View Full Version : lib Almohad Empire about to collapse
Got a bit more opportunity to play MTW as I just had a long weekend at home.
My Almohad (Normal) campaign has reached 1159 and up to now things have gone quite well but are beginning to look a bit dodgy.
Having read the strategy guide I tried to do exactly what it said.
„X I bribed El Cid and seized Valencia, unfortunately he got killed in a rebellion soon afterwards.
„X I then bribed the General in Portugal and annexed that country for the Muslim faith.
„X Meanwhile my emissaries were busy hunting the Egyptian ruler carrying my generous offer of an alliance.
Unfortunately, the Egyptians were not following the same script and not only did they refuse my offer of an alliance but they signed a treaty with the Turks (who were supposed to be distracting them) and began massing a large army on my border. At the same time the Spanish and Argonese who I should have been attacking were falling over themselves to sign an alliance.
So, I closed the Strategy Guides accepted an alliance with the Catholic's and launched a pre-emptive strike on Egypt. I have seized Egypt itself plus Arabia, Tripoli, and all of the Egyptian possessions in the Middle East. Turkey foolishly declared war soon afterwards and immediately lost Syria and all its provinces in the Middle East to my all conquering army with its +7 General.
The entire bottom section of the map is now orange and heavy investment in farming has made the Almohad Empire the wealthiest on the board.
Unfortunately, things have just turned pear-shaped. The French have declared a crusade which is heading for Granada and threatens to overrun my wealthy Iberian provinces as it includes a unit of Knights Templar and several battles of Royal Knights. I just don¡¦t have the heavy cavalry to combat such four-legged tanks although I do have several Princes and Ghulam Bodyguard units in Cordoba.
At the same time Turkey has announced a Jihad in an attempt to recapture Syria which whilst less of a threat prevents me redeploying my mercenary horse units to Spain, not that they could get there in time.
I still haven¡¦t worked out the benefits of Trade and yet seem to have managed to become the richest empire merely on the basis of farming and mining. So far I have only bought one merchants guild and that was a waste of money (1,000f for a return of 32f per year is not a good investment)
I am also struggling to fully understand the Tech-Tree as I find myself building the pre-requisite buildings for certain troop types only to find that they just don¡¦t appear on the training menu. The manual is not very clear on some of the conditions. For instance I tried to recruit Marmeluke Cavalry in Egypt and did everything necessary but nothing appeared despite the fact that Egypt is supposed to be famous for this troop type.
I suspect that these troops are only available to the Egyptian faction but that is not clear from the book.
I think I am about to lose this campaign because of my lack of heavy cavalry and heavy infantry. Sahara Cavalry and Bedouin Camels just cant¡¦ hold their own against armoured Knights whilst Almohad Militia and Nubian Spearmen can¡¦t stand against Armoured men at arms and Byzantine Infantry.
Its annoying because I had the money I just couldn¡¦t¡¦ find the right troops.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Mamluk cavalry is exclusive to Egypt. The Almohads do not have ANY heavy cavalry besides Ghulam Bodyguards. Your hope for fending off heavies lies in your spearmen, legions of Muwahids, Murabitin javelins, and AUMs.
Do NOT expect to counter knights with light cav. Sucker them into ambushes or charging stupidly into your spearmen --- shouldn't be too hard, as knights are usually dumb. Byzantines are a tougher nut to crack, but again wreck their Kataphrakoi with your spear units and use your AUMs, Muwahids, and Murabitins to deal with the Byzantine Infantry and Varangians (who outclass all your infantry units, which is why numbers are good).
Kamui_Imagawa
09-24-2002, 23:49
My advice is, dont worry masively about the troopes, instead spend money in advancing your castles to super fortresses in kkey positions about the place. then even with lighter troops you'll be able to use the castle to your advantage when attacked
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The assassin of night is a dangerous foe, however, the assassin of day is most fear-inspiring and dangerous foe from life and battlefield alike.
Build Nubian Spearmen, they will see the Knights off I assure you.
Almohad Urban Militia rush everything in sight. That is what I'm doing with my Almohad campaign. I'm in 1131 and I've conquered France and the entire Iberian peninsula. Germany declared war on me and I conquered Burgundy. The English continent holdings were reduced by the French to just Aquitaine so I sided with them. I'm building mainly nubian spearmen, almohad militia and muwahid foot. I'm also building saharan cavalry to chase fleeing troops.
Everybody retreats from my high level generals. Even 2 stacks of French and German troops just retreat from my one stack attacking force. Once the French commenced tactical battle but withdrew once I got my troops near.
