View Full Version : Creative Assembly Crusade v. Crusade: Bug or Feature?
Alex Scherr
09-06-2002, 20:16
I created a huge Crusade as Spain, headed to Palestine. A year later, Germany announced a crusade to the same province. So I thought, "a race, and I'll win because I've got the African coast sewn up, and shipping to move troops quickly."
As soon as I got to Palestine (and took it easily), my armies appeared, and the Crusade cross disappeared: standard operating procedure, and screw the Germans.
Two years later, when changing years, I got a message saying that I had been bumped from Palestine. A German army about 1/3 the size of mine now occupied Palestine, with no opportunity to battle them for it. My crusade cross had reappeared in its source province, Castile, and I had lost all of the glorious achievement points I had gained by winning the Crusade in the first place.
Worse, I can't move the previous Crusade cross anywhere, not to Palestine, not by sea, not even to a next-door province. I can't drop new troops on it. It's dead, and remained dead even after I retook Palestine (in one move) from the Germans.
I can create a new Crusade, but can't select Palestine as its target. AND when I select another target, two moves later the Germans announce a Crusade to the same province.
What gives? Can I reactivate my crusade for Palestine? Will the second crusade always take over from the first crusade to win? So that it's a race to be second, and bump the first winner?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks,
Alex
Mithrandir
09-06-2002, 20:18
Take germany,kill the pope and sacrifice a virgin to hope it'll work?
------------------
Alex Scherr
09-06-2002, 20:26
Thanks, Mithrandir, but: where are the virgins in the tech tree? Are brothels a first step . . . ?
And do I use an assassin, a spy or a princess to perform the sacrifice? Personally, I think the princesses would do the most interesting job of it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Any other thoughts? Anyone?
Alex
Arkatreides
09-06-2002, 20:35
I bloody well hope those princesses are virgins!
Come off it Alex: brothels won't be much use if you want virgins! Now if there were nunneries in the game.... but of course even that would not guarantee virginity.
eat cold steel
09-06-2002, 21:51
What should have happen is after you crusade gets there and took the region, the German crusade is allowed to carry as it is to the holy land. Once the German force arrived, you should have a parchment asking you to hand over the region. This is the only time you can say no to a crusade and not get excommunicated as it is your glory goal. If you say no then you'll have to fight it out, if you say yes hand over or lose the battle after saying no then everything should happens as you have describe, you lose the holy land, crusade marker (the small cross) goes back to your chapter house and you can start a crusade again from scarch - you can't sent it back to Palestine because it would have disappear as a goal because another Catholic faction holds it.
I suspect you skipped that parchment by pressing space to skip the other event parchments? Pressing space is the same as clicking on yes on dialog parchments. Reload an older save game to see if they ask you to hand over the region.
Alex Scherr
09-06-2002, 22:48
eat cold steel: you're probably right. I can't recall whether I rejected such a message from the Germans. If I did space bar over it, it would have defaulted to yes, rather than no, which would explain the bump. And OH WELL, no earlier save game: I went on for a while with the campaign otherwise.
As to virgins in a brothel, well, maybe if I look REALLY early in the game . . . otherwise, I suspect I'll have to go to a church.
Now that I think of it, Mithrandir didn't specify female virgins, so perhaps a monastery would be more help. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
Thanks again, I'll try that out the next time.
Alex
Dionysus9
09-06-2002, 22:55
These CA guys are great.
DragonCat
09-06-2002, 22:57
Actually, brothels were excellent places to buy virgins. . .
Odd thing is, the same virgins were often bought several times . . .
------------------
DragonCat
. . . on the prowl!
Kraellin
09-07-2002, 00:56
rofl. i can see dragoncat has been to mexico ;)
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
[This message has been edited by Kraellin (edited 09-06-2002).]
If you allow the crusade move through your land, it will take the target province without asking for your permition. That happened to me twice.
Playing as Spain (early period - GA), I have spent nearly 100 years to prepare for the Crusades. From the beginning, I built up, expanded and managed to extent the sea route to Antioch, Palestine (target provinces) coastline. From 1186 to 1200, I successfully launched 4 Crusades and captured all 4 objectives: Antioch (1189), Tripoli (1193), Palestine (1196) and Edessa (1200).
