Do you think femails shoud go in the milatery??

[eddie0909]

Ok im talking about contrys like United States,Australia,Canada,Greenland,United kingdom,France,Germany,Norway,Poland and Briten the most stable contrys ok.I think women shoud have the same rights as men bacuse none of thes contrys are fashous nazes or communst. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

PS.women do have the same rights but thay get the jobes like secatary and jobs like that its bull crap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif its like women get looked doune on. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[eddie0909]

PS.I think all of thes contrys shoud not be sexist,racest,fashous and thay shoud be punished harshy maby some fireing squads and some public hangings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif just kiding.And im talking about one of thes contrys im talking about all of them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Sigurd]

Some of the finest officers I know are women, and I am not talking about their looks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

They are excellent tacticians and strategists.
As to fighting hand to hand, I bet there are some that are really good, without me knowing of any…

[bosdur]

You should include GAH because I dont have a clear opinion on this one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

[eddie0909]

Hell thats where i met my girl frend at the marines she is VARY HOT GUYS i think shes the one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jayrock]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 13 2003,20:43)]Hell thats where i met my girl frend at the marines she is VARY HOT GUYS i think shes the one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
you gotta love a girl from the marines, she can defend your honor for a change...lol... personaly i love them in uniform....i used to have a field day with the ones i dated here, shed say i'm gonna put on something sexy and come over, it's like nah, just come in your fatigues, and we can strip wrestle.. man those were the days...

[Gaius Julius]

I have absolutely no problem with women in the military.
I say send them into battle first. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[pdoan8]

Quote[/b] (Sigurd Fafnesbane @ Mar. 13 2003,23:28)]They are excellent tacticians and strategists.
They could be if they put their mind into it.

I think because naturally, women are better planner, more careful, more organize.

and there must be something about their sixth sense (and maybe their way of thinking too), that make them so unpredictable and so hard to understand (at least my girl was).

[Muneyoshi]

Men trying to understand women, need I say more?

[el_slapper]

I voted yes, & regret it. My point is : if even women are doing war, mankind is doomed...

[Knight_Yellow]

yes they should be in the military but not the front line.

[TheViking]

I like women in uniform, I dont have any trouble with women in the military, but i dont want they to get hurt in wars

[SmokWawelski]

No.

[Kensai Achilles]

err uhhm protect women and children??

Exceptional female characters are different story. Not to mention military doctors, nurses, engineers, subterfuge units, humm maybe pilots too ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif uhh the list goes on.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 13 2003,23:11)]Ok im talking about contrys like United States,Australia,Canada,Greenland,United kingdom,France,Germany,Norway,Poland and Briten the most stable contrys ok
Hhhhmmm.

Classifying the USA and UK as stable countries in view of current events is probably akin to calling Iraq stable ...

... only IMHO of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[wordsmith]

I voted hell no, not because i dont think women can fight or i feel there is no place for them. But ive noticed that the majority of men lose IQ points when around women, guys will do stupid things and make mistakes that they wouldnt otherwise make with women around. So shure, women should go into the military, just not any military with guys in it.

[ICantSpellDawg]

holy crap - the spelling is killing me

im usually never bothered by trivial stuff, but it doesnt even seem like anyone notices how horrible it is

AHHHHHH

eddie probably hates me by now - this is the second time ive brought it up

[Juan Madsen]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 13 2003,23:11)]Ok im talking about contrys like United States,Australia,Canada,Greenland,United kingdom,France,Germany,Norway,Poland and Briten the most stable contrys ok.
Would you mind to include Spain as well?. We have more women in the military today than some of the other countries you have mentioned.

And also in the government.

Also Sweden and Denmark should have been in that list. And Netherland and Belgium.

[HopAlongBunny]

Yes or no; its a cultural thing. Voted yes, I mean there have been cultures that excluded men from battle for being too flighty, nervous and unreliable... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif If a woman chooses to go into the military then she should be able to.

[eddie0909]

I have good spelling now so what are you talking about? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Kongamato]

I believe that with the proper training, professional soldiery will be able to screen out any gender-related problems.

