Puzz3D
09-16-2002, 03:56
Arkatreides has noticed unexplained +1 or -1 shifts in the attack/defend unit stats displayed by F1 in the single player campaign. I looks to me like the cause has to do with how wins and losses are used to adjust the combat stats.
It's 1201 in a normal early English campaign. I have a small force of archers, spearmen and urban malitia in Provence under Sir Stephen Bourchier who has 9 loyalty, 3 piety, 5 dread, 1 command, 4 acumen, no V&V's and is rank 1 with valor 2 on his unit. His unit is mounted sergeants with 28 men. When an Italian force invaded Provence I checked the F1 screen and evey unit, including Bourchier's, had +1 attack more than they should have had. After the battle which he won, Bouchier was promoted to rank 2 and had picked up the V&V's irritable and scant mercy since he had executed prisoners twice during the battle which added 2 dread to his attributes.
To check if the +1 to attack was coming from Bourchier I reloaded the 1201 savegame and took one of the valor 0 archer units and attacked Genoa. The archer F1 screen showed 0/-1/-1/2/-1 (valor/attack/defend/armor/morale) which is correct for a basic valor 0 archer with an armor upgrade. The archer was trained in Provence with an armory. Then I reloaded the 1201 savegame, and sent Bourchier with the valor 0 archer into Genoa. Now the archer showed 0/0/-1/2/-1. So, the archer is picking up a +1 attack from Bourchier. I then reloaded the 1202 game and sent the rank 2 Bourchier and the archer into Genoa. The archer then showed 1/0/0/2/-1 which is +1 to valor, +1 to attack and +1 to defend over the basic archer.
The sequence is:
Rank 0 = no change
Rank 1 = +1 attack
Rank 2 = +1 attack, +1 defend and +1 valor
Every 2 ranks of the general is supposed to give +1 valor which in turn is supposed to give +1 attack, +1 defend and +2 morale. That's not the case if the F1 screen is correct. It's very possible that the F1 screen is not correct.
A second check of the very start of a normal English campaign shows King William as Rank 4 (command 4) Early Royal Knights with +2 Dread from the V&V autocrat. If you pair a basic archer (0/-1/-2/1/-1) with him, the F1 screen shows 2/0/-1/1/-1 for the archer which is +1 to attack, +1 to defend and +2 to valor. If the unit were really valor 2, it should have had +2 to both attack and defend and +4 to morale.
King William's unit shows as 3/6/6$/5$/10 on F1. A basic Early Royal Knight should be 0/4/4$/5$/8. This would be consistent for 2 valor points coming from his rank 4 which in turn each boost attack and defend by 2. The morale is +2 over the basic unit because the general always receives 2 morale. However, the unit has a valor of 3 not 2. The third valor point seems to do nothing. So, it looks like the actual valor is one point below what is displayed, and there is no affect on morale.
Another test on Bourchier's mounted sergeants indicates another inconsistency. Base mounted sergeants are 0/2/3$/4$/2. A rank 0 Bourchier mounted sergeants trained with an armor upgrade showed 2/4/6$/5$/6 which is consistent with the valor = 2 giving +2 attack, +2 defend and +4 morale as the strategy guide and longjohn say it should. Now I attacked into Genoa and then retreated. Bourchier picked up the V&V weak attacker with -1 to command when attacking. Normally you would loose a rank for loosing the battle, but the displayed rank never drops below 0 and this unit was already at rank 0. The next turn I attacked Genoa again, and the unit shows 2/4/6$/5$/4 at rank 0 on the F1 screen. I believe the -2 to morale is due to Bourchier no longer being the commander of the two unit army which still included the archer unit. In fact, a check of a single basic archer retreating from an attack and picking up a V&V giving -1 to command showed no change in stats when I used it to attack again.
Either F1 is displaying wrong values or each win/loss directly affects the attack/defend combat values just as V&V's directly affect the morale value. We saw this alternating effect on attack and defend combat values in Shogun, but LongJohn has said that those values displayed by F1 in Shogun were incorrect. He may have meant incorrect for the multiplayer. In MTW, custom battle and multiplayer do follow the rule +1 valor = +1 attack, +1 defend and +2 morale.