In 1199, The French (neutral fraction) launched a Crusade and the target was Edessa, the last target province that was under heavy siege by my troops in the same year. The French Crusade started in Flanders then moved throught my land, Anjou and Toulouse (I allowed them to pass through my land), to Southern Europe to take the sea route to Edessa by landing on Antioch (also mine). It took 4 years for the French to reach Edessa, which by then was mine for 3 years already. The French met no challenge to take Edessa. They just simply evicted me (all of my troops were sent to the nearest province) and I revieved a message said that I lost the sanctuary and would have to start again.
Only 2 year after, in 1205, the Egyptian declared a Jihad to reclaim Edessa. Started from Syria, the Egyptian Jihad successfully beat the French garrison and reclaimed Edessa in 1207
In 1209, I launched the second Crusade toward Edessa (no longer a glory achievement goal). Again, it took me only 3 years to capture Edessa for the second time. However, once again in 1211, the French launched another Crusade to take Edessa, which was under siege and almost fall to my troops at that time. Taking the same route, the same number of years, the French just simply evicted me once again and took Edessa without losing a single soldier to the enemy.
So, any guess on why the Pope did not recall the Crusade once the province has been captured by a Catholic fraction? and why the other fraction Crusade is able to evict the owner and take the province so easily?
Edited to correct some names.
[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 09-11-2002).]
I have a problem with multiple crusades. I was the HRE and had been excommunicated. The Brits crusaded for Saxony , the next year they launched another one for Austria. That same year the French launched one at Saxony, and the following year Austria.
I don't mind so much the both crusdeing against me but I really dislike one AI faction launching two crusades like that because my border garrisons can't handle four thousand plus armies plus the follow up invasions that well.
Quote Originally posted by spmetla:
I have a problem with multiple crusades. I was the HRE and had been excommunicated. The Brits crusaded for Saxony , the next year they launched another one for Austria. That same year the French launched one at Saxony, and the following year Austria.
I don't mind so much the both crusdeing against me but I really dislike one AI faction launching two crusades like that because my border garrisons can't handle four thousand plus armies plus the follow up invasions that well. [/QUOTE]
That's just plain tough luck matey! It's like saying i don't mind crusades as long as they don't cause me any trouble. lol, some people! Just accept it and try to deal with it as best you can and maybe you'll think twice about getting excommunicated in the future?
------------------
=MizuDoc Otomo=
maddog0606
09-11-2002, 19:08
Germany (HRE) is in a bad position when it comes to Crusades. I can handle the ones aimed at me (I have finally learned the lesson of how to build the correct infastructure and trade and have the money and manpower to defeat any crusade army). The ones passing through irritate me the most. I've had 5 pass through my lands in less then 30 years. One English, one Spainish, and three (yes three) from the Italians. I am getting a strong urge to crush the Italians just so I can stop the Crusades they keep sending through my lands (and stealing my troops) to the Middle East. I don't care about excommunications. I took the head of the Pope once after I was told to knock it off for defending myself against the Poles, Hungarians, and Sicilians (all attacked at the same time, and all cease to exist) and I'll do it again if his sucessor opens his Papal mouth to complain. I didn't even bother keeping the Popes lands. I just razed them (after defeating the Pope) and left. It makes it easier to come back later when he irritates me.
I got a Crusade on me as the British without being Excommed...
Not funny when you are getting your ass kicked by the Almohads (damn AUM) and you are at war with both the resurfaced French (who has an impossibly good force) and the HRE (kicked my ass as well because I sent a force ravaging their hinterlands hehe).
I seriously needed the Italians as my allies, and I needed the Danes even more, sad they joined the Italians...
------------------
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Kraellin
09-12-2002, 00:27
the crusades are a little weird, and so is the excommunication thing. i raised a crusade, playing as the english, against palestine, then held by the egyptians, and started it overland rather than sea so i could pick up some men and raid some troublesome neighbors as i went. i found one place where i could simply go back and forth between two provinces without having to advance any further. i found another place that shld have had 3 options for going forward, but only had two. i also had a province attacked where the crusade was sitting and it did nothing to help defend. that last one kind of irked me, but i also understand that this is a 'holy' army and not comprised of just my own faction's men. ok.
