Respawning factions ruining the game

[Action]

Im playing expert. Generally, the game is a decent challenge, when it comes to fighting other factions, keeping population happy etc..

I haven't had a peasant revolt in 50 years or more and its 1190 in my game and I have a huge empire. I build massive amounts of churches, bishops and I check the god damn tax/loyalty rate for every province every turn (annoying) furthermore, I have around 200 troops in every province. This keeps the peasants in line. Scotland has only rebeled 1x and I've owned it since like turn 4. Normal, preventable rebels are FINE, I've never had a problem with them, since you can take steps to prevent them.

But the respawning factions seem to be completely random, and they really ruin the game. They spawn with super strong stacks and spawn way too often. I love a challenge, but it has to be one I can plan for. Sorry, but if CA's idea of a challenge is randomly spawning super stacks, well I say no thanks.

I just got done with a turn where I fought literally 5 battles none of them auto resolved. Then, after all the other messages I get the news that the Almohads have respawned and are attacking 6 provinces. Most of these have huge stacks. This has happened so many times, and I just reloaded and changed one or two things to get a different random number, but this time I lost at least an hour of battles. It's not worth putting up with again.

Is there any way to prevent respawning factions, becuase otherwise I think I'll scrap this campaign play a couple historical campaigns instead, this is just sad. Im not gonna lose another couple hours to this, and I'm not gonna fight a zillion stupid battles against respawning factions either.


[This message has been edited by Action (edited 08-29-2002).]

[Papewaio]

In STW I there had to be a rebellion for the faction to return as part of.

Are the Almohad/Factions returning in their starting provinces?

Are you having any problems with countering enemy assassins and spies?

How many spies are you using?

[ToranagaSama]

Yeah, I here ya, the 899 rebel stacks are "seemingly" ridiculous, and appear to be in need of a fix, then again maybe not--too early to tell.

My suggestion is to notch the difficulty down a notch or two (for the moment).

I play STW-MI on Expert (and surprise myself as I sometimes think it easy or at least "normal"). So, I did similarly as you and started my first game of MTW, by notching down to "Hard", just to be safe.

Of course, MTW isn't STW-MI, and I make all the initial newbie mistakes, and then the 899 rebel stacks start poping up while all my provinces are GREEN! (I also, initially, thought morale was broken too easily (having 2nd thoughts on this). So, I say screw this and decide to hit the manual, maybe I missed a few things on the first skim.

After giving the manual a second "skim", I decide to start a new campaign and rachet down to "Normal" (can't stomach the thought of Easy). First game was the Byzintine (sp?), the second is the English (which on Normal is supposed to be "Hard"....hmmm).

With the new found knowledge, things are proceeding quite challengingly, but w/o the 899 rebel stacks.

The one bit of info worth reading thru all the above is this, to avoid rebellions w/o maintaining a huge army forever. After conquering a new provice, watch your loyalty rating, each turn, just keep enough troops to maintain loyalty at 200. Maintain 200 for 5-10 turns (haven't yet determined the exact number), afterward all the provice will need is 100-200 troops and its Lord/King/Prince/whatever; and often not even the troops, just the L/K/P/whatever.

Yup, the 899 rebel stacks make the game unenjoyable, but, notch it down some, with MTW on Expert we're all just Newbies!

[Action]

Quote Originally posted by Papewaio:
1)In STW I there had to be a rebellion for the faction to return as part of.
2)Are the Almohad/Factions returning in their starting provinces?
3)Are you having any problems with countering enemy assassins and spies?
4)How many spies are you using?[/QUOTE]

1) Well, I think they may have changed that, when dead factions respawn I usually don't see any rebels.
2) Usually but they have returned in Portugal and Leon too. They've been wiped out for years now and all their provinces which were 100% moslem are now mainly Christian.
3) No not at all, from my one campaign's experience, the AI hardly uses special units on expert. I've had two units assassinated all game.
4)I'm not using that many spies, because of number 3.

And yeah Toronaga I may have to bump down the difficulty, but that would be disapointing, since I'm not having any major problems with exepert besides this, and I like the AI to be as good as it can be.



