Playing as Byzantium

[Pragmatic]

Okay, I'm about ready to try my first game without cheat mode. I'm not sure if I'm ready for battles, however, so I'm going to be playing on easy.

What would anyone suggest for strategy? I found a page on FourBelowZero.com that gave some intro strategies. It suggests pulling out of Georgia and Lesser Armenia, leaving Naples to its fate, and concentrating on Greece, Bulgaria (questionable), Constantinople, Nicaea, and Trebizond. (The islands, while well developed, are isolated, and not much can be done to reinforce them.)

Anyway, I can see building up Constantinople (Kataphraktoi) and Trebizond (Trebizond Archers). What else? Obviously, with the economics of the game, it's a case of specializing. Also, since you want to top out revenue, the farm upgrades and merchant upgrades (when available) are also nice.

I assume I'll want to have ships churned out on a regular basis, as well, to connect with multiple-commodity provinces.

Any advice? Who to ally with, who to shun, who to backstab? I don't want to conquer the world. I just want to conquer my corner of it. The provinces in the Balkans which start out Orthodox. Along the coast down to Egypt. (Especially Jerusalem and Egypt, though mainly for historical reasons. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Any benefit to Jerusalem, aside from the impressive governorship?) I'd like to keep my three islands. I think I'll want to stay away from north of the Black Sea, especially if the Mongols come in. Let them wipe out Novgorod and the Poles, I say.

Anyway, if any of you can offer some general tips on how to play as Byzantium, I'd appreciate it. I'll even play that particular game without any cheats (aside from save/reload... gotta have a crutch http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ).

[Boromir0101]

For being Byzantines (my fav faction, to if only they had kerns) but anyway some tips
1.Kataphractoi are devastating early game, some of best cav avialible until Chivilarc knights, but they can beat most turkish melee cav. they are WAY to slow to use against horse archers though (build inns for alan mercs and/or get Khazar province for steppe cav.
2.Build trade routes, and ally with catholics so they dont crusade against you
3. Trezibond archers and byzantine infantry are good combos, trezibond's are good archers byzantine inf maybe games best
4. Constantinople good rich farm province, build it up (if you get 1092 patch it starts better)
5.The islands aren't that great, low farm income, no trade, maybe use them as naval bases thats about it
6.take out turks as quick as possible they end up being much stronger late on
7.Naples is hard to hold, try to get a foothold early as possible

thats all i can think of
darn now i want to play a Byzantine game good luck!

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"Long has my father the steward of gondor kept the forces of mordor at bay, by the blood of our people are your lands kept safe" Boromir

[DojoRat]

Pragmatic

On easy you shouldn't have to pull out of any provinces.(my rule is never pull out, but then I've had a vasectomy) First, choose the best leaders to be the governor of each province. These are units that have a leader with high acumen (4+ feathers) and dread in that order. The provinces with the highest income should get the better leaders. You may want to wait a turn or two and check your new units if you can't seem to find any good ones. This will boost your income without raising taxes.
In Naples, lower the taxes all the way and build a fort to produce peasants. You might get a revolt any way but its worth a shot.
Go after Serbia, its nuetral and has gold, which is very good.
Build up your forces and use your generals to take out the Turks and Eygypt in that order.
Concentrate on spearman and esp Byz inf as well as the Treb archers. Your heavy Cav will take time to develope. Buy mercenaries just before your campaigns begin to give yourself an edge. You'll need inns for this put one in both the Balkans and Anatolia.
Well that's a start. I gotta go.

[Pragmatic]

I have a feeling that me and Hungary won't be seeing eye-to-eye. They have Iron in at least two of their provinces, so I'll be wanting them for future upgrades. Long-term, however. (Maybe assassinate both their leaders, one after the other, until they go rebel. THEN snatch them up.)

I don't know if its possible to get Serbia without cheating. The Hungarians tend to take Moldavia (one of the provinces that I want). I'll have to see if they take Serbia, as well.

It looks like my main enemies are going to be the Hungarians, the Sicilians (hard to exterminate, those... but I think I know how to reach Malta, now), the Egyptians, and the Turks. What order should I take them on? Who should I ally with in the meantime?

Aside from maxing out the trade possibilites, what provinces are good for what? It's too expensive to build everything in every province....

Should I spread out things like Cathedral, Admiralty, and stuff like that?