what really gets my goat though, is i'm sitting in sweden as the owner. i took it long ago from rebels, not the danes, but rebels and have held it and built it up nicely and so on, and along come the danes who decide they shld own it and attack and I get a message from the pope saying i'll be ex-comm'ed if i dont quit attacking the danes!?! that one bites rocks. so i continue to defend MY province and sure enough, i'm excommunicated. apparently what happens here, is that my guys didnt defend well enough on the first attack and head for the castle. this gives the province to the danes, though the castle is still held by me. ok, fair enough. but when i bring in re-inforcements to save my men, and my originally owned province, i get beaned by the pope. that just doesnt seem quite right to me. i understand the mechanics of what's going on, i just dont agree that it shld work that way. if a province is being contested, and it is still contested because you cant build any units or buildings there till the siege ends, then the program shld recognize this. when i pull the same thing on someone else, i'm still the one that gets the warning from the pope, so this seems to be a case of not having your cake and not eating it too. why werent the danes ex-comm'ed for attacking me, the english? nah, this aint right.
i wouldnt even mind if the pope warned both of us, regardless of who the aggressor was, and excomm'ed both of us, like your mother used to do when you were kids; she didnt care who started it, she just wanted it stopped ;)
i love the idea of the crusades and i love the pope's influence as being a VERY strong factor in the game, but we've got a few kinks to iron out here.
edit: and having just played some more, here's another one on my wtf? list: blockades are hostile, aggressive actions and shld be treated THE SAME AS any other hostile military action, with the pope excommunicating those that dont remove the blockade. this is a game killer. you've got thousands of florins coming in in trade income, some enemy blockades your trade, you attack and are warned by the pope to stop, but the enemy takes no penalty from the pope as long as he doesnt actively attack you! but your income goes to pot, you cant move your troops around and if you retaliate at all, that nice detente you've been holding in place, juggling all those alliances, suddenly flies apart because you fought back and got creamed by the pope.
yes, i know there are 'work-arounds', like bumping off the pope, but that's just it, it's a work-around. it shldnt happen in the first place.
i've run across this twice now and by trying to remove this enemy by going ahead and attacking and consequently getting ex-comm'ed, it just really threw the game to hell and gone. having saved all along i could just go back and play it differently, but jeez-louise, i mean, all hell broke loose. lol. it was actually kind of funny trying to put down crusades, riots, civil wars, several allies turning to enemies, several more allies going neutral, invasions in 3 different locations, wrecked income, wrecked buildings, massive german invasions of england without the use of boats. talk about yer domino effects...man!
i finally gave it up after the third civil war in england, even though i may have still been able to recover, but the date was getting too late and i knew i couldnt win it.
i just went back in the save game list by a few saves and took some precautions against the dane betrayal in the first place. but i still cant attack that one little idiot ship blocking my trade routes or i get excommunicated and he hit me first, mom!
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
[This message has been edited by Kraellin (edited 09-11-2002).]
You realize that a faction that is half your size or less wont get ex'ed for attacking you. Understand that the pope's objective is not to stop all catholics from fighting each other, but to deter the large factions from wiping out smaller ones and keeping factions from becoming too powerful. If you're less than half the size of a bigger factions, you can attack them all you want http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Kraellin
09-12-2002, 10:13
xiahou,
where is that stated? i mean, it actually sounds about like the way the game plays, but what's the reference you're using here?
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Quote That's just plain tough luck matey! It's like saying i don't mind crusades as long as they don't cause me any trouble. lol, some people! Just accept it and try to deal with it as best you can and maybe you'll think twice about getting excommunicated in the future?
[/QUOTE]
But I got excommunicated for retaking Provence from the French.
I honestly think the Pope is playing favs with the french.
Quote Originally posted by spmetla:
But I got excommunicated for retaking Provence from the French.
I honestly think the Pope is playing favs with the french. [/QUOTE]
Yes, but how big is your faction compared to the French? The Pope always favours the smaller factions. I think it goes something along the lines of if you are attacking the French and they are 50% your size, expect rough treatment from the pope. They can attack you without the same fear of retaliatory excommunication.
Hope that clears things for you. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I have a strange crusade tale too. I was playing Turks. A few years after i've conquered Constantinople, Italians declared a crusade to Constantinople. I placed huge armies on its way as i had largest military force on that time and that crusade never came close.
It stayed there for years and i had to keep my armies in place for years.
[This message has been edited by Ottoman (edited 09-12-2002).]
Kraellin
09-13-2002, 05:18
ok. nobody has yet quoted me the source of this thing with the pope favoring smaller, less powerful factions, but i decided to continue my game today as if that were indeed the case. since i couldnt attack the danes that were blockading my trade route directly, i decided to simply assassinate their king. hehehe...worked nicely, and i got the rebel province that resulted. lol.
so, ok, even though no one has yet quoted the source of this thing about the pope, i guess i can live with it since there are work-arounds and, if this underdog thing is indeed true, then i'll also be able to use it when i'm that underdog.
