De Bellis Romanus

[Hakonarson]

Is ther still room for a decent subtitle - "Rome: Total War" is just....so ...UN-roman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Cazbol]

It would be surprising to see anything other than Total War as the subtitle. If it was anything else, then there would be those saying that it wasn't a part of the Total War series etc. Expecting anything in latin would be pushing it, I think.

Pushing it even further would be to expect a game without a subtitle in these days. Subtitles can make sense for game series, but I wonder if Doom would have been a better name with some silly slogan.

[Stormer]

na roman is fine title...

[andrewt]

I think Total War is the title and Rome is the subtitle. Total War is the name of the series after all.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (andrewt @ Jan. 12 2003,18:32)]I think Total War is the title and Rome is the subtitle.
I agree... Shogun: Total War, Medieval: Total War... well the next step is not all that surprising is it?

[Gaius Julius]

I think the title Rome: Total War is just fine.
The subtitle "Total War", provides the link that associates all the games in the series. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Hakonarson]

You guys have no souls http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[David]

What about libera et impera http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Hakonarson]

Liberty and Empire?? What liberty?? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Efrem Da King]

The liberty of the romans to enslave other people http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[David]

libera et impera is latin for: liberate (conquer in roman) and reign (enslave in roman).

[FoundationII]

Don't you guys mean divide et impera (divide and rule)?
I never heard of anything like libere at impera.

[The Wizard]

Why are you bumping threads long since dead?

[Hurin_Rules]

De bellis Romanus doesn't make grammatical sense. I think what you mean is De bellis Romanis.

How about this:

Non Bellum Bellulum.

Translation: "War ain't pretty" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Skomatth]

Nos forum nomine "Sko rex est" dicamus.

[Red Peasant]

Quote[/b] (Hurin_Rules @ Nov. 25 2003,21:07)]De bellis Romanus doesn't make grammatical sense. I think what you mean is De bellis Romanis.

How about this:

Non Bellum Bellulum.

Translation: "War ain't pretty" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Hmm, bit rusty here, but is it more likely to be:

De Bellis Romanum?

De (concerning)

Bellis (the wars - neuter/ablative/plural/2nd declension)

Romanum (of the Romans - masculine/genitive/plural/3rd declension).

I'm guessing this for 'Romans' because I can't remember exactly what gender/declension it is, so inferred it from 'Forum Romanum'

Of course, being Latin, there can be varying inflexions depending on exactly what you are trying to say.

[Hurin_Rules]

De bellis romanorum would also be fine. The difference between it and de bellis romanis is slight:

De bellis romanis = On Roman wars (literally)
De bellis romanorum = On the wars of the Romans (lit.)

Romanus is a 2nd declension adjective: Romanus, -a, -um.

I just like De bellis romanis because it rhymes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Just can't help but think of Python's Life of Brian:

ROMANI ITE DOMUM

[Red Peasant]

Quote[/b] (Hurin_Rules @ Nov. 25 2003,22:43)]De bellis romanorum would also be fine. The difference between it and de bellis romanis is slight:

De bellis romanis = On Roman wars (literally)
De bellis romanorum = On the wars of the Romans (lit.)

Romanus is a 2nd declension adjective: Romanus, -a, -um.

I just like De bellis romanis because it rhymes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Just can't help but think of Python's Life of Brian:

ROMANI ITE DOMUM
*chuckle*

Good stuff. Them crazy morphing inflexions...the bane of my life http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Second declension would be 'Romanorum' then (as I originally edited out ) . I thought it was 3rd...silly me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Cheers

[GranCactus]

De Romanorum Bellis would be better style, like De Rerum Natura.
I like De Bellis Romanis better for some reason, though.

[Red Peasant]

Yes, like Caesar's 'De Bello Gallo', it has a certain ring to it.

[RJV]

Bloomin eck, and I conversations like this had all died away with the passing of my old latin teacher, Mr Robins, who was at least 95 if he was a day and began all lessons sending a blackboard rubber hurtling across the classroom, and shouting 'to form the pluperfect, you start with the....'. Classic stuff. Sorry, reminiscing...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cheers.

[The Wizard]

Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ Nov. 26 2003,09:01)]Yes, like Caesar's 'De Bello Gallo', it has a certain ring to it.
It was De Bello Gallico:

De: about,

Bello: War, singular, genitivus

Gallico: Gallic, singular, genitivus as well..

"Of the Gallic War"

[Red Peasant]

Quote[/b] (Wizzy @ Nov. 26 2003,14:02)]
Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ Nov. 26 2003,09:01)]Yes, like Caesar's 'De Bello Gallo', it has a certain ring to it.
It was De Bello Gallico:

De: about,

Bello: War, singular, genitivus

Gallico: Gallic, singular, genitivus as well..