[Yoko Kono]

as the byzantines i developed my islands to churn out ships, this way they can never be attacked (only bribed or revolts), use trebizond for archers, constantinople for kata and byz infantry, while i used greece for byz cav
this way i had a good steady suppy of my core army units, byz inf; byz cav; treb arch and kata as shock, and my trade empire expanded rapidly givng over 10K income from the capital alone
try to fight one enemy at a time to maximise trade revenue
in my game i had a strong defensive line to hold back the turks whom i allied with after they failed to defeat me in battle, and i kept the otrher muslims on board as i need their trade income
i would first fight off the hungarians or anyone else with little or no sea ports but first ally with another faction along their borders who may also take advantage of your was and this will lesson the chances of intervention

[RealWarSucks]

Well, I played one game as the byz so I'm not really qualified to say...but that never stopped me before. It was on expert level.

I took on the Turks really quickly. It was a long war that involved a lot of trading territories but I was able to wipe them out. Around this time I got jumped by the Hungarians and the Egyptians. I was easily able to take out the hungarians all together but then the HRE and Italians got involved. Basically I had never started a war with anyone but everyone who started one with me lost all or most of their provinces. Everything was going pretty well, I had from Syria to Genoa, Tyrolia, Bohemia, Bavaria, etc. The trouble I had was that I was heart-set on getting profit out of trade but the catholics kept attacking me. Anyway, strange things occured out west beyond my sight and the spanish took over the Iberian penninsula, southern france, all of africa, and up to my borders on the east. There were no more muslim nations. The Spanish were out of control strong at this point. I gave up. They were gradually wiping out my turkish holdings and i tried in vain to get one of the muslim factions to pop back up and slow down the spaniards. I guess I could have probably survived taking losses all the way to Constantinople and then trying to destabalize the spanish but it seemed like it would take forever.

Out of the experience I can give you this advice;

Bribe for Kazhar. It didn't work so well for me, but it seems like a good tactic. A better way I guess would be to get a force in Georgia and then bribe the Khazar, when they join you move in your reinforcements. Without reinforcements I was attacked by rebels from all sides who took back the province. Being able to produce the steppe cav is nice, especially against all those stupid horse archers.

Other than that I'd say my biggest mistake was conquering too fast. I ended up taking so many provinces so quickly that I had to move all of my armies out to the borders to keep down rebellions. It was costly supporting those forces and I seldom had the cash to really develop my core provinces.

My thinking was that the best chance for the byz would be to become a trading empire until i had the cash to rule russia. But the key to that is not being at war (at least not with everyone). I guess in hindsight I should've kissed more catholic booty...I doubt it would have mattered though since without the almohad the spanish became the global hegemon.


good luck

[Grifman]

Here is the Byzantine Blitz (TM) strategy:

1) Hungary is your friend. Your enemy is Turkey. Do not foolishly antagonize Hungary or attack them - a decent frontier force will discourage them from any adventures - 6 unit army in Serbia (slowly increasing to a fulls stack) and one unit in Bulgaria is all you need on that front. You have bigger fish to fry. Forget about the iron - it's not crucial and it won't do you any good to have their iron if the Turks have Constantinople.

2) First two turns - send troops and take Serbia - nice mines and farm income. Wait any later and Hungary takes it.

3) Send emissary to Khazaria ASAP and bribe it. Nice farm, trade income but most important, Steppe Cavalry which will make mince meat of Turkish archers.

4) Pump out troops in the Big C and Khazaria, mainly Byzant infantry and Steppe cavalry.

5) Hire as many mercs as you can afford in Trebizond. You should now have two large stacks of armies.

6) Move everything into Rum. The Turks will retreat and now they are doomed. You have their main, if not their only troop producing province.

7) Garrison the Big C, and build up more troops there, hire more mercs if you can. Let the Turks take whatever they want other than the Big C and Khazaria and Rum - if they hold a province temporarily it doesn't matter - you can now outproduce them since you hold Rum, even if they try and rebuild elsewhere.

8) Eventually, you can build up enough troops in Khazaria (Steppe Cavalry), Trebizond (mercs), Rum (horsearchers) and the Big C (Byzant infantry), along with your Rum armies to manuever and force the Turks back. Shouldn't be too long before you take the last Turkish province.

9) Now take some time to consolidate your victory, but don't stop producing troops or take it easy. The Egyptians will soon attack - they never attack the Elmoheads when they can attack Christians. Just build up and be prepared.

