View Full Version : lib Knight templars
The templars in the game are poorly fighters in most case. This should be fixed in a patch I think because in real life they were really good fighters.
other than their weak charge they are the same as all the other crusader units, except cheaper.
btw, how do you build them? once you build a crusade can you build them?
Lord Krazy
09-08-2002, 03:56
Quote Originally posted by Xer0:
The templars in the game are poorly fighters in most case. This should be fixed in a patch I think because in real life they were really good fighters.[/QUOTE]
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You can change that in crusader_prod11.txt
if u don't know how go to the mod section
u will find out quick enough lots of
things to read.
LK
Xero
My crusades mod fixes their 'charge' stat, bringing it in line with the other orders. It also does some other stuff, but has a full readme, if you're interested, Baroccas put it in the downloads section . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Oops, didnt fix the templars cost though! will have to make a V1.1 and send to Barocca, in case two people MP with the mod.
[This message has been edited by Wart (edited 09-07-2002).]
The Templars were great fighters but they're surely overhyped. The Hospitallers apart from living longer (they still exist today) were as fierce as them. In fact they cost more than the Templars.
Same story with the Teutonic but they died out during the middle ages but weren't that religious. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif They cost the same as the Hospitallers.
The Gothic Knights cost most though..
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Everyone knowed back in the dark ages, if they attacked a army of 5 Knight templars with 50 men they should be defeated. Even if they really should beaten those 5 Temple Knights the reputation of them was so strong so noone attacked them if they were under 10 against 1 Temple Knight.
And see Temple Knights flee in the game makes me sick. Temple Knights number one law was "If you flee from serving our holy father you have failed to this order". So i'll hope they fix this so the temple knights stand and fight to the very last man. A temple knight don't ever never run! To serve and die for their holy father was their goal.
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
Quote Originally posted by Terazawa Tokugawa:
The Templars were great fighters but they're surely overhyped. The Hospitallers apart from living longer (they still exist today) were as fierce as them. In fact they cost more than the Templars.
Same story with the Teutonic but they died out during the middle ages but weren't that religious. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif They cost the same as the Hospitallers.
The Gothic Knights cost most though..
[/QUOTE]
Can you build TeuTonic Knights,or any other of the order troops with out starting a Crusade? I've tried but can't. By the way all you guys making mods,thanks i am using some of them now and enjoying this game. Hope some one come out with a rebelion patch soon. Unrealistic they can come back with a full sized and fully equiped army in one year after you kicked the shit out of that province and moved on. Takes a player 8 years just to fill a full banner army of lowly peasants.
Quote Originally posted by Mu:
other than their weak charge they are the same as all the other crusader units, except cheaper.
btw, how do you build them? once you build a crusade can you build them?[/QUOTE]
Only the French and English can get templars and only when they start a crusade. And then I dont want to download mods that fixes things that the developers should have fixed. And also the knight templars didnt have any value as prisoners so the ai shouldnt be able to sell them.
Templars did retreat and weren't all that awesome.
The Templars would only retreat though if the odds were greater than 3-1. Also the Templars only seemed so good because they were much more disciplined than the other soldiers that fought in the "Holy Land". The Templars was also a fairly professional army.
Also the Knights Hospitaller survived longer primiarly because they moved their base of operations to their own island/country opposed to the Templars who's base was in France after the East was lost, here the Kings of France envied there riches and lands, and let's not forget that the Hostpitallers acquired all the Templar property after the Templars were burned as Heretics in every Eurpean country they were in.
It annoys me though that the Templars dont have a second unit, the Teutonic order has their sergeants, the hospitallers their foot knights. The Templars should at least have Sergeants Templar(mounted) seeing as these comprised the majority of the order.
[This message has been edited by spmetla (edited 09-08-2002).]
Feel the overhype! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Most of the stuff told about them in typically English books is poof. No, they wouldn't go 'dying'. They had great minds and knew tactics well...and if they're not going to win most times they cared for their skin.
It's a bit unusual that the most overhyped Knight in the world is the "worst" (so to say) Knight in the game though. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif The Hospitallers and Teutonic were as fierce and good as them but they cost more...
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Lord Krazy
09-08-2002, 16:00
Quote Originally posted by Wart:
Xero
My crusades mod fixes their 'charge' stat, bringing it in line with the other orders. It also does some other stuff, but has a full readme, if you're interested, Baroccas put it in the downloads section . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Oops, didnt fix the templars cost though! will have to make a V1.1 and send to Barocca, in case two people MP with the mod.
[This message has been edited by Wart (edited 09-07-2002).][/QUOTE]
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The reason they had a lesser charge
from the other holy orders is because
they don't carry a lance no lance
no charge bonous so if you
want to be consistant then you
should give them a lance in the graphic
so people like me who would assume
well after I was finished with them
if I see a unit with a lance I will use
them to charge if I don't I wont thats
why I gave gallowglass and gothic foot
knight an axe in the animation because
thats what the game thinks they are useing.
You see it's kind off like giving
the longbow man the stats of a musket
but not change the animation
so you can not tell from the animation
what the true nature of the unit is.
Do you understand my point of view
as someone who dose not read the text
in battel I just see if they have the kit for the job .
LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Lord Krazy
The game may have different graphics for the different order knights, some using swords and others lances. But historically any of the crusader knights would have, given the choice, charged with a lance & then drawn their sword either when the lance broke, or when they got into melee (couched lances are pretty much unsable in close quarters!)
In the same way that you draw expectations from the what the graphic looks like, i draw my expectations from what i know about history, thus i expect any knight of this period to have a strong charge, but also fight well in the following melee.