[This message has been edited by Action (edited 08-29-2002).]

[Papewaio]

Try getting your loyalty as high as possible.

On Expert in STW I try for a minimum of about 160 in my initial provinces and I don't mind hovering around the 300 mark.

I typically have one spy per province and deploy extra ones on top of this in zones that I have been successfully assassinated. When attacking provinces I typically send in 3 to 5 spies to help get the loyalty up. This allows me to have a larger mobile spearhead with a smaller garrison supported by spies.

Of course this is for STW, when I get MTW I will be able to refine those tactics to it.

[Kraellin]

notching yourself down to 'normal' wont prevent factions from re-spawning in your provinces. the higher loyalty may. i've just had my first re-spawn occur and it occured in provinces that were all 100% or better 'loyal', but just barely over 100%. i'm also guessing that, having had no agents of any kind in those provinces to prevent this sort of unrest may have been a factor. if you look at the agent list and notice their missions when in a friendly province, they always say 'counterspying'. this ..shld.. help prevent the re-spawn thing, but i'll have to run some tests to see if it's true.

the message i got when this re-spawn showed up, was something like, 'whereas you killed off all the novgorods, you missed killing one of the key heirs to their old throne and he has managed to stir up support for his cause'...that's a very loose quote, but the jist of it is right. so i would think a larger loyalty rating and some assassins as counter-spies would help prevent these occurences. i was playing the loyalty factor pretty close to the 100% mark to try and save money on garrison support, but i'll be changing that tactic from here on out.

one of the dev guys made a comment about loyalty ratings somewhere here in the .org and said something to the effect that 100% loyalty in a province doesnt really mean 100% loyalty, that it's only a very loose indicator of true loyalty. if we extrapolate from that there are MANY types of disloyaties and that the STATED loyalty rating is an AVERAGE of all the different types of loyalty ratings, then we can see that ONE type of rating might indeed produce one type of rebellion, even if all of the other types of loyalties are 'in the green'. i've no real confirmation of any of this, but it does seem somewhat logical and i'll be re-thinking my tactics now in handling these sorts of things.

K.


------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[DoJo MoJo I]

The respawning thing, with Huge Killer Stacks, especially in Rome, has really killed my Early Period Campaign Normal Difficulty Game at 1255 AD as well.

I cannot Garrison every province with a huge Army.

I do have several Assassins in each province as well as at least, and often more then 150+% loyality and a normal Tax rate, which clearly means nothing, and like so much in the Game is just more nonfunctional Busywork Chrome.

Note BTW: Kraellin posting that a Developer Guy said " 100% loyality doesn`t really mean 100% loyality" forces me to ask...then what`s the use of the Loyality Report tool anyway...?



[This message has been edited by DoJo MoJo I (edited 08-29-2002).]

[solypsist]

respawning is an okay feature, but i think we only need it to happen once, if ever.

[Ckrisz]

The strategy guide recommends leaving factions weakened, with one or two provinces, but to avoid taking all of them to avoid such faction 'returns' until the endgame. Basically leave them on the string until you've subdued all your major enemies, at which you can go ahead and storm away to win.

[Papewaio]

I thought that 100% loyalty meant the peasants wouldn't revolt.

200% loyalty that that nobility would not revolt.

I suppose the Pope needs to be on a rope or have a loyalty of 300% not to revolt. But from what was stated earlier I think if you keep Rome at a loyalty of 200% for ten years then the chances of Pope-factional revolt are minimised.

[Ii Naomasa]

What is often also silly is how often these guys respawn only to die a year later. They either pop up in easily defended territories or the AI clears them out shortly afterwards. Most of the respawns in my campaigns so far have been in AI territory and it's funny to see the 'Faction Reborn!' screen, followed by the 'Faction Eliminated' display a year later, only to have the process be repeated every five or ten years. You would think if a rogue prince wanted to have his kingdom reborn, he'd think of wiser places to do it. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

It did amaze me to see the Spanish constantly reappear in Almohad lands with nearly a full stack. Given that most of Spain was mostly of the Islamic faith at that point, he must've been digging deep to find all the Catholic warriors. Maybe they were all underground and not reporting into the census that gave the total loyalty and religious choice. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif What was odd was that once I knocked the Almohads out of Spain (as the Egyptians), I didn't have a single Spanish revolt. Either they were finally exhausted, or the people were just happier with me.

