Creative Assembly Valour in the Strat Guide - Game Devs [Archive]

Arkatreides

09-08-2002, 01:10

In the strat guide is says each point of valour adds +1 attack and +1 defense. However I cannot see this progression to work. It seems more like +1/2, +1/2. Is this correct?

09-08-2002, 02:20

are the bonuses to attack and defense displayed in the f1 in-battle panel?

Arkatreides

09-08-2002, 03:13

Yes, they are added ...

longjohn2

09-08-2002, 06:10

The strat guide is correct

Arkatreides

09-08-2002, 15:14

Wow, an official reply ... thanks

Still, I am a bit confused as to how it works. My valour 4 chivralic Knights with full weapon and armour upgrades have 11 attack and 11 defense (when I press F1) and 11.5$ armour.

According to the strat guide this should be attack 13 (5(base)+4(valour)+4(weapon)) and defense 13 (5+4+4 again)

Are there any other things to factor in? Am I missing something? Or interpreting something wrongly?

SattP

09-08-2002, 15:37

Take note that each point of valour also adds 2 points of morale. I think that's the most significant difference.

Arkatreides

09-08-2002, 17:02

Hmm ... I also find that sometimes all my units get a +1 bonus to attack only (WITHOUT any weapon upgrades). Again I am not sure where this comes from.

Arkatreides

09-09-2002, 02:48

Ok, after extensive (? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ) research I found that the stats add up as I thought (when I press F1) (i.e.

defense = base + valour + armour bonus + shield
attack = base + valour + weapon bonus

However, the can be a +/-1 modifier to either attack or defense and I haven't been able to figure out when it applies. If it applies, it applies for all units in the army, so that made me think that it had something to do with the general, but it seems to wary from battle to battle.

Arkatreides

09-09-2002, 15:04

*bump*

Arkatreides

09-10-2002, 15:32

Just bumping this again ... I *NEED* an answer. This is giving me nightmares!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Ok, I'm a mathmo you know, numbers not adding up is the worst that can happen to us ...

... oh well, I'll get a life now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Puzz3D

09-10-2002, 20:02

Arkatreides,

Use custom battle to check the stats because no factors from the strategic game which might affect the combat stats will be included. The V0/W0/A0 Chiv Knight is 5/5/7.5 att/def/armor on the F1 screen, although, the strat guide indicates it should be 5/5/7. I don't know where the 0.5 on the armor is coming from. The V4/W3/A3 Chiv Knight is 12/12/10.5 on F1. That's correct since you get 4V + 3W added to the att, 4V + 3A added to the def and 3A added to the armor.

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 09-10-2002).]

Arkatreides

09-10-2002, 23:03

Ok, so it is something to do with the strategy map like I expected (maybe a hidden virtue/vice)

BTW: The 0.5 comes from the small shield. That's why there is a $ after it. The shield cannot be used in melee hence it doesn't contribute to defense.

longjohn2

09-11-2002, 01:21

General's rank affects combat stats too, as do various VnVs

Arkatreides

09-11-2002, 13:31

Ah, thank you! I knew that there was something I was missing! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Oh well, back to more reverse-engineering of the code! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Kraxis

09-11-2002, 21:31

Yes, but doesn't the generals Rank grant 1 Valour for each two in Rank?
Then it should be visible that that unit has a new Valour level.
But agreed I suspect that Arkatreides has experienced some V&V's.

NinjaKilla

09-11-2002, 21:38

Do honour bonus also affect a units moral by +1?

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

Arkatreides

09-11-2002, 23:10

I am still experimenting, but so far I have NO conclusive data. V&V's don't seem consistent, unless there are some hidden one we cannot see.

Kraxis: Yes that is correct AND that is already listed as a valour bonus. I should not matter where i comes from (i.e. from the unit itself or the general). Again as I said within an army the results are consistent with each other, so it has nothing to do with individual units.