A more potent question for us would be whether the Government should conscript women as they would men, should the situation arise.

[rspete]

Women have been fighting for equal rights in this country for a long time and I believe they should have it, in this I am a core feminist. I do not believe, however, that women should have special privileges over men, as some branches of feminism tend to believe. If my draft number is ever drawn I will HAVE TO serve my country or suffer the consequences of my refusal, all the while certain individuals are sitting quietly behind and complaining that my entire gender is made up of chauvinistic sex fiends that deny them their equal rights. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think that chivalry and honor are very impractical concepts and thusly self- preservations is rather high on my list of objectives. So if a whiny feminist is going to be spreading her organs across some unpleasant battlefield instead of me it would be just fine and dandy. Equal rights for all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[eddie0909]

women shoud have some extra rights the men in the armed forces but thay shoud at lest have the same http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

[Swordsman]

Kongamoto & Rspete have hit the key issue. If you accept the premise that women are equally capable, then they should not have any OPTIONS that men don't also have.

Personally, my experience (a lotta years in the Army) has been favorable as far as mental toughness, leadership ability, etc., are concerned. Ratio of duds is about the same as men. Your mileage may vary. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

We must figure out a rational way to address the physical strength issues however. It's one of those things that just won't go away. A 6'2, 200 lb man is generally going to be able to handle his 80 lb. pack easier than a 5'4, 140 lb. woman.

[eddie0909]

so you where in the army what rank??

[Swordsman]

Started out as a PVT, made it to Staff Sergeant, went to Officer Candidate School and made it to Major before retiring. Did my share but no claim to fame. I don't pretend to be any ultimate spokesman about the military, but did get some pretty good training. And, like most everyone else, I've got strong opinions based on my experiences. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[eddie0909]

Thats cool sir im in the U.S Marine Corps im a lance corporal thats it im 18 and the only risen im a lance corporal is becuse i was in J.R.O.T.C in high school. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ps.my dad is a lieutenant colonel in the Marines and he is 39 now he whent to R.O.T.C in colleg

[Swordsman]

Hoo-rah.

But we better get back on topic before we are chastised http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Semper Fi

[Hamburglar]

I think a big factor in this is that women that want to join the military but don't want to get hurt.



Women have an easy way out - get pregnant. It's essentially what we in America call a million dollar wound - you're bad enough off that you can't be in the military but there's no real damage.


During the first US war with Iraq there was a ship in the Gulf that had an insane amount of pregnancies. A lot of the women did it to get out of being put in combat.



There's also the Infantry Combat factor. No matter what you say, women are generally going to be inferior to men in ground combat. As was said before, a REALLY REALLY STRONG woman still will have about as much trouble as an AVERAGE man of just carrying the gear. People can say its all a videogame now where people just push buttons and the enemy goes boom, but for the infantry a lot of its the same. Machine gun bullets still weigh a whole lot and if a woman can't carry the same load as a man then she shouldn't be out there.

The pregnancy factor still IS a very big deal though. I've talked to veterans and they always say no matter if you're winning or losing, slogging it out on the ground as a grunt is ALWAYS BAD. People WANT TO GET OUT. And women have a really easy way to get out by just getting pregnant.


I honestly can't see women performing the same as males in infantry roles, or even in most combat roles. Sure, there may be the same amount of duds in men and women but the women duds have an easy way to get out of it.

[eddie0909]

i have a queshon why havent i goten prmoted yet at the guild http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[ichi]

Eddie: Can you understand that the question itself says a lot about us? Show we allow women? I think that people are people, black or white, male or female, and no one should 'decide' for another what they can or cannot do.

Are the women in question patriots? Do they wish to fight? Can they help?

Then why not. Who the h#ll am I, or you, to say 'no, you can't, cause you are a girl'.

As to the idea that a really great woman can match an average man, GAH I say GAH to you. I work in a field that is very much like military, except that we do not kill (although we sometimes get killed). Same argument was made when women first joined our ranks, but after many years there are women who KICK ASS.