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Longjohn once made a long post on this bussiness about the Excomms.
Enemy has to be 50% smaller than you, no matter how or who starts the war, YOU get the Excomm.
Get Excommed and kill the Pope is a possibility, or kill your own king.
------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Kraellin
09-13-2002, 07:52
ah, ok. thanks :)
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Lastly... You are not allowed to sally out from a castle if you lose a province, then the Pope might Excomm. you. Not very good.
------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Kraellin
09-13-2002, 20:19
kraxis,
hadnt run into that one yet. but that falls into the same category i'm talking about. doesnt seem quite right that it would work that way.
one idea for all this, though it may be a bit of work programming wise, would be to have popes that work differently all within the same game. bump one off and the new one acts differently than the last one...policy change thru assassination, an old, tried and true method for affecting changes. the caveat would be that you may not get what you were after, and in fact, you may get one that is even worse, particularly towards your faction if your assassin was discovered as to which faction he was working for. hardly a patch item, but maybe an ex-pack item.
K.
------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Yeah, perhaps the not-sallying is a bit harsh, but I don't mind really.
------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Dwimmerlaik
09-13-2002, 22:24
This is slightly OT..
Kraxis! Du er danske! Jeg har toget til Danmark fra 4 maneder siden og de var meget meget sjovt. Hvordan gor Dronning Margrete?
Eeek! My Danish is sooo rusty :-/
Because I always play the HRE I'm always surrounded by Catholics. my lack of seaports mean Expansion is limited.
Because of all the catholics and because they are all smaller than me I can never attack anyone without getting excommuinicated. I also can't reclaim land that they took from me. It just ain't fair. The only solution I've ever had is to invade all italy and keep the pope down. But then I can't launch crusades myself which sucks beause it's a nice way to expand.
Please change the pope a little in a patch, I'm really tired of being so deadlocked that I can't do anything.
Quote Originally posted by eat cold steel:
What should have happen is after you crusade gets there and took the region, the German crusade is allowed to carry as it is to the holy land. Once the German force arrived, you should have a parchment asking you to hand over the region. This is the only time you can say no to a crusade and not get excommunicated as it is your glory goal. If you say no then you'll have to fight it out, if you say yes hand over or lose the battle after saying no then everything should happens as you have describe, you lose the holy land, crusade marker (the small cross) goes back to your chapter house and you can start a crusade again from scarch - you can't sent it back to Palestine because it would have disappear as a goal because another Catholic faction holds it.
[/QUOTE]
That's not what happened to me. When my (English) Crusade and the French Crusade reached Palestine we kept trading it back and forth until finally the muslim forces besieged in Jerusalem folded. And then the game took that as a declaration of war between France and England.
Giving the provice to the French did not remove my Crusade. It sat there, and then the next turn they'd give it back to be, and back and forth, back and forth. Neither crusade was returned to its home province.
Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
rofl. i can see dragoncat has been to mexico http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
K.
[/QUOTE]
What are you trying to say, eh PUNK!?!
Actually, the surgery to repair hymens was developed in, and only precticed in, Europe. What does that tell you?
Jaguara
------------------
Toda Nebuchadnezzar : " http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif Trust Jaguara to come up with a comedy line!"
james : "[Jaguara] your are being sarcastic (no question about it)."
Quote Originally posted by spmetla:
Because I always play the HRE I'm always surrounded by Catholics. my lack of seaports mean Expansion is limited.
Because of all the catholics and because they are all smaller than me I can never attack anyone without getting excommuinicated. I also can't reclaim land that they took from me. It just ain't fair. The only solution I've ever had is to invade all italy and keep the pope down. But then I can't launch crusades myself which sucks beause it's a nice way to expand.
Please change the pope a little in a patch, I'm really tired of being so deadlocked that I can't do anything. [/QUOTE]
1) There is no reason you can't take Denmark in two turns - win the battle, assault the castle - no excommunication. Then easy to expand to Sweden and Norway.
2) HRE has a province on the Med. No reason you can't build up fleets, go after Byzant islands or send Crusades to the Holy Land.
3) Warnings from the Pope are good for 10 years. So attack two or three provinces in one year. Rest 10 years, attack again. No reason you can't expand 2 or 3 provinces every 10 years until you get big enough you don't care whether you are excommunicated or not http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
4) Build a port on the North Sea in Friesland. Invade Scotland and Ireland. No reason you can't do this.
You are NOT locked in by any means.
Grifman
[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 09-27-2002).]
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.