------------------
Naomasa Ii
Vices & Virtues:
Verbal Diarrhea: This general can't ever say or write anything in less than three paragraphs. Can't even yell 'Charge!' without a soliloquy. -3 to command.

[Lord Aeon]

So you're saying that "expert difficulty" is really hard?

LOL, i ususally don't care for "ruining the game" threads, but this one seems to have been written in a fairly respectful manner, and approached objectively.

I've found that keeping those spies active in decent numbers is the key to controlling your empire... that and religious influence (be it piousness or affiliation).

However, there are some provinces that require a great deal of consideration, and large armies to boot. Portugal is one of them, Scotland is another, and so on and so forth (although the key to keeping the Scots from revolting for me has been to simply buy the Scottish army outright... don't know why this works, but i have no problems with them... i buy the army and stick the provincial title onto the general - great long term investment, especially with the quality of troops you can produce here early in the game).

With respect to respawning factions, that's another issue altogether. I suspect that there's not much you can do to keep these from happening on expert difficulty, save the active spies thing i mentioned above. Those spies are great, and one or two in a potentially troublesome province (usually one of the last you conquered that belonged to the offending faction) along with a general with decent command and high dread seems to do the trick.

Or maybe i'm just getting lucky. ;-)

------------------
"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[Saben]

Respawning factions (with the exception of the papal state) seems to a large extent due to foreign activity in your regions. I always keep a watch tower in every provins to make shure no new spies get in (if you ever tried to send in spies into others regions you know how impossible it is when they got some towers in place) and a spy to root out anyone who might have been there since before. That seems to lessen the chans that a revolt occur alot.

It don't eradicate the possibility though, so take the other advises regarding leaving enemies a token territory to (preferably the home provins, since if someone else kills the faction, that is where their main force will repear). Make shure your governor got the right faith and/or high dread level to.

I noticed that this actully set the pace of the game a bit slower. Even though you might be on a winning streak taking pprovins after provins, you need to consolidate your power and build up a structure to avoid revolts and rebuild conquered areas. Spies (alot of them), watchtowers, keeps and guards (whatever is cheap and get you atleast 100 men). When everything is ready, break that peace treaty and press on, but don't be surprised when you conquer half the world in 15 years and everyone revolts (and that is the true test of the Byzantines i noticed, since it is so easy and necesary to be agressive to the east in the beginning).

I am fairly shure it isn't random occurences, just alot of factors that have yet to be discovered yet.

Saben

[BlueStone]

My ways of dealing with it,

1. Upgrade all your fort to keeper or above. This will buy you at least two years time for your striking force to arrive.

2. Build spy/bishop/church/Mosque in every province. Keep tax rate above 100%. I've never had any rebellion problems by doing this in Expert difficulty.

3. Build a strong army in a center province so you can reach any other province in a turn or two.

4. Most reborn armies consist of elite knights and foot soldiers. They have three weaknesses. First their valor is only 1 or 2. Second their number is low due to the 20-40 figures for elite troops. And third they usually don't have archers. Using an army of your best spearman/infantry/archers, led by a decent general, can easily defeat those reborns, especially if there are forest nearby.

[andrewt]

I've had the Papal state respawn twice. They have stacks of royal knights, chivalric and feudal knights and foot knights, pavise arbalesters and crossbowmen and halberdiers. How can a faction that got eliminated suddenly return more high tech than every other faction in the world?

It's like the Taliban returning to Afghanistan using stealth tanks and supersonic stealth bombers and laser weapons. You've got to be kidding me.

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by andrewt:

It's like the Taliban returning to Afghanistan using stealth tanks and supersonic stealth bombers and laser weapons. You've got to be kidding me.[/QUOTE]

I bet the Russians were saying something like that a couple of decades ago about the Afghan warlords... where the hell are they getting these weapons from?