Finally, I'm glad the issue of spelling has come up. Sometimes its hard to follow what a person is writing 'cause the spelling is so bad.

*Climbs down off his soapbox, takes a hit of whiskey, looks in mirror and realizes he is a cranky old dude. GAH*

ichi

[eddie0909]

hay im not agenced no one i think every one shoud have the same righs no madder about skin,race and sex IT IS RONG TOTALY RONG http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif if you are one of thos cind of peopol the world can do better whith out them ok http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 14 2003,16:24)]Ps.my dad is a lieutenant colonel in the Marines and he is 39 now he whent to R.O.T.C in colleg
Did the USMC teach him how to spell?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[eddie0909]

Vary funny wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif thats the only thing that i suck at http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[eddie0909]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 14 2003,23:47)]Vary funny wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif thats the only thing that i suck at http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
And i can still pop your littel head of well over 1000yards with my sniper rifle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif just playing around http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 14 2003,23:47)]Vary funny wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif thats the only thing that i suck at http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
You aint too bad eddie - I've seen a LOT worse spelling

Nice to see you back with us http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[eddie0909]

thanks wellington you have a nice day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kekvit Irae]

Being in the Army myself, I can safely say that the United States allows women in the military (duh). It's just that they are not allowed to join any combat arms like Infantry or Armor.
Is this fair? No. Women can be just as capable as men in many regards, but still have to pass the rigorous training that combat arms requires. Those who fail should get transfered to the Air Force where all the other pansies go (yes, I'm biased).
Army Infantry training is like Marine boot camp... on crack. Not only do you have to deal with buffed up Drill Sergeants (that often got their combat and training experience in the Marines), but you are required to run FIVE miles to graduate (in addition to the two miles required for the APFT).
If any women can succeed physically and mentally and still graduate, by all means, let them wear the blue cord of the Infantry. If they enjoy being cooped up in a death trap the size of a small bathroom for several hours at a time, by all means, let them join Armor.

EDIT: But what if someone was living in Naze, Japan? Would they be Nazes? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Magraev]

I believe they should go into the army. But I think it's important to make the distribution equal as far as possible in all areas (navy, army, airforce etc.).

In Denmark (and I'm sure elsewhere) women in the army face sexual harassment on a regular basis. It's no picknick being the only female in range of 49 horny young guys on a long excersise (sp?). Only equal numbers can protect them from the flower of the danish youth http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (Magraev @ Nov. 21 2003,02:41)]I believe they should go into the army. But I think it's important to make the distribution equal as far as possible in all areas (navy, army, airforce etc.).
Here in the US, there's no such thing as equal distribution. You choose which branch of the service you wish to enter, which leads to plenty of people avoiding military service by going into the Air Force. *snicker* Ok, enough Air Force jokes. Even in times of the draft, you are allowed to pick which branch to serve. Unfortunately, the public view of the military does not extend past basic training, hense the reason why more people join the Navy, Coast Guard, or Air Force nowadays and not the Army or Marines, which is sad because all five branches have a wide distribution of jobs to choose from.
But there is a problem with enforcing equal distribution... here, we have a system where if you and a friend or family member signs up together for the same job (MOS) and same branch, you will be assigned to be in the same unit together. If equal distribution was in play, it's most likely you will be transfered to an entirely different branch.

[Magraev]

I see the problem. Somehow you just have to avoid that women are massively underrepresented in any area.

I don't know if this is very realistic though, I think more men than women want to join, especially if the army is professional and not based on drafting recruits.

[chris]

personally, I don't see how any husband would let his wife go into the military, and i think mothers shouldn't. Single women, my opion isnt stable on this really, but take a look at men. By nature we are built to be stonger. Now mentally...lol, but men in gernerall just are. I aint saying women cant take it, i know they can, but should they? Adn another reason, men have alot less of a chance getting raped from some idiot

[BDC]

I have no probs with women planning stuff, being in the air force or navy, just I think men are physically better at fighting close up than women.

