fall on your knees and give thanks to whatever god you pray to (if any). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Thanks Barocca, you gave me some nostalgia moments http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

But the queue on 3d is not due to technical limitations, it is a way to force you to see their adds, and perhaps draw you to clic on them (you don't have nothing else to do in those 10 minutes right?), i still don't like it, but from now on i'll remember my spectrum time, Ohhh boy those were the days... playing After the war, Match Day, Chukie egg, until my finger got numb... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif