Poland

[pithorr]

Hm, I think Poland as a single province is much to big one...
Historically it should be at least divided on Minor- (Lesser-), Major- (Great-) Poland and Masovia, like it was made to France, Italy or Germany...

[The Black Ship]

The whole Eastern side of the map is a bit too "convenient", bundling massive regions together. It must have come down to a "feel" issue by the game developers.
Pithorr, I'm sure you could interst some of our resident mapmakers/modders to work on it for you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Kraxis]

Consider Khazar... it is effectively larger than most of France, which is about 5-6 provinces.

[Cousin Zoidfarb]

I agree.

[Vlad The Impaler]

i agress with u; there are a lot of provinces too big;
this subject was disccussed also in another topic if u want totake a look :

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....t=2541; (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=2541;)

i completly agree with u

[sassbarman]

When your playing world conquest and your trying to micromanage a massive empire the last thing you want is more provinces. However I do agree that poland should be divided into atleast 3 provinces.

[Spetulhu]

Perhaps it`s a population issue? The east of Europe may be
so sparsely populated that you couldn`t get any income except by combining many small insignificant provinces.

[Dijeeh]

Or there is always the thaught in the back of ones head thinking the developers simply did not want to spend extra time deviding these huge provinces into more historicaly realistic sizes.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[MizuKokami]

the thing to consider when you think about the size of territories, is the amount of time it takes to travel across them. khazar was mentioned as being the size of all of france. what, it takes 5 years to travel through france but only one year to travel through khazar. i realize there are a few more attractive women in france, but dam. the size of poland is the reason why so many other factions go through it when ever they have a crusade. cuts travel time down.

[Vlad The Impaler]

yes MizuKokami maybe in your mind the medieval poland can be passed by an army in one year;i cant remember any western army that passed Poland except the germans in '39
maybe u spent 5 yrs to travel France lookin at those excellent museums ( wich i doubt ) but i think u spend 5 yrs too in medieval ages tryin to pass trough Khazar;this beeing an happy situation when u are not ending up as a slave:D
I think Dijeeh have a point : "the developers simply did not want to spend extra time deviding these huge provinces into more historicaly realistic sizes."

[pithorr]

Quote[/b] (Spetulhu @ Nov. 23 2002,10:27)]Perhaps it`s a population issue? The east of Europe may be
so sparsely populated that you couldn`t get any income except by combining many small insignificant provinces.
So why Livonia, Chernigov, Pereyeslav, (not counting Malta or Rhodos) exist alone? They rather weren't more populated in late 1000s.

Oh, I've forgotten Galicia (in the S-E part of Polish territory).
BTW: Map of Poland isn't changing in all periods and historically is the closest to the Late one.
Due to those reasons:
Early: Poland (without Galicia), Silesia, Pommerania.
High: hm, in a matter fact kingdom was divided in small principalities in that period, so Poland rather should not be playable...
Late: only Poland including Galicia.

[Spetulhu]

Well, it was just an idea. Livonia at least became rather important for both the Russians and the Swedes in the later periods of the middle ages.

[pithorr]

Like Galicia for Poles, Hungarians and Kiev Ruthenia...

[deejayvee]

Quote[/b] (Dijeeh @ Nov. 23 2002,10:34)]Or there is always the thaught in the back of ones head thinking the developers simply did not want to spend extra time deviding these huge provinces into more historicaly realistic sizes.
It's probably a marketing thing. People in Western Europe (or descended from Western Europe ie USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc) are a bigger market for them than Eastern Europe.

The unfortunate fact is that more people know the history and geography of Western Europe than Eastern Europe. This board is a good example. Almost everyone has some idea what happened in the West during the middle ages, but it's a smaller number of people who know what happened in the East.

[Al Qasim Hussein]

There's an 'east?'

[deejayvee]

Quote[/b] (Al Qasim Hussein @ Nov. 29 2002,15:30)]There's an 'east?'
I'm not sure, but I've heard rumours. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[fenir]

Quote[/b] ]Al Qasim Hussein,
There's an 'east?'

I even hear that they don't speak English And may have a different religon or two??

But it's all hersay, I personaly can't believe it.

fenir http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[deejayvee]

Quote[/b] (fenir @ Nov. 29 2002,21:37)]I even hear that they don't speak English And may have a different religon or two??
Fenir, you're blowing my mind with all this crazy-talk.


Man, I have to go lie down.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

[MizuKokami]

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ Nov. 23 2002,15:38)]yes MizuKokami maybe in your mind the medieval poland can be passed by an army in one year;i cant remember any western army that passed Poland except the germans in '39
maybe u spent 5 yrs to travel France lookin at those excellent museums ( wich i doubt ) but i think u spend 5 yrs too in medieval ages tryin to pass trough Khazar;this beeing an happy situation when u are not ending up as a slave:D
I think Dijeeh have a point : "the developers simply did not want to spend extra time deviding these huge provinces into more historicaly realistic sizes."
you misunderstood what i said...i was being sarcastic. of couse it takes the same amount of time to travel 5000 miles in france as it takes to travel 5000 miles in poland. unless....maybe poland has less impassable terrain? does france have a lot of mountains?

[pithorr]

Well, Poland is/was rather easy passable plains, maybe except some big river crossing (Vistula, Bug, Dnestr, Dnepr etc.)... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[el_slapper]

The N/W half of France is rather flat. The S/E half is really mountainous; it is an horror to go from Grenoble(near Switzerland) to Bordeaux(Aquitaine). It is far easier, even if longer, to go from Brest(Brittany) to Strasbourg(on the Rhine). So, if only the "move" effect was taken in account, there should be a big NW France, and small pieces of SE France Provence & Toulouse, especially, should be divided, as Ile-De-France & Champagne could be easily united...

But on an historic point of view, the current division makes sense.

[A.Saturnus]

I like the idea of smaller provinces ecspecially because it would make larger empires more difficult to handle. This all-European empires are unrealistic anyway (I know they Romans were that big, but noone since). This would lay more focus on establishing smaller kingdoms and holding them.

[solypsist]

I recently caught one of the Devs online and asked him/her (who shall remain anonymous) what the deal was, andthe answer I got was that land-size was decided upon potential for income value. For example, it takes more land in the steppes of Russia to produce the same income as the rich fields in southern France, so the size must reflect that. Since each province has a potential value (either from land/farming, or trading, or mines) the size reflects it, as does the type of border (hard to defend, etc.) So that explains the extra long stretch of desert in northern Africa, and the biiiiig provinces in easternmost Russia/Asia.

[MizuKokami]

so the idea that england, the hre, and france going through poland to get to the holy lands with their crusades, (to shorten their travel time) is not actually sound?

[solypsist]

no, since crusaders can just as easily use non-enemy ships and ports to arrive at their destination.