[DojoRat]

I wonder how many infantry men are 6' and 200 lbs. I would guess less than half, if that. And maybe we shouldn't be trying to fit women into the male warrior ideal but adapt the role to take advantage of the assets we have. I don't know how this would work, but if women want to serve then we should find a way to utilize them. Does everyone have to carry x amount of pounds to be effective? What about recon, snipers and other tasks that require endurance and patience in addition to strength?

I've never served in the military but have fought some capable women in the dojo. If given the choice I would rather carry a bit more weight and have someone in my unit I could depend on than just a squad full of big lunks.

[Kongamato]

Here's a question for you: if you were to write a new draft bill, would you draft women into the military, given there are positions they could fill?

This opens up a whole new can of worms. Homefront issues, maternity, intentional pregnancies... would you consider it?

[DojoRat]

Good question. Answer, yes. I know it raises a lot of thorny issues but if there is a need for a military draft women would have to have a role. Yes, it would freak people out to know there daughters might be put in harms way. But I say GOOD. The thought of war should freak people out.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (DojoRat @ Nov. 21 2003,15:11)]I've never served in the military but have fought some capable women in the dojo.
Killing little pixel men is a whole lot easier than aiming the cold iron sights of your M16A2 down on a living being and pulling the trigger.

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Nov. 22 2003,10:06)]
Quote[/b] (DojoRat @ Nov. 21 2003,15:11)]I've never served in the military but have fought some capable women in the dojo.
Killing little pixel men is a whole lot easier than aiming the cold iron sights of your M16A2 down on a living being and pulling the trigger.
And what makes you believe it´s for men any easier than for women?

[Teutonic Knight]

it depends, what do you mean by the question? do you mean should they allowed in ground combat, or just the military?

I say no to ground combat, but it's a bit late to be banning them from the military altogether now ain't it?


(now, I'm not one to talk, but you might to work on that spelling a bit m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

[Dimeola]

Yes, but in a special unit...the PMS Brigade. For several days each month they would be unstoppable.
D

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Nov. 22 2003,13:57)]And what makes you believe it´s for men any easier than for women?
And what makes you think I am implying that it's easier for men?

[HawaiianHobbit]

I don't have a problem with women planing stuff or being nurses/doctors but I don't think they should be in ground combat because men are usaully better at fighting close up and carrying all the stuff they need. Also I wouldn't want them distacting all the males. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[DojoRat]

Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Nov. 22 2003,03:06)]
Quote[/b] (DojoRat @ Nov. 21 2003,15:11)]I've never served in the military but have fought some capable women in the dojo.
Killing little pixel men is a whole lot easier than aiming the cold iron sights of your M16A2 down on a living being and pulling the trigger.
By Dojo I meant fighting an actual person in an actual Karate school. I don't equate that with military experience but if a women doesn't flinch at my technique and makes the proper block and counter there is a good chance another women could respond with a cool head on the battlefield.

Isn't that the what you want most from a soldier, the ability to remain calm (relatively) under fire?

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Nov. 23 2003,01:36)]
Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Nov. 22 2003,13:57)]And what makes you believe it´s for men any easier than for women?
And what makes you think I am implying that it's easier for men?
Oh, I thought you mean because it´s so difficult women can´t do it and can therefore not be good soldiers.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (DojoRat @ Nov. 24 2003,15:12)]By Dojo I meant fighting an actual person in an actual Karate school. I don't equate that with military experience but if a women doesn't flinch at my technique and makes the proper block and counter there is a good chance another women could respond with a cool head on the battlefield.

Isn't that the what you want most from a soldier, the ability to remain calm (relatively) under fire?
Ah, forgive my mistake then. But I still stand by my previous statement. A cool head on the battlefield means nothing if you have to hesitate before firing to think about the life you are about to take.
No matter how much discipline you have, no matter how much training you recieved, everyone flinches, if only for the first time. Everyone.
If they dont, prison is where they should belong, not the military, because they are not human.

I dont think I made myself clear, but I'm tired and I'm not very good at expressing my thoughts on paper.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Nov. 24 2003,15:20)]Oh, I thought you mean because it´s so difficult women can´t do it and can therefore not be good soldiers.
I'm the last person to say that.

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (kekvitirae @ Nov. 24 2003,19:21)]A cool head on the battlefield means nothing if you have to hesitate before firing to think about the life you are about to take.
No matter how much discipline you have, no matter how much training you recieved, everyone flinches, if only for the first time. Everyone.
If they dont, prison is where they should belong, not the military, because they are not human.
why do you think that is Kek?

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (Teutonic Knight @ Nov. 24 2003,19:24)]why do you think that is Kek?
Taking another's life sparks a human emotion within the mind, mentally telling them what they are doing is wrong. To reflect upon this is to be human, and can be seen as normal by veterans of battle, or depending on situation.
However, murderers and psychopaths either ignore those emotions completely, or revel in it, hense the prison remark.
It is said that the best military men and women are those who take lives with a heavy heart, not those who take them with a wide grin.

EDIT: Yay 200th post, and my portrait finally changed

[DojoRat]

A final thought or two. In the average American high school class you would find a much higher percentage, overwhelming maybe, of boys who were capable of becoming good combat soldiers. This probably means it's not worth the effort to change the system. But I would also say the number of girls capable of serving has increased in the last twentyfive years and will continue to increase over the next twentyfive. This is an issue that won't go away.

[Dhepee]

There was an article on a woman who was recently decorated for combat actions, Article on Female Soldier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7180-2003Nov22.html). Apparently a lot of women who want to fight go into the Military Police because it is where they have the greatest chance of seeing combat. Sounds like she was a pretty capable soldier. There was also an article on a woman who is a Drill Instructor at Fort Benning, it was from a few years ago in the NYTimes Magazine. It seems that gradually more and more women are wanting to do the same jobs as men and that those that are capable of enduring the hardships are doing quite well. However the selection process for women going into combat might need to be more rigourous than for men because men are generally stronger than women.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (Dhepee @ Nov. 25 2003,09:04)]There was an article on a woman who was recently decorated for combat actions, Article on Female Soldier (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7180-2003Nov22.html). Apparently a lot of women who want to fight go into the Military Police because it is where they have the greatest chance of seeing combat. Sounds like she was a pretty capable soldier. There was also an article on a woman who is a Drill Instructor at Fort Benning, it was from a few years ago in the NYTimes Magazine. It seems that gradually more and more women are wanting to do the same jobs as men and that those that are capable of enduring the hardships are doing quite well. However the selection process for women going into combat might need to be more rigourous than for men because men are generally stronger than women.
I agree on the fact that women have a much better chance at seeing combat as an MP, but the majority of the problems they will deal with is dealing with drunk soldiers returning from leave, especially since nowadays the Infantry are the main police force in foreign occupied territories.
And women Drill Sergeants (Drill Instructors are Marines) are some of the fiercest, scariest women you'll ever meet in the Army. Trust me, I know from experience. But like all Drill Sergeants, they can be caring and supportive as well. They are not your friends, but they are not your enemies either. They simply desire for you to be the best dang soldier ever.

[Kekvit Irae]

Quote[/b] (DojoRat @ Nov. 25 2003,08:02)]A final thought or two. In the average American high school class you would find a much higher percentage, overwhelming maybe, of boys who were capable of becoming good combat soldiers. This probably means it's not worth the effort to change the system. But I would also say the number of girls capable of serving has increased in the last twentyfive years and will continue to increase over the next twentyfive. This is an issue that won't go away.
I have no doubts in my mind that there are more men who are combat-ready than women, but as you've said before, the number of women who are combat-ready is increasing. In my honest opinion, I would not deny these women the chance to put their full potential to good use.

[Dhepee]

I think that women in combat is not a bad idea but it should be done on a case by case basis, a bit like when a man applies to join Special Forces or the Rangers. The woman should be evaluated to make sure that she can handle the physical burdens as a male soldier.

[Parmenio]

Technological advances in weapons increasingly negate the need for physical strength. There seems no reason to bar women from miltary roles that do not stress physical strength and endurance.