Crusades always generate at the start the best troops. I'm sure having other Catholic factions still around would mean that some sort of Crusade would be mounted to save Rome. So look around for other Catholic factions... not sure if it is coded into the game but the strength of the revolts in Rome may be based on the remaining total strength of the Catholics. Also how many spies do you have in Rome and what is the loyalty rating.

[andrewt]

I have a few and the loyalty rating is high. I'm the most high-tech nation in the map. Germany is getting their ass kicked and most of their lands have been reduced to fort level. Poland, Sicily and Hungary aren't very powerful and don't even have feudal knights IIRC. Spain, France, Italy, Denmark and Aragon are all gone now.

Only the Byzantines have a fortress beside me and they only have one.

[Papewaio]

High as in 200+ or high as in over 100? Makes a difference apparently.

What is the highest loyalty can go to in MTW... in STW I have seen 500+ (15 shinobi and a few other things).

[andrewt]

200 is the highest. I think it is over 150, might even be 200. I heard the papacy respawns very often. It's probably random.

[Gregoshi]

Has anyone noticed how the Dread rating of the ruling general affects the rebellions? How ruthless/benevolent are you playing the game? I'm being rather nice to the conquered so far, but is that the right way to handle each faction as it is defeated?

------------------
Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[Lord Aeon]

Well, probably either approach would work consistently, but only in their respective extremes. You don't wan't a nice guy who loses it every once in awhile running your province... neither do you want that dread lord who's just a bit wishywashy.

------------------
"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

[Xiahou]

Hey andrewt... think you got it bad? Ive had 5 Papal rebellions in a row!

Finally, out of desperation I sat an 8 dread general in Rome with about 1000 troops... jump ahead 15yrs... Havent had a Papal rebellion since http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Hopefully, if they occur again, they will be much more infrequent now.

Papal rebellions are the only ones that I dont think have any rhyme or reason, I had the population of Rome 86% Orthodox and the frickin Pope still comes back there- but now that I got a pretty good handle on it Im ok.

Personally, I think factional respawns usually are preventable for the most part (Ive only ever had 1) and I think they make the game more challenging.

[OhLordy!]

Hi MTW community,

The re-emerging factions thing can indeed be a pain. However, after subjecting EatLead to a particularly gruelling session on the rack, I managed to extract the info I was after:

Keep your loyalty at 120% or above in provinces that previously belonged to the faction you've eradicted and they will not re-emerge. (at least not in any provinces you own!)

I did deliberate on whether or not to post this info & in the end decided that it probably wouldn't spoil anyone's game... put 'em down and keep 'em down!

[Dionysus9]

Thanks Lordy, it helps. My attitude is that every nuance of the game should be made available to those who are diligent enough to search for and compile them. Even given this new info, it doesn't "ruin" the game-- it makes it better in my opinion.

If you are afraid of a re-spawn, then you will have to take precautions. In real life, a King would have some idea of what precautions to take (i.e. he would know if a faction was beginning to re-form and would be able to take countermeasures). Without your info, we have absolutely no idea how to stop a re-spawn.

We still have to make decisions. Take the risk of 110% loyalty in exchange for higher taxes? Or foregoe the funds for security? In some circumstances (i.e. garrison needed elsewhere) it is still a tough decision, and knowing the variables helps us make it.

Thanks again.

[DoJo MoJo I]

Quote Originally posted by OhLordy!:
Hi MTW community,

The re-emerging factions thing can indeed be a pain. However, after subjecting EatLead to a particularly gruelling session on the rack, I managed to extract the info I was after:

Keep your loyalty at 120% or above in provinces that previously belonged to the faction you've eradicted and they will not re-emerge. (at least not in any provinces you own!)

I did deliberate on whether or not to post this info & in the end decided that it probably wouldn't spoil anyone's game... put 'em down and keep 'em down!