10) I use the island as naval bases. They all get 20% agriculture, then build only enough to be able to produce ships - to be used against Egypt (see below).

11) You shouldn't have trouble beating the Egyptians as you can easily outproduce them. A good idea when the war comes is an amphibious invasion of Egypt. A one stack army can usually take it, as they never garrison it with enough troops. This deprives them of a major province, and also heads off the Spanish or Elmoheads taking it as you roll back the Egyptians from the north.

12) With the Turks and Egyptians yours, your future is assured. Just build up for the Mongol invasion, and prepare to retake Italy or anywhere else your fancy takes you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif You can even attack the Hungarians now if you want. The world is now your oyster.

Grifman

[Taohn]

If you're playing Early, I've gotten myself a good start this way. Kick the turks out of Rum and Armenia on the first turn. If you use the right combo of troops they may reteat from Rum without a fight. Rum is their home province so you'll have, for all intents and purposes, eliminated them. Don't kill them off totally though or you'll regret it.(rebellions) I like to leave them Syria. Raiding them often so they pose no threat. Also, Lower Naples' taxes to very low and start a fort. Attack Sicily on turn one with all troops in Naples. Try to kill all their soldiers on the battle map or you'll have to siege a keep with Naptha throwers and Byz infantry. Either way you'll end up with a free keep!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Like all Miyagi, Shimpo Sensei was fisherman.... Love fishing. Love sake. One day, strongo wind, strongo sun, strongo sake, but no fish. Shimpo Sensei fall asleep off coast of Okinawa, wake up off coast of China.

[Grifman]

I have no problems with any Turkish rebellions and its 1274 AD and I have every Turkish province and have had them for over 150 year. I suspect you are not doing a good job of managing happiness in your provinces . . .

Grifman

[This message has been edited by Grifman (edited 10-01-2002).]

[Rosacrux]

Good strategy Grifman, and on Expert, from my experience with it, it's the only working.

but the lad is playing on easy, so give him a way to enjoy the game from early on, not crush'em all and then spend the rest of the game warring one faction after another, with no peaceful times at all, until he steamrolls over all provinces.

On easy, you can concentrate on production/trade but wiping out the Turks is crucial: If you let them grow, they'll become a major pain in the arse. So, take them out the way Grifman describes (those mercenaries are a must-have for early warfare, the AI has nothing to match them). Once again: Take out the Turks in the beginning. If you can come up with a couple of alliances before invading Rum, all the better: You'll have an easier time later on.

As for building up, Constantinople should produce Byz-inf and Cataphracts and a dromon or two early on, while an island province (I usually pick Crete... for sentimental reasons) can grow to become your main shipyard and produce loads of Dromones. So after some crucial upgrades, Constantinople should build all the money-bringing buildings and later on the nifty ones (Chancellery, Cathedral, Uni and so on). Greece and Nicae produce decent money, so build those up too... quickly. In the beginning you'll want to build archer facilities in Trebizond, to get those fancy (and effective) archers with good valor.

But you should make Rum your main troop producing province, along with Khazar (take both ASAP, they are crucial for your welfare of the Byzantines). Steppe cavalry is very useful and you'll have those buggers around up until you get Pronoiai Allagion (the latter a very decent medium cavalry btw).

You have to know that as the Byzantines you shall have no free time, meaning every now and then (even on easy) a catholic faction shall jump on your throat. You have to play the diplomacy game with skill and cunning, use them spies and assasins and try to keep good relations with all you can, because trading is vital for you - you need BIG armies to defend your lands, not mentioning going on the offense (something you'll have to do sooner rather than later - at least against the Muslim factions. The Turks shall attack you no matter what, and the Egyptians shall follow, so be prepared).

[Pragmatic]

Well, I tried it on Normal settings. Only minimal save/reloads. I was doing quite well, but decided to quit. I still need a few games on Easy. And I haven't a clue on how to use the tactical battles. (Thus, invading Sicily and Rum on the first turn are flat out.)

Also, I ran out of money early on, so I couldn't bribe the Khazari. (Just as well. There was a Spanish crusade headed for Khazar, and it had three stacks by the time it had reached eastern Hungary.)

I did figure out that there's several provinces that you want to keep, no matter what.

Constantinople: Kataphraktoi, already well developed, loyal as all get out.
Trebizond: Treb. Archers, starts with an inn, also loyal.
Nicaea: Pron. All. (no-one had mentioned that; I sat bolt upright when I read that in the province display...), also loyal.