I agree, almohad urban militia, combined with a sacrifice of Granada and the other Iberian province (forget the name) might be the order of the day. Once those heavily armored cavalry units start fighting in the Desert, they'll soon be reduces to exhausted piles of sweat (until the sweat evaporates away ).
Looking at the stats for the Almohad units, they really don't get any good dedicated anti-cavalry units. I can't remember if they get Sacaren Infantry, if they do, make those the backbone of your army. Alternatively, you can invest heavily in camel warriors, as they do surprisingly well vs horse cavalry, even the heavier later-war cavalry. (I've demolished Kataphraktoi Cavalry with Camel units regularly, although it's not a sure thing)
Another tactic is to stick with Nubian Spearmen, but invest heavily in Arbalesters. Even though the spearmen themselves won't do well against later-period units, they should hold up well enough to hold units in place while your Arbalesters decimate their ranks. Treat them as throw-away units, with a good production supply of replacements, and you should do ok.
Another option is a Almohad Urban Militia/Arbalester army. Use the AUMs to stop/engage the enemy, and the Arbalesters to cut them down. That might be enough to make it through the whole game, although you might need less armored units for the desert campaigns.
Defend your provinces. Hide your troops in forests or in the edge of the map while defending. AUM can tear through royal knights taking just slightly more losses. Almohads have good heirs.
Muwahid foot are ok cavalry killers. Murabitin infantry are also good. Just keep them behind nubian spearmen.
Psst ...
A camel unit can win against early royal knights one on one .... (and is very cheap)
Forget the heavy cav, make sure your enemies do, too. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Hmmm!
Seems I am under estimating my own troops. I have plenty of Almohad Urban Militia and Nubian Spearmen. I also have several units of Berber Camels in Morrocco.
So perhaps all is not as black as it first appears. The other point to note is that the border between Valencia and Aragon is protected by a river so the French will have to fight their way across a bridge to reach my troops.
They have a lot of Ballista but I have a lot of Desert Archers.
Definitely feeling a little more confident.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
well here is my first tip
dont follow the strategy guide.
first move is to make as many reliable alliances as you can, try to seal them with a marrige or two from thier half... if your smart you migh try to knock off thier king and hiers to gain the lands easilyt....
Yoko Kono
09-25-2002, 17:51
leave plenty of archers in valencia along with some spear troops to hold the bridge and AUM as support
try and bring the bulk of your forces to castille or even better navare (if you control it) as this is one horrendous provence to attack, i once held off over 2000 men with just 600 on its steep unforgiving slopes
On trade:
To get florins out of it, you must establish shipping routes from a province that has a port, a merchant and tradeable resources.
You establish it by building a "bridge" of ships from your province with the resources to a province owned by another faction. You can't trade in this way with your own faction... It all goes to "internal trade" you won't see half the money, thus ending up with a trading house producing 32 florins...
The route of connecting ships can be broken by an enemy fleet (a ship or several ships) that enters the same sea area. You must destroy the enemy fleet to open the trade route again.
So there, that is how you can trade for money. If I were you, I'd build a great lot of ships (when the resources allow) and establish a solid line of ships from the Mediterranean to the Baltic Sea.
I play the Danes and in my current campaign, albeit I control 80% of the Baltic provinces, I have a line of longboats and caravels from the Baltic, past Ireland and the British Isles to Gibraltar. My seaside provinces with a port and a merchant trade with every other port along the route, and several provinces with tradeable goods get over 100 to 200 florins each year out of it. The Almohads disrupted my trade severely and even invaded england http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif but I smashed their pathethic ships and drove them off http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif Money is good again.
Another annoying note on the trade thingy:
Since the Almohads, in their infinite evil, invaded England and BECAUSE OF THE SNAIL EATING FRENCHIES WHO DIDN'T LEND A HAND TO CHRISTIAN BROTHERS destroyed them before I had the manpower to help Henry off, I had to conquer the whole of England myself later. But with the Englishmen gone and merged (I hope they resurrect...) to another factions I can't trade with the British Isles anymore. I lost a lot of gold that way... And I couldn't leave the Almohads there either since they were probing my borders and disrupted any trade I had from their British outposts.
This clearly demonstrates a ruler that conquers everthing is quite different from a smaller (but possibly richer!) trading oriented one: There is nobody to trade with if you smash and kill everyone else.
Just a quick note of thanks to those who re-assured me about the ability of my Almohad troops to stand up to the French.
You were right!