[/QUOTE]

Dumb Me doesn`t know who EatLead is but please tell him for me that The Pope and his killer stacks re-emerged 2 times in the Papal States after I had wiped that faction out, has a high dread general with a decent army and normal taxes as well as over 120% loyality there.....this playing on Normal.

Thanks !

[andrewt]

You think that's bad? Mine was at 200. I now have a stack there that is primarily billmen/longbowmen/feudal or chivalric knights and chivalric men-at-arms. The Papacy gets slaughtered even with all the royal and chivalric knights and whatnot they have.

[DoJo MoJo I]

Quote Originally posted by andrewt:
You think that's bad? Mine was at 200. I now have a stack there that is primarily billmen/longbowmen/feudal or chivalric knights and chivalric men-at-arms. The Papacy gets slaughtered even with all the royal and chivalric knights and whatnot they have.[/QUOTE]


Thats the way to go I guess, kinda a waste of recources but it seems the game sometimes get into a "rebellion " loop in certain provinces.

Still a Great Game warts and all.

[andrewt]

I got another because of the famine thing. The game seemed to specifically do that to make a rebellion. Damn random stuff seems to be not random at all.

[Gregoshi]

It is a plot. They are all out to get us. Even Mother Nature. And those dang yokels just won't give up and accept our rulership. Building and running an Empire really sucks. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Just remember the PFJ meeting in the movie Monty Python's Life of Brian - "What have the Romans ever done for us?" That sums up reason for these rebellions in my mind (well, what there is of it).

------------------
Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon

[predatorprey]

One time on normal i conqured all of the turks. At this time i controled all of egypt, turkey, and parts of russia and hungery.

Then out of no where 6 stacks of turkish armies poped up in the middle east area. I was shocked!! I was lucky i wasn't at war and was rebuilding my armies for another push west... It took me aprox 10-12 turns to defeat them and cost me aprox 10k troops. I wasn't too happy...

[solypsist]

yeah the respawning is starting to bug me.
once again, to the designers/patch people:
lower the chance of this happening, and then only once per faction when it does.

[Kalisari]

Or give us the ability to perhaps disable it.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I don't mind a rebellion once or twice
But when it keeps happening, again and again... it gets really irritating and annoying

The Papacy... there's really only 3 ways of dealing with them.

1. Leave them alone
2. Let them keep the Papal states - it gives no income basically. Sure you might have to garrison a few more troops around, but that's not too bad.
3. Keep huge armies at the Papal states and Rome.

[OhLordy!]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the Pope is an exception, I don't think you can ever keep him down permenantly, he'll always make a come back.

bloody popes eh?

------------------

OhLordy!@CA

[DarknScaly]

Use more spies - even if the AI isnt using any special units.

Spies are the key to reducing rebellions all over.

With faction reemergents simply kill their leader in the first battle (keep a reactionary army handy just for this) and the rest will dissapear or can be moped up as rebels (or bribe them into your own army)

In 300 years ive never had a province rebel once conquered and have only had 4 factions re-emerge, all dealt with in the first year they re-emerged.

Its all about forward planning.

[Hoo_Man]

when i took the papal states, and rome (yes im a bastard http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif) The papacy would come back in rome and papal states almost every 5-7 years and the army would be bigger everytime.. untill finally it was so big i couldn't fight it, it was about 18,000 units total in the 2 states

But in the intital 4-5 come backs, they'd invade 2 territory's and i'd just send my army to the one with the pope and sell him for 30,000 florins http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif

[Azmogeddon]

Well that was.. interesting. Playing as the English on normal difficulty, my first campaign. I bought Wales and conquered Scotland, built up a nice little army pretty quickly (having 4 heirs with their royal knights helps!), and went on a rampage through France, with the help of HRA I conquered it in less than 30 turns.

I had two peasant units in each garrison, plus three armies of mostly spearmen, basic militia and archers, my king's army has a couple of longbowmen and clansmen too. All have about 8-10 units, so I'm pretty happy, looking forward to pushing the Elmo's out of Iberia and maybe head into Africa... that turn I get a message saying my military is the strongest in the world. Sorted, right?

