View Full Version : Creative Assembly Problem with crusade moving back and forth?
eat cold steel
09-06-2002, 21:12
Ok I want to know what factions you were playing, where the crusade is going, on which regions it is doing this sucky thing, and if it happens everytime you load up an old save game.
The crusade SHOULD be following the same rule as a player crusade, have any of you been allowed to move a crusade backwards?
The only reason a crusade could move back is if a sea route have been opened in the previous turn and it is shorter than then land route, and after one turn the sea route is closed again and the crusade tries to carry on with the original land route. I can't see that happening for 20 years in a row...
the Count of Flanders
09-06-2002, 21:27
I've seen the Italians (AI-controlled) launch a crusade to Egypt and it got stuck in Spain moving between the province in the center (with the +1 valour inq) and the north-western most province of the peninsula.
btw the Italian definitely didn't have a fleet on the west side of Spain.
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[This message has been edited by the Count of Flanders (edited 09-06-2002).]
wasaaabi
09-06-2002, 21:29
Here's the basics - I'll have to get home for more details...
Playing Italians, Glorious Achievement
The German crusade never took a sea route, it just bounced between the German province to the immediate north of Venice, Venice itself, and the province just east of Venice - Croatia, I think. So it would move German province, to Venice, to Croatia, back to Venice, to German Provcince, back to Venice, back to Croatia, etc. I was getting invaded every other year.
The damn thing developed two of the red streamer things - (i.e., two and 1/2 panels of troops) before it left.
I tried moving all my bishops to the german province to increase their zeal, thinking the Crusade might go there looking for better pickings. No luck - just this same 3-province move cycle for 20 years.
More details when I get home. BTW, it's really refreshing to see developers participating in this forum. I've been a player since a long time ago, and you guys are the best!
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"This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."
Soapyfrog
09-06-2002, 21:30
A simple fix for this would be to not permit a crusade to switch between a sea and land route dynamically during it's movement... i.e. it can use a sea route initially, but if that sea route becomes unavailable, it switches to a land route with no possibility of returning to a sea route...
It seems to me it IS possible given the constant fluctuations in the availability of sea routes that Crusades get stuck indefinitely (20 years is unlikely, but still possible...)
Dionysus9
09-06-2002, 21:34
Here is another Crusade problem they are having ECS:
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001366.html
eat cold steel
09-06-2002, 21:38
Do you have a savegame of this, wasaaabi? Post your e-mail, I can get in touch and grab the save file from you.
wasaaabi
09-06-2002, 21:46
Think so, but I'll have to check when I get home this afternoon. I'll let you know...
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"This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."
I wish I had a savegame but I haven't played singleplayer in about a week and I don't know what savegames are what.
Anyway, I was Spanish and the Italians (and possibly also later the Germans) launched a Crusade against some Muslim province and it went back and forth in my captured French territories until it fizzled from lack of motivation.
Kraellin
09-07-2002, 01:01
ECS,
isnt it possible, given that we've got some ship problems in them going back and forth tween 2 sea routes to avoid being destroyed, that this could be causing this bouncing crusade? the sea route is open one turn, but closed the next, back and forth? i've not seen this problem myself, yet, but the logic of it makes some sense.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
So did you get saves with the crusade problems? I have two saves with a crusade stuck moving between two provinces for about 10 years. The crusade originated in Spain and was going to Constantinople. However it moved back and forth between two of my French provinces for probably 10 turns.
Yeah, Coldsteel, I've seen this. There's an AI Italian Crusade sitting in Aragon. It's tried to invade Elmohead territory several times but keeps running away. It then tries to enter my territory (English) in Aquitaine to the north - and its stated goal is Egypt - so it's moving in the totally opposite direction. I even did a reload from several turns before and it repeated it's dumb move.
Grifman
Red Peasant
09-07-2002, 23:24
A lot of Crusades were dumb though!
Most never reached the Middle East and were just fronts for killing and plundering.....usually some poor Christian suckers! The 'bug' sounds realistic! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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To see a world in a grain of sand,
And Heaven in a wild flower,
To hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.