The French crusade looked impressive with those Knights Templars and masses of Royal Knights but as predicted they were as fragile as their historical counter-parts at Agincourt and Crecy.
As it happens the crusade did not cross the border between Aragon and Valencia so I did not get to use the river as defence. Nor did I get to face them with my main army which was waiting for them on the other side.
They came through Castile and invaded Cordoba hitting my reserve army instead which had me a bit worried.
Even so the Reserve Army had 2xAUM's, 1xSpearmen, 1xMilitia Sergeant's and 1xUM plus 4xDesert Archers and 2xBeber Camel Archers plus 2xGhulam Bodyguard and mercenary Hob unit in the first rank.
I managed to find a nice round hill to deploy on and used my Infantry to make a defensive barrier on the slopes whilst the archers stood behind and the Horse was deplyed in reserve and the camel units were deployed in a refused position behind each flank.
The AI opened the battle by attempting to turn my left with their Knight Templars. I countered with my camels and the Knight stalled at the foot of the slope behind my left whilst the camel archers steadily thinned their ranks. I sent the other camel unit over to add to their misery and they never managed to advance any further ending up in a little pile of metal and dead horses.
Meanwhile, their Royal Knight were struggling on the slope in front of my position and suffering the full horror of my massed archers. A couple of men managed to close with the AUM but most just died where they stood. The slope was covered with dead horses.
With their cavalry gone the French advanced their own archers almost completely unsupported. Really dumb AI behaviour.
A quick charge by my horse and camels routed them and they scattered being chased and cut down all over the map.
Most of my archers were out of ammo by now so I withdrew them and began drawing on my reinforcements which were basically another unit of Ghulam Bodyguard and some ordinary Urban Militia.
Meanwhile the French were bringing on their infantry reinforcements consisting of a large force of Militia and Peasants bolstered by Feudal Sergeants and Feudal Men-at arms.
I quickly recalled all my horse and camels and let the French come to me.
The militia and peasants tried to attack the left of my position were met head on by my Militia Sergeants and routed. A unit of camels made sure they kept running.
Their heavy infantry tried to turn my right and were met head on by the spearmen who blokced their path and then hit in the flank by both units of AUM. They didn't stand long and soon my cavalry were chasing them back down the slope and off the map.
The remants retreated to Castile and have made no further attmept at invasion. Whilst their reserve force in Aragon has made two aborted attacks on Valencia but don't seem keen to force an actual battle.
So! thanks everyone you were right.
I can now turn my attention back to the East where rebelions in Lower Armenia are being a pain.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
lancer63
10-16-2002, 04:26
Yup Elmos kick butt everywhere they go. I have withstood Egyptian onslaughts of 2.5 to one under the delicious sun of Cyrenaica and man let me tell you my moorish devils were magnificent.
It also makes me feel sad for the spanish too. they have to withstand crusade after crusade in castille. The crusaders just stay there too afraid of my boys to cross the frontier.
So I tried a spanish campaing and decided not to let crusades through. first one turned back, second one attacked me, I repelled them, then the elmos broke the alliance, overran my army killed my king and ruined my game.
So I´m sticking to elmos and byzs, forget the pope boys.
In my campiagn the Spanish have relocated themselves to the Russian Steppes. Their empire has been destroyed twice, both by the Golden Horde and their ancestors but they always re-generate in the East.
The English have an Eastern Empire too and most of the British Isles are actually in rebel hands.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Sir Kuma of The Org
10-16-2002, 21:11
Didz, you had to try to become allies with the turks not the Egyptians. It's the sandwich principle http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif, you don't want to be the meat in between.
Like some posters said the Almohad urban militia are a very good unit in the starting era but be carefull in the desert they are heavily armored and tire easily , like the heavy cav Ghulam Bodyguards who are very displined compared to their catholic counterparts.
The nubian spearmen i still use a lot still (Almohad 1288), they are very disciplined and ignore routers than are not elite or disciplined. Cheap, numerous (100 per unit) and don't rout easily even if they are loosing when they have a first contact with heavy cav, they just overwelmed then with numbers.
In a couple of generations from now, beware of your heirs, they become weak , bloathed, etc... Don't hesitate to kill them unless you want your faction to plit in two with a civil revolt (I checked the loyalty of my govs and gens after each new Sultan is crowned-having an emissary in every province helps).
And don't forget to start cranking out the baggalas to protect your coastline or even better become master of the seas before the Italians and Egyptians blockated you completely.
Fun isn't it?
Thanks for the advice Sir Kuma, bit late though as it is now 1347 and most of what you predicted has already happened.