Well no... in two of the ex-France HRA provinces, the French are reborn. Between them with 8(eight) royal knights, six feudal knights (which no faction is even close to building), and heaps of feudal foot knights(once again no faction is close to building). I think they had some catapults as well.

I kept playing, and over the next few decades the French re-conquered everything up to Normandy and Flanders, and wiped out Aragon and half of HRE!


Urrr...!

------------------
Azmo
[long-time lurker]

[andrewt]

I have a big stack in Rome just for the Papacy. Nobody else revolts because of the normal taxes and spies I have. I also build lots of buildings so my king is always a steward and builder or something and increases loyalty across the board.

It's just annoying how high-tech rebellions are compared to other factions.

[Stu35]

the pope having many units is perfectly realistic - hes mates with god, he can have anything he wants.

Or more realistically, he pretends to be mates with god, and a lot of people believe him and are willing to die for him.

[DarknScaly]

i leave the pope till last - that's the one faction that "ALWAYS" respawns regularly so... pin em in and leave em there till the end.

With the others just remember you only really need to kill the leader.

Do that on the first turn and you can mop up at will.

Keep a "reactionary army" in each "area" ready to defend any province which may spawn a reemergent faction (with good navy you can cover pretty much the whole map with 3 of these).

If reemergents are in multiple provinces just retire garrison (pref 120 men) into the castles and whack the leader in the province he is attacking - again, once hes dead faction is finished again. You can then mop up the "rebels" (whats left of his forces) at will, bribe em - whatever.

You always get the one move to place your armies - so re-emergents are only a major problem if you dont plan for them and let them get a foothold.

Its rare i ever let a re-emergent faction live beyond the turn they appear in, very rare.

(note: Remember that you will be defending - so make reactionary armies defensive in nature, I use a total of 16 units for each one, mainly foot, couple of catapults, some light horse to chase down fleeing troops - easy peasy)

[andrewt]

The papacy spawns with lots of cavalry and they attack with them first. I just have my billmen and longbowmen in the highest hill in the farthest end of the map. It's only after the initial knights rout that they send other troops. I use chivalric knights to mop up the ranged attackers afterward. I use infantry against the halberdiers, though.

If there is nobody else with the prerequisites to build something, I consider that thing uninvented or undiscovered. Sure, lots of people will fight for the pope, but how does he continuously invent something that hasn't existed yet.

The above 120 loyalty seems to work, though. If you have a general that has mediocre loyalty or something and then a disease or typhoon strikes, watch out.

[Stu35]

I TOLD YOU!

HE'S MATES WITH GOD!

http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35.txt

[This message has been edited by Stu35 (edited 09-01-2002).]

[GilJaysmith]

EatLead is one of EatColdSteel's names from another game - and therefore One Of Us...

OhLordy is also One Of Us http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Developer participation has never been so high...

Gil ~ CA


[This message has been edited by GilJaysmith (edited 09-01-2002).]

[Cheetah]

Pape, Shiro plz transfer this into PAF. thx

of course, unless someone wants to continue the discussion ...

[Kraellin]

welcome back, gil. nice new icon, i see. slick.

ok, here's the dope on re-spawning factions, the best i can tell. there are essentially 3 ways to deal with this, prevent it from occurring by not wiping out the faction completely, have forces large enough to deal with it when it does happen, or my favorite, dont let them re-spawn at all.

someone else mentioned something about keeping a province at 120% or better loyalty and that then the old faction wouldnt show up again. getting tired of having to handle the novgorods every few years, i decided to put this theory to the test. i've been playing the poles and wiped the nov's out long ago, but kept having them come back. finally i decided to try this 120% loyalty thing and pumped my province loyalty up over 120% in every province the nov's were likely to re-spawn in. sure enough, no re-spawns. i was then attacked by 3 factions in the game in the south and started pulling troops from the north to help out. this dropped my loyalty in the old nov provinces back down below 120% and sure enough, a couple turns later, there were the nov's again.

not being satisfied with that, i saved the game and went back a couple turns in my saves and restarted it again before the last nov upstart, only this time i didnt pull my forces away, kept the provinces above 120%, and sure enough, no re-spawns.

now, all of this could be just a super coincidence, but it sure looks like to me that the 120% rule applies. try it and see if you get similar results.