William Blake.
LittleRaven
09-07-2002, 23:34
Actually, there's some deeper crusade weirdness going on...I still can't figure out what I witnessed last night...
Ok, the French call a crusade on Smolenks....I'm playing as the Danes. I've taken a good bit of the French coastlines and have totally smashed the French navy in previous wars. They don't have a ship left. Their crusade tries to enter Provence, which I controlled at the time. I told them to get lost, and smunched that crusade good. It wandered off into whatever is between Brittany and Flanders and just stayed there. At the same time, the Spanish navy begins moving to the north, completely breaking the chain to Spain. I didn't think much of at the time.
Now the strange thing. The Spanish navy completes a chain from the Crusade to Norway. (barbarian) The Crusade, which seems to have been replacing its losses about as fast as it lost them, suddenly jumps to Norway. This is a French crusade, mind you. Upon reaching Norway, it just sits there. (I guess because I control Novgarad and it doesn't think it can beat me.)
I didn't know that a Crusade from one country could use the navy of another. I certainly never seem to able to...
Had the crusade going back/forth thing happen to me. I'm playing Poland, started in the early period. Italy sent a crusade towards Tripoli, but the crusade somehow ended up in Poland, and is now going back and forth between Poland and Hungary. It really ruined that game because Poland is the center of my empire, and I really hate the idea of vacating that province (and not using it) because the crusade strips off a chunk of my military every time it oscillates into it.
BTW, the "Do you wish to allow the crusade to pass" message is being bypassed if you hit "space" and bypass the computer move. I'm able to reproduce this 99% of the time (if I let the computer turn complete as normal, the message appears as normal).
I have a save with this in progress that I can send you if you like. I write games for a living as well (console games right now), so I know how useful a "bad" save can be. Send me an email at hoofj@agora.rdrop.com, and I'll email you back the save.
Had another thought about the crusades going back and forth. If the game kept a simple history of provinces passed through during the last n turns, it could exclude them from the choices for next turn. I don't know if this would cause the crusades to go in a big circle (or get stuck, surrounded by "no pass" territories), but it would prevent the back/forth thing from happening.
oZoNeLaYeR
09-08-2002, 01:22
yeah me too, i got 2 crusades in my provinces move back and forth, French and HRE crusades that is, and they kept visiting my provinces which is friesland.
if i'm not mistaken, they took my troop and i was defenseless, this happened for like 10 years or so.. anywayz? if we're allied with a catholic faction, if they launch a crusade, do they need to ask my permission to pass thru my province?
ozonelayer, if you use the spacebar to bypass the computer's turn, you will not be asked whether to let the crusade in. The game will assume you said "OK". However, if you let the computer play it's turn, it will ask. I suggest that until this is changed, anytime you spot a crusade on your borders, you don't bypass the computer's turn http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Highlander
09-08-2002, 09:15
Here's my scenario:
Playing as the English in 1175. Both the Germans and the Spanish have declared crusades to capture Antioch. I also have one enroute there. The Spanish crusade bounces back and forth between Castille and Navarre (and I don't even have an army in Navarre) while the German crusade bounces between Flanders and Friesland. I moved my Flanders army to Wessex so then the German crusade moved and started bouncing between Saxony and Denmark. At that point, I reloaded, refused entry for the crusades, went to war, got excommunicated and no more crusades http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
oZoNeLaYeR
09-08-2002, 11:31
I shall Avenge!!! I'm going to launch a massive crusade! muhahahahaha
Warmaker
09-10-2002, 07:05
Late in the game while playing as the Byzantines the Italians cancelled our alliance and commenced a feeble Crusade aimed at Constantinople. I didn't have a problem with this, mind you, for my armies in Croatia, Greece, and Serbia, though not large, were a great blend of byzantine inf. and other top of the line units.
What bothered me that the Italian crusade was in Venice (Sicilian conrolled and an ally). Sicilian ships were the only ships in the nearby seas but the crusaders appear to have used those ships to completely bypass Croatia and Serbia to get directly into Greece.