Still relying heavily on a combination of AUM's, Desert Archers and Armenian Heavy Cavalry although I they are now heavily enhanced with armour and weapons. Have a few guns just for novelty value and seiges.
My hiers are a complete disgrace as you predicted. I have already sent two off to their deaths but the current one isn't much better. Biggest problem being their poor acumen which is really damaging my income.
The naval war is already won, I own the Med and have only withdrawn from the English Channel because the maintenance cost of my ships was so crippling. Many of the coastal provinces round the Med are in rebel hands, which I assumed allowed me to continue trading which them but I am begining to have have doubts about this as my trade income is pretty low (sort of 300-400 per port)
The Almo empire currently extends from Spain to the Russian steppes via the middle east and Turkey. Egypt, Spain and the Golden Horde are being tolerated in token provinces. Turkey was eliminated by rebels but has yet to re-emerge. Most of Europe is +30% Muslim.
Not sure what to do next.
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Didz
Fortis balore et armis
Mori Gabriel Syme
10-17-2002, 19:16
Congratulations on your successful defence, Didz.
In my current game as the English, the Almohad seem to have enough money to build their fortresses out of gold. Just last night, I lost Aquitaine & Toulouse after defending or recapturing them about a dozen times each. I simply could not replace troops as quickly as he stepped in & killed them, but he never seemed to run out of men; in fact his armies became bigger as mine declined.
It didn't help that his king is a six-star general with high dread so that a couple of times I had my entire starting force rout, to be chopped down from behind by his cavalry. After those disasters, my best general (3-stars) turned into a coward & I had to get rid of him. The AUM seem unstoppable; in my last battle in Aquitaine, my archers/longbow/crossbow had no effect as the AUM charged the line, chewed through an entire spear unit in my center with only a couple of losses, & routed the archers in the center. Finally, I trapped his king alone with 8 units of reinforcements; he killed most of them over the next three minutes, & my army routed when his army finally arrived. I managed to keep three units on the field, thinking I would win as the defender by avoiding further combat. Their morale improved as they simply stood at a distance from his forces, who also simply stood there. Then my guys routed spontaneously.
The Almohad will probably rule the world in my game; I wish I were they.
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Others enslave by victory,
Their subjects, as their foes, oppress;
Anna conquers but to free,
And governs but to bless. -- Edmund Smith (Anna stands for England)
In my game, byz, hard, early, it is 1200 something now and evil elmo owns africa up to egypt, spain, france some hre up to austria and papal states. i have everything south of the black sea, up to sinai, khazaria and volga bulgaria, the balkan including hungary, northern italian provinces.
it was time to kick butt so i attacked elmo navy forces, invaded egypt, made tunisia (or whatever it is called) rebel, invaded papal states. on their turn, elmo attacked milan and hungary.
the outcome was positive:
all elmo navy is eliminated
i took egypt but lost milan (calculated loss) castles are sieged.
i kept hungary and elmo kept papal states.
bribed the tunesian rebels.
my strategy is the following: keep hungary, venice, constantinople and sinai (fortress) at all costs.
try to slice n dice the elmo empire up into pieces. in other words:
1. hold on to tunesia in order to conquer everything east of tunesia and west of sinai. conquer desertlands asap due to climate penalties for heavy inf and cav.
2. conquer provence and acquitane in order to split elmo france from elmo spain.
3. conquer switzerland to be able to build pikemen.
since they have no real navy anymore rebellions are likely to occur and troopmovements can only be done over land.
i wonder if it will work.... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Pragmatic
10-17-2002, 22:28
Quote Originally posted by Rnold:
2. conquer provence and acquitane in order to split elmo france from elmo spain.
[/QUOTE]
Toulouse and Aquitaine are the two bottlenecks on the France side.
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As for the original poster, the problem is that the Almohad's territory is pristine. Build up a massive army, attack Almohad territory, and just pillage. If the Almohad retreats from an unwinnable battle, all the better.
That's my strategy. I figure, if I can't take and hold a territory, better to damage or destroy buildings. You get money, and their building program is pushed back decades. Admittedly, you lose a lot of troops when the enemy finally DOES stand up and fight, but that's the breaks.
Another thing to do is win the naval war, then attack rear areas. The Almohad's main territory is the Iberian peninsula, and the first three north-African provinces. If you wipe out their money-making territories, all the better. Don't try to hold, just slash-and-burn.
I'd also suggest stop building in contested provinces until you've got superiority. Otherwise, you're building up, just to have it pillaged again.
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