K.

edit: for spealing, spellng, spewling...cause i wanted to.

------------------
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[This message has been edited by Kraellin (edited 09-03-2002).]

[Papewaio]

Interesting. From the initial posts in this forum they indicated you need to max out loyalty to 200%.

120% should be much easier.

[andrewt]

120% came from somebody from CA. Only the papacy bends this rule.

[Cheetah]

into PAF with it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Asmodeos]

Read your manual. Hold shift on the strategy map to view loyalty of provinces. This tells you if they are about to rebel, with or without the backing of an old ruler.

If you pirated and don't have a manual, screw off.

------------------
Bryan McNamara
"Asmodeos"

[andrewt]

The only thing holding shift tells you is if your loyalty is over 100% which is only good for peasant revolts. Religious revolts and respawning factions are a different thing entirely. They don't even tell you the chance for a spy revolt, if I'm not mistaken.

[Azmogeddon]

Hmm I just had a massive rebellion around Scandinavia. I had wiped out the Danes a while back, and they were reborn in Sweden, but there were 8 more rebellions that turn in nearby provinces - I'm pretty sure they all had more than 120% loyalty, some of them certainly had 180%+. Only one of the rebellions actually sided with the Danes, and the rest stayed as the Rebel faction (including a rebellion in Sweden itself that was then wiped out by the Danes).

Any ideas?

------------------
Azmo
[long-time lurker]

[andrewt]

120% is for respawning factions. Plain rebellions could be because of previous high taxes, spies, low garrison or incompatible religion.

[Azmogeddon]

Well the areas where the Danes re-appeared definitely had over 120% loyalty...

------------------
Azmo
[long-time lurker]

[DarknScaly]

aye - ive had the almohads re-emerge in Portugal with loyalty at 200%... but it was portugal and that province is whacky anyway so....

generally though the "rule" keeps em down to an absolute minimum.

[hawk]

Quote Originally posted by andrewt:
I've had the Papal state respawn twice. They have stacks of royal knights, chivalric and feudal knights and foot knights, pavise arbalesters and crossbowmen and halberdiers. How can a faction that got eliminated suddenly return more high tech than every other faction in the world?

It's like the Taliban returning to Afghanistan using stealth tanks and supersonic stealth bombers and laser weapons. You've got to be kidding me.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree that was the craziest and most annoying thing i had ever seen...i just could not understand how that seemed logical...anyhoo, what can you do.

[Shiro]

Portugal was fine for me. As the Spanish I took it the first turn and it stayed with me for the rest of the game. Switzerland however always came back. Every 5 years or so perhaps. The English pulled the same trick a few times as well.

------------------
"Everything Shiro said sounds good to me."
-Solypsist

[Shrinkwrap]

As the Almohads, I've wiped out the Spansih except for Portugal. I'm intentionally leaving them in control there because it's such a pain to occupy, and I don't want them to respawn anywhere else.

[hawk]

Quote Originally posted by Kalisari:
Or give us the ability to perhaps disable it.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I don't mind a rebellion once or twice
But when it keeps happening, again and again... it gets really irritating and annoying

The Papacy... there's really only 3 ways of dealing with them.

1. Leave them alone
2. Let them keep the Papal states - it gives no income basically. Sure you might have to garrison a few more troops around, but that's not too bad.
3. Keep huge armies at the Papal states and Rome.[/QUOTE]

i find that i don't have a problem with all the papal states with the exception of just rome...what i now plan to do is to leave rome till near the end...that way i don't have to worry too much about it reoccuring to often. i also find that other countries that are prone to a rebellion i keep the taxes on very low for the entire game...ie, scotland, portugal..etc..and also build a castle and keep a couple of spies and i have not since had any rebeillions, however, except for rome...blasted pope.

[Cheetah]

Shiro, plz move this thread into PAF, unless someone takes up the discussion.

[Cheetah]

Listed in the TC