So, next game on easy, and only Auto-calc battles that are overmatched. (I'm going to be creamed, but what the heck... Can someone point me to a thread where tactics are discussed? I know the basics: hold the center with your best infantry, archers behind to pepper oncoming troops, and cavalry is to be used on the flanks or for running down routed troops.)

[Rosacrux]

For one, Naples is doomed. don't try to even get it up and running, just concentrate on the vital provinces. But you shouldn't give away anything else, you want to cream the Turks not get creamed by them. Focus on Rum, then Khazar and if you can get away with it (have a couple of spare units) bribe away Serbia.

Another point: Don't build everything everywhere: Focus on some key provinces (those I have already mentioned) and forget about the others, until you have abound cash.

As for tactical battles, there are others more skilled than me to get advice from... check the index thread, there are quite a few topics about this.

[Grifman]

Quote Originally posted by Taohn:
If you're playing Early, I've gotten myself a good start this way. Kick the turks out of Rum and Armenia on the first turn. If you use the right combo of troops they may reteat from Rum without a fight. Rum is their home province so you'll have, for all intents and purposes, eliminated them. Don't kill them off totally though or you'll regret it.(rebellions) I like to leave them Syria. Raiding them often so they pose no threat. Also, Lower Naples' taxes to very low and start a fort. Attack Sicily on turn one with all troops in Naples. Try to kill all their soldiers on the battle map or you'll have to siege a keep with Naptha throwers and Byz infantry. Either way you'll end up with a free keep!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[/QUOTE]

You must be playing on Easy. Won't work on hard:

1) You can't easily take the keep on hard with what you have

2) Even if you take it, you almost always get a rebellion that outnumbers you

3) The keep will hold for 4-6 years, but you can't afford to build ships in Constantinople and send troops to Sicily and fend off the Turks at the same time.

Strategy just won't work on Hard.

Grifman

[Paladin]

Quote Originally posted by Boromir0101:
4. Constantinople good rich farm province, build it up (if you get 1092 patch it starts better)
[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. And it makes for more historically accurate and more fun since your back is up against the wall and if you don't make the right moves, you can easily be defeated by the Turks early on.

For anyone that wants to download a copy of it:

http://home.pacbell.net/jpaladin/1092Early.zip

[DojoRat]

The Byzantines in the early period on normal have a lot of tactical advantages. Their generals are great and the early appearance of Byzantine inf is another plus. Here are some basic tactical tips.
1. Know your enemy. Build a watchtower in both the east and the west. They're cheap and it will let you know what you're facing.
2. Gain local superiority. Build/Gather your forces from nearby provinces but just watch your loyalty/tax ratio.
3. Use the terrain. If he is on a hill try to either lure him off with some skirmishers or at the least turn sidewways on it by setting up on his side. Keep your Cav out of the trees when attacking.
4. Hold and flank. Group your spearmen and militia in a line. Send them forward to engage their line. Place your Byz inf on the flank and send them on a short hook to flank the end of their line. If you have some Kataphraks send them on a longer hook around the other side to plunge into the back of their general who has turned to meet the threat of you Byz INF. Save the light cav (if you can) for mopping up or scattering archers.
Different opponents will require different tactics but holding the center and turning the flanks is a good start.




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He moves, you move first.

[MajorFreak]

I played on hard. I figured i'd leave the european theatre till much later, and concentrated on killing of the Ottoman's and Egyptians. (italians caused me no end of grief with both ship bugs - no compass/mobile blockading)i attacked Rum first turn. lowered taxes to stave off revolts and just went full bore on ethnic cleansing. Not pretty, but it got me Rum. After that it was a steady march: Armenia, Edessa and then Tripoli and the one just to the north and south of tripoli were ripe for the taking after i wiped out the turks

Best tactical advice for dealing with the turks? cavalry get massive penalty in woods, plus arrows suck in woods. You'll be outnumbered, so good luck. It's so worth it when you destroy the cream of turkish military and it's downhill for them after.[/list]discovered the joys of heavy armour and desert heat. icky! (though i mourn the fact winter weather isn't available....actually i do hope they patch in random winter weather. rare, but it would be nice to have the odd snow blizzard fight.)

[This message has been edited by MajorFreak (edited 10-04-2002).]

[Cheetah]

Listed in the TC