"Of the Gallic War"
Lol You are quite correct sir. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif My typing is as bad as my Latin it seems. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Taillefer]

' Deus Vult ' God wills it - the Crusaders cry could be offensive today to some,
- so I will not suggest it

Latin, beaten into us at school, under the good old cry of - ' it will be good
for you,' has fallen into the phillistine hands of the instant ersaz quotation junkies
(all present company excluded)

I demonstrate its use - as a second former, our much feared Latin master, who
ruled mercillesly, but only with the tongue, called on me to translate into English a
passage from the Hellenic Wars (?) which I did infront of the class correctly
and to my great satisfaction.

'' The face that launched a thousand ships '' Yes, yes, boy, - but what does it mean ?
Not a concept that immediately springs to the mind of 13 year old.
I wanted to think long and hard - well sir I dont know - come on boy you must have an idea:
favour us all with the benefit of the cream of the intellect .......(Sarcasm ever the weapon)
So under pressure, weeeel sir '' Helen was so ugly the army ran off and embarked. ''
I repeat this stumblebum because I deduced then that there is a limited correlation between
learning languages (dead(?) or modern) and developing cogitative reasoning.

Thinking of that master, I like the Latin quote :-

Homo homini lupus - Man is wolf to man.

But that is ultimately a very depressing view, and prefer the good simple English homile -
'' Be a radiator and not a drain.''

Taillefer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The Wizard]

I hate to be nitpicky, but - It was "Deus Volt"

It was a coniunctivus... I think... maybe I shouldn't be nitpicky this time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Taillefer]

Wizzy - Your conjecture is cunjunctivitis ?

Checked the quote again in Brewers and also in Chambers Dictionary and
both confirm 'deus vult' - God wills it. Which references back your viewpoint ?

Perhaps we are talking misuse of language even in Crusader times - we love to borrow,
beg and steal from and modify other languages. But I look to respected authorities.
Correct useage is not the issue - which is important is what phraseology and terms
did the Crusaders actualy use, whether correct useage or not.

Perhaps others can shed some light and 'radiate' turn on the 'volts' here.

Talliefer.

PS. Just try an experiment - this was a battlecry, so shout the two phrases at the
top of your voice. ( Dont scare the dog) Yes, there you go, you can project vult louder and
more aggressively. ' Volt' sounds rather thin (high tenor) and those guys were out to scare
Just a thought. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Boadecia (Boudicca) is giving me funny looks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Taillefer]

Wizzy - I did a little more digging on the internet and suggest the following confirm my position :-

Forum Romanum at http://www.forumromanum.org/latin/phrases-religious.html

and http://www.ctlibrary.com/3752

I also found some rather objectionable material when searching elsewhere for this phrase and I would like to disassociate myself and I hope this site from any of the sentiments expressed. Best if the phrase had been burried in the Middle Ages. I hope that no-one has taken offence within the context of a game and it certainly would not be a phrase I would ever care to use again even in jest.

Taillefer.

[The Wizard]

Quote[/b] (Taillefer @ Nov. 27 2003,14:20)]Wizzy - Your conjecture is cunjunctivitis ?

Checked the quote again in Brewers and also in Chambers Dictionary and
both confirm 'deus vult' - God wills it. Which references back your viewpoint ?

Perhaps we are talking misuse of language even in Crusader times - we love to borrow,
beg and steal from and modify other languages. But I look to respected authorities.
Correct useage is not the issue - which is important is what phraseology and terms
did the Crusaders actualy use, whether correct useage or not.

Perhaps others can shed some light and 'radiate' turn on the 'volts' here.

Talliefer.

PS. Just try an experiment - this was a battlecry, so shout the two phrases at the
top of your voice. ( Dont scare the dog) Yes, there you go, you can project vult louder and
more aggressively. ' Volt' sounds rather thin (high tenor) and those guys were out to scare
Just a thought. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Boadecia (Boudicca) is giving me funny looks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
The coniunctivus is another modus - you have the indicativus, and then there is the coniunctivus. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I'm sure you knew that tho http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Anyhoo, the verb used ('to want' ) is 'volere'... so why it became 'vult' when turned into a 3rd person indicativus praesens is a mystery... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Hurin_Rules]

A couple of things are going on here:

Vult is indeed the third person indicative active.

Volt is an alternative/archaic form of vult. So either is acceptable.

I also believe that Old French (the language most of the crusaders spoke) would be, Deus le volt. (could be wrong here, my OF is a bit rusty).

So, it can be variously:

Deus vult
Deus volt
Deus le volt

[The Wizard]

Just play some MTW, and wait 'till the pope preaches his 'mighty sermon' to begin the Crusades... above the window showing the event, you see "Deus Vult/Volt"

Anyhoo, I just realised volere was an irregular verb. Sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Taillefer]

Wizzy and Hurin,

Thanks for your helpful posts.

Cadit quaestio. (There is nothing more to discuss)

Taillefer.