I just think of the graphic as something pretty to look at (a playing piece, if you will). The important thing for me is that if it looks like a knight, and is called a knight, i would assume that it will use the lance/sword combo from history. So i have changed the stats for my benefit, and have choosen to share it with anyone who like me is historically minded & wishes to use it.
I see you have a point about people making assumptions about a unit because of the graphic, but do YOU only ever use the other order knights for charges & then withdraw them? cos if you're assuming they only have a lance you probably should be (I reiterate: Lance=bad melee weapon), also using this logic their main attack skill should be lower than that of the Templars, its not it's the same.
I did, in fact, check before modding the Templars charge, in the crusader unit file ALL the order knights have sword as their weapon (col AW), but the options here seem to be limited to sword, spear, axe, or club- no lance! So i think the difference is mainly a graphical one, except that the stats file has been made so that some of the orders have been given, the higher charge value, but not the lower attack that you would expect a man with just a lance to have.
From one point of view all the knights sprites are slightly inaccurate, or rather accurate only part of the time. That is why i see this as being entirely different from the musket/longbow example you gave, which is obviously wholly inaccurate.
Ideally they should appear with a lance during a charge, but change to having a sword once in melee. None of them do this, & it really doesnt bother me as it's just a picture! It might have been nice but im sure the devs had better thngs to do with their time! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
As for me, i've never claimed to be anything other than someone whos worked out how to change some of the game txt files, im not a techy! Changes to the graphics are a) beyond me, & b) of little interest to me, as i'm quite happy with the idea that the units are just playing pieces which represent whatever the unit is called!
If, on the other hand, someone with a little more skill at modding feels strongly enough to change the templars sprite... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Wart (edited 09-08-2002).]
Remember there is the balancing point of view which is very important especially for MP. If the Templar is 100 florins less than a Teutonic then it must be inferior.
Most single players won't give a dang about it really, but in multiplayer it would mean that Templars would be banned from use...
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Been a bit busy with work, but as i said above, i will mod the price of the Templars up to bring them in line with the other crusader orders when i have some time, & then send barocca a new copy of my mod. That way all order knights will have equal stats & cost, it'll just be the picture that varies. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Yo really don't want to see the Templars inferior do you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
You can mod the graphic I think, too.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
*Grin*
No I don't, does it show? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
It's not that i'm saying that they should be superior either, but i do think that, as all the orders employed the same style of combat historically, they should all probably be reprsented with the same game stats! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
(Granted you could make arguements, that this or that order should maybe be a BIT tougher or weaker, but at the end of the day, they were all made up of thugs, with varying degrees of piety, who wanted an excuse to break heads!)
As for modding the graphic, would it be possible to get so that all knights had lances when standing or charging, but changed to sword once in melee? If not, is there any point in changing any of the graphics, as they'll all be wrong some of the time?
If it is possible it sounds like a job for someone with more know-how than I! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
It shows yeah http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Historically we can't really know who was better because they never fought each other so I would agree with you that they should have the same stats.
BUT: The templars got only charge bonus that is inferior...and cost 75 florins less, a considerable amount of money. The charge bonus isn't that important in a head-to-head fight (except flanking/rearing) and it only affects the initial impact, altough by itself that is one of the most important elements of a mounted unit.
2 charge bonus less for 75 florins...the balance could go in favour of the Templar especially in MP battles...
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
RageMonsta
09-09-2002, 01:04
Templars..often better as bankers..and the power to control Kings...plus they were not ignorant of the advanced ways from the East.
The average Templar type trooper was just a nut case with no fear of death....bit like Osama's bunch and the fellas in Palistine who do the suicide bombing.....they dont need to be better fighters...they are just without fear....thus damn scary to the average person...maybe honour upgrade closer to the Fanatics level but combat...not too much...Monsta may not be too eager to die but in the car park I think I could have a good go at Osama Bin WhatsHisName....until he explodes both of us all over a Ford Fiesta.
Quote Historically we can't really know who was better because they never fought each other so I would agree with you that they should have the same stats[/QUOTE]
There are a few accounts of the Templars and Hostpitallers openly fighting each other. They were a fairly even match.
The Templars should have an extra unit though, they like i said also had Templar Sergeants.
RageMonsta
09-09-2002, 05:29
Interesting you should mention this...
a few months ago police had to stop a fight/riot between nearly 100 monks from different Orders in Israel...many went to hospital because of the weapons used like iron bars etc....they fought because a member of one side had moved his chair into the area belonging to the other Order.
no BS....nuts mind.
DarthPharazon
09-09-2002, 10:47
Same story with the Teutonic but they died out during the middle ages but weren't that religious
Actually, the Teutonic Order did not "die out" during the Middle Ages. They became Protestant sometime in the 1500's. And then they managed to have (part of) their territory made into the Duchy of Prussia, a vassal of the King of Poland. The Grand Master became a hereditary Duke, and his family ended up as Emperors of the 2nd German Empire. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
The TO _did_ suffer a rather decisive defeat sometime in the 1400s (Tannenburg). But they were not wiped out.
Hehe yep, but their status as Catholic crusaders vanished... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Wasn't Templar Knights based in Cyprus not in France?
As far as i know Grand Master Jacques De Molay came to France upon the summons of Philippe The Fair (French King was Philippe for sure but not sure if the Fair or not) where he and all templars were arrested in 1307 (i think it's at 1307) and they were executed at 1314 (not sure about the year again but it should be close).
Furthermore, i read in many history books that they were the best christian warriors. They were almost never ransomed but killed on site when captured.
Shiro, plz move this thread into PAF, unless someone takes up the discussion.
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