I believe there is something else, some pattern that will make me go 'Ah!'. I WILL persevere! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

NinjaKiller: Every point of valour (honour in STW) increases morale by 2 points.

Kraxis

09-12-2002, 00:19

Yes, that was exactly what I implied. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

It wasn't really directed anywhere...

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You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Arkatreides

09-13-2002, 00:04

TWO new theories:

1st: The current faction leader influences it somehow. How or why I do not know, but when my old king died (and all was fine) I got this new puny spotty heir with 1 command and all of a sudden I get this -1/-1 to attack and defense

2nd: Distance from your lands (or territorial morale boost?). It seems the further I go the greater the penalty is. I haven't been able to confirm this yet but if it were true that it would rock! It would simulate the effects of fatigue and poor nurishment after a long march into (after all) enemy lands.

More statistics will follow ...

Arkatreides

09-13-2002, 03:21

Hmm ... the first theory seems to be the one that fits the data most closely. I only ever got a bonus when the king was present ... but I am still collecting data.

Of course if the devs would tell me the answer it would make my life easier http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Kraxis

09-13-2002, 04:00

Yes, but there are special king V&V's, so they might have an impact.

Write down every stat and V&V the king has and then find a general that fits it (or at least see calculate the supposed diference).
Then you can do the test and really see if th king does give some special bonus.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Arkatreides

09-13-2002, 16:22

*just bumping this again*

*Still waiting for input/data/explanation*

Dragon

09-13-2002, 17:10

Errrr...

Even at the danger of saying something stupid, but does not the manual explicitly state that there ARE hidden vices ?

One ability of the spy is listed as "can detect hidden vices in your generals".

But maybe I am wrong, don't have the manual with me right now ...

Kraxis

09-13-2002, 19:06

No you are rigth Dragon, but you can always see your own generals Secret Vices, so it is of no consequence in this case.

------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Arkatreides

09-13-2002, 19:30

No, you can see your own vices all the time (even the secret ones).

I still belive it is either of the two theories mentioned above. I can't wait to get back home to collect further data.

Arkatreides

09-13-2002, 21:06

Quote from Kraxis' thread(threat? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ) on crusades

Quote I will keep bumping this, until either I get an answer ("this is why we..." or "It will be included in the patch.") or the thread gets deleted.[/QUOTE]

Well ... I will keep bumping this, until either I get an answer or the thread gets deleted.

+DOC+

09-13-2002, 21:12

nooo you won't.... doh! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Arkatreides

09-14-2002, 04:59

Yes I will! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Arkatreides

09-15-2002, 15:32

*bump*

Kraxis

09-16-2002, 15:19

Ark I'm here to help you now. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
You are not alone, for I'm your brother in arms, you came to my rescue and I will do the same to you. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

But really, I wenture a guess that this is actually not a bug or anything. It is simply that the general has either gotten a Vice in the battle (you didn't notice and didn't look at the F1 before it happened in that battle) or he has a Vice already like Bad Defender.

------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Arkatreides

09-16-2002, 15:51

That is what I thought as well (after getting the reply from longjohn). However I a) always check at the very beginning of a battle and b) if they were vices and virtues they would affect valour as a whole and not just attack or defense individually (e.g. a poor attacker gives -1 valour or so, NOT just -1 attack)

Arkatreides

09-16-2002, 16:04

Crosslinking to Puzz3D's post:

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001666.html

Kraxis

09-16-2002, 16:41

Posted there...

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Cheetah

09-27-2002, 02:10

PAF

Arkatreides

09-27-2002, 13:05

PAF?

barocca

10-14-2002, 05:59

not fully explained yet,
bumped this and Puzz's thread on same topic. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001666.html

Pragmatic

10-14-2002, 10:39

I don't know if it's been posted yet. But a general's stars tranlate to a valor bonus (at least on the strategic map) at a 2-star to 1-valor bonus. Thus, another benefit of high-rank generals. (And a prime reason why the Byz will conquer the world! For the first two generations, at least. After which I see lots of 0-star heirs....)