That's a bunch of b.s. since I couldn't do the same while playing as the Spanish with allied French ships who had naval supremacy.
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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!
No, it's no BS. Think about it - if you are allied with the Spanish you can't move through their territory. But if you make a crusade you can move through their territory. So the crusade can move using another's ships, just like they can move through land territory. I wish allies could move through another's territory and/or ships, but the game isn't set up that way - probably to prevent the human from abusing it - setting up his armies in his allies territory and then stabbing him in the back.
Grifman
Do something about retreats too. The Germans sent a crusade that I refused as the English because I had a much higher tech than everybody and I refused to share my high tech troops with anybody. They tried to pass a certain province again and again but retreated because of my vast army size until the crusade fizzled out. I was busy against the Byzantines and Egypt so I just garrisoned my borders until I finished with those 2.
The computer retreats way too often. Usually you fight really large low-tech stacks of the powerful computer player in the late game as the others kept retreating and getting starved to death in castle sieges. Especially crusades, they shouldn't retreat as often since they are going to fizzle out anyway and it is better if they reduced the enemy garrison using it instead of letting it go to waste.
DragonIce84
09-10-2002, 15:50
I've never seen this happening, but, playing as the italians, I'm sure once or twice I've had the ability to move back with my crusade. Weird.
Swoosh So
09-10-2002, 15:56
Um i think he needs the savegames so he can see for himself....
eat cold steel
09-10-2002, 16:08
Got a savegame from hoof. Thank you, I am looking at a fix right now.
The problem is any move that take you closer is ok, but by closer it's either closer by going over land or closer including sea routes... So crusade in region A, region B is closer by land, region C is closer by sea, I pick B. Next turn, region A is closer by sea (1 step + distance from C to destination,) region D is closer by land (land distance from B - 1 step progress.) If I can pick up more troops by going back then of course I am gonna choose region A.
You can all thank hoof for this fix.
Ahhh... but that doesn't always seem to be the case for us.
I had a Crusade that was destined for Palestine, but I could not choose any but one province every time. I actually ended up in Syria, which is to the east of Palestine.
I found that very odd as a better route would have been through Antioch and Tripoli (when my Crusade was in Lesser Armenia I think).
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You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Playing Germans I just had an Italian crusade, which started in Genoa. It went up and down the map to Saxony (!!!) on its way to Palestine. It kept on sucking 30% of my troops and generals on every turn and disintegrated in the middle of Germany after 30 turns. Total devastation to me, 6 hours of my hard work in the game wasted. At the end just kept pressing next to see what’s the next stupid thing the Crusade will do.
In addition to fixing the Crusade pathfinding. I suggest each fraction to be able to produce only 2-3 Crusades or increase the time for the next crusade e.g. 30-50 years. It will be more historically accurate.
[This message has been edited by todorp (edited 09-22-2002).]
playing Italians
Spanish crusade launched towards Rum
I let it through when it arrives.
While it is in Venice the Spaniards conquer Rum with regular armies
Instead of ending, it moved to Austria (which was also mine)
Every year it moved between Austria and Venice. I could not stop it because it drained all my units to one troop each. This went on for about 20 years then it left to Croatia.
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ECS, I've got a Crusade bug for you...
I'm playing the Spaniards, Early era Glorious Achievement campaign. The Italians started a Crusade bound for Cyrenaica, the last Almohad province left on the map. In order for it to get there it had to march through Spain and my provinces in North Africa. I was ready to finish off the Almohads myself with my army in Tunisia but I thought it would be neat to go into battle with the Crusade (I've never seen a battle in the SP campaign involving three or more factions) so I waited. The Italian Crusade finally reached Tunisia but promptly pitched a tent and and stayed there turn after turn until it finally disappeared! Curiously enough (thanks in part to the region's low Zeal rating) it didn't recruit any more followers, even from my own troops stationed there. In fact I think the Crusade remained in Tunisia a few turns after I finished off the Almohads and seized Cyrenaica for myself! I save often so I probably have several files for you if you like.
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