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 09-20-2002).]
It's 1201 in a normal early English campaign. I have a small force of archers, spearmen and urban malitia in Provence under Sir Stephen Bourchier who has 9 loyalty, 3 piety, 5 dread, 1 command, 4 acumen, no V&V's and is rank 1 with valor 2 on his unit. His unit is mounted sergeants with 28 men. When an Italian force invaded Provence I checked the F1 screen and evey unit, including Bourchier's, had +1 attack more than they should have had. After the battle which he won, Bouchier was promoted to rank 2 and had picked up the V&V's irritable and scant mercy since he had executed prisoners twice during the battle which added 2 dread to his attributes.
To check if the +1 to attack was coming from Bourchier I reloaded the 1201 savegame and took one of the valor 0 archer units and attacked Genoa. The archer F1 screen showed 0/-1/-1/2/-1 (valor/attack/defend/armor/morale) which is correct for a basic valor 0 archer with an armor upgrade. The archer was trained in Provence with an armory. Then I reloaded the 1201 savegame, and sent Bourchier with the valor 0 archer into Genoa. Now the archer showed 0/0/-1/2/-1. So, the archer is picking up a +1 attack from Bourchier. I then reloaded the 1202 game and sent the rank 2 Bourchier and the archer into Genoa. The archer then showed 1/0/0/2/-1 which is +1 to valor, +1 to attack and +1 to defend over the basic archer.
The sequence is:
Rank 0 = no change
Rank 1 = +1 attack
Rank 2 = +1 attack, +1 defend and +1 valor
Every 2 ranks of the general is supposed to give +1 valor which in turn is supposed to give +1 attack, +1 defend and +2 morale. That's not the case if the F1 screen is correct. It's very possible that the F1 screen is not correct.
A second check of the very start of a normal English campaign shows King William as Rank 4 (command 4) Early Royal Knights with +2 Dread from the V&V autocrat. If you pair a basic archer (0/-1/-2/1/-1) with him, the F1 screen shows 2/0/-1/1/-1 for the archer which is +1 to attack, +1 to defend and +2 to valor. If the unit were really valor 2, it should have had +2 to both attack and defend and +4 to morale.
King William's unit shows as 3/6/6$/5$/10 on F1. A basic Early Royal Knight should be 0/4/4$/5$/8. This would be consistent for 2 valor points coming from his rank 4 which in turn each boost attack and defend by 2. The morale is +2 over the basic unit because the general always receives 2 morale. However, the unit has a valor of 3 not 2. The third valor point seems to do nothing. So, it looks like the actual valor is one point below what is displayed, and there is no affect on morale.
Another test on Bourchier's mounted sergeants indicates another inconsistency. Base mounted sergeants are 0/2/3$/4$/2. A rank 0 Bourchier mounted sergeants trained with an armor upgrade showed 2/4/6$/5$/6 which is consistent with the valor = 2 giving +2 attack, +2 defend and +4 morale as the strategy guide and longjohn say it should. Now I attacked into Genoa and then retreated. Bourchier picked up the V&V weak attacker with -1 to command when attacking. Normally you would loose a rank for loosing the battle, but the displayed rank never drops below 0 and this unit was already at rank 0. The next turn I attacked Genoa again, and the unit shows 2/4/6$/5$/4 at rank 0 on the F1 screen. I believe the -2 to morale is due to Bourchier no longer being the commander of the two unit army which still included the archer unit. In fact, a check of a single basic archer retreating from an attack and picking up a V&V giving -1 to command showed no change in stats when I used it to attack again.
Either F1 is displaying wrong values or each win/loss directly affects the attack/defend combat values just as V&V's directly affect the morale value. We saw this alternating effect on attack and defend combat values in Shogun, but LongJohn has said that those values displayed by F1 in Shogun were incorrect. He may have meant incorrect for the multiplayer. In MTW, custom battle and multiplayer do follow the rule +1 valor = +1 attack, +1 defend and +2 morale.
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 09-20-2002).]