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DoggFood
04-29-2003, 19:31
Why choose missile troops?

In a 15k game your melee units should cost you on average 1200-1500 florins. Your average missile unit however, will cost on average 175-450 florins. So by choosing missile units you're actually saving money that can be spent on more upgrades for melee units.

What type of missile troops are there?

There's three distinct classes of missile troops archers, arblasters/crowsbows, and pavise units.
Archers units can beat enemy missile troops that don't have pavise but will lose roughly 1/2 to 3/4 of their numbers and will be low or out of ammo. Troops with pavise can wipe out an archer troop with minor loses. Archers do have 1 advantage that they is can fire over enemy troops because their shot goes up and then down at an arch when firing. But this causes the speed of their arrows in flight to be slower which can make it difficult to hit running cavalry.
Arbalester/crossbow units fire at a slow rate of speed but have powerful shots. They have longer range then archers and carry more ammo. Crossbow units have shorter range and a weaker shot then arbalesters. The can hold out against pavise units for a while but will eventually fall because of the defense of a pavise unit is higher.
Pavise units carry large man-sized shields, it lowers their moving speed but is a great defense against missile fire. They can beat all other missile classes with little losses they carry plenty of ammo but tire quickly if their forced to move.

How many should I get and what to upgrade them with?

Three to four missile units is what I recommend, expect on steppe land I always take four. Upgrading a missile troop's weapon will increase his attack by 1 but that only applies to hand to hand attacks not missile attacks, armor is a cheap upgrade and it increases the defense of the unit by one and will protect against all attacks, valor increases his attack and defense by 1, (much like an armor and weapon upgrade would do) their moral by 2 and reduces the time it takes that unit to reload it's missile weapon. Armor is the best upgrade to take because you can easily upgrade a unit 3 times cheaply but it will cost more to upgrade if the unit already has valor upgrades. If you want to give your troops valor upgrades give them 2 this will give them a good defense and a fast shot but it's expensive.

What formations should I use when battling other archers?
A missile unit can fire more accurately if every man in the unit has a clear line of sight on the enemy. So by stretching your missile lines into a 2 deep formation every man can see their targets and won't have to shoot over top of the man in front of them.(note pavise/crossbow units can fire with a small disadvantage at 3 ranks deep any more ranks then that and some rows of men wont be able to fire) Clicking the loose formation button reduces the amount of damage that unit will take from missile fire BUT only if that units ranks or lines do not run into another missile troop lines. Against archer fire loose formation will greatly reduce losses while against arblaster/crosswbow fire it will only make a minor impact. A good time to use loose formation is when 2 or more enemy missile troops are firing at just 1 of your troops. Also use loose formation on the flanks of your missile formation and spread them out so their not running into other friendly missile troops.

Get an angle when firing on enemy pavise units.

A pavise shield best deflects shots when they’re coming straight on. Getting an angle on them when firing can earn you a few extra kills.

How to stop cavalry from killing your missile troops.

Be watching for any cavalry movement by the enemy when engaged in a missile fight. Be sure to watch fast cavalry especially. As soon as his cavalry pushes past his own missile line send your cavalry quickly in the direction he's going at your missile troops. Your cavalry should be placed at start in a position where it is NOT tucked behind any infantry unit so they can quickly make their way to intercept enemy cavalry. A second defense against enemy cavalry is your own missile troops. If that enemy cavalry has taken to many loses from your missile troops while trying to attack your missile units it may rout before it even makes it too your lines.(obviously the less valor the attacking cavalry has, the better) A combination of archers and pavise units work well when employing this strategy.

How to get a little extra range out of missile units.

Units fire farther when shooting from a hill. Also units will fire farther if you select them and command them to fire at an enemy unlike leaving them sit and wait till the enemy gets in range.

Tera
04-29-2003, 21:14
Good post mate, quite an essential guide for missile units in MTW 1.1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

starkhorn
04-30-2003, 12:17
Great post and thank you for sharing that information. I keep losing missile fights and now I think I know why.

Posts like this would really help noob's to mp like myself to improving themselves to online play. Could we sticky this post perhaps or something like that ?

Also any vet's out there feel like sharing their secrets in online play (including melee units) ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ErikJansen
04-30-2003, 12:34
Secrets abound in many of the currently existing posts here in the Jousting Fields, browse through them and you shall discover http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As for this post, very very nice indeed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Regards,

Crandaeolon
04-30-2003, 12:41
Nice post Dogg http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

But I have niggles Protect your kneecaps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Quote[/b] ]Arbalester/crossbow units fire at a slow rate of speed but have powerful shots. They have longer range then archers and carry more ammo.

IIRC, Arbalesters and crossbowmen do not carry more ammo than archers. They last longer than archers mainly because of their slow rate of fire.


Quote[/b] ]valor increases his attack and defense by 1, (much like an armor and weapon upgrade would do) their moral by 2 and reduces the time it takes that unit to reload it's missile weapon.

Just to clarify, Valour upgrades do _not_ increase a unit's armour. A unit's defensive capabilities consist of Defense (defense against melee attacks) and Armour (defense against missile attacks). Valour increases melee Attack, melee Defense, and morale.

I don't know about reload; where did you hear / how do you confirm that? Valour does have a minor impact on the killing power of a missile unit's ranged attacks, but the impact is rather small.

Cheetah
04-30-2003, 16:39
Yes, that reload thing is interesting. I have never heard it before, though actually it would make sense if it were true.

BTW, nice post Doggfood http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif though I would add that one of the main reasons to buy ranged units is not just that you can save florins for your melee, which is true of course, but without missiles you cannot defend any position which is essential in 2v2 and upward.

DoggFood
04-30-2003, 18:41
Thanks for the corrections Cran, but I always thought the more increasing the valor of a unit which increases it's defense helps protect against missile fire and melee. I'll have to do some testing.

I've never fully tested the reload thing, but it's a rumor i've heard.

I plan to write a couple more articles on cavlary tactics and infantry tactics.

Tera
04-30-2003, 18:45
Since the beginning of Total War, honour/valour increased defense, attack and morale but not armour. Weapons increased attack. Armour increased defense and armour.

In my opinion, the reload theory is a myth. I'm sure Yuuki can throw the final word. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

tootee
04-30-2003, 19:19
About shooters in loose formation.. i think that is at best as good as having shooters in single row.

Close the loose formation when you see cav coming your shooters' way.. or else a few fast kills from the cav and byebye to ya shooters if they are at low valor. this is because loose formation suffer morale penalty, and a high rate of casulty, i.e. men dying quickly in a short time, also inflict extra morale penalty, on top of net casualty.

This is esp impt after a while of gun duel, when the gunners are tired *morale penalty*, and suffering casulty *morale penalty*.

Tempiic
04-30-2003, 19:20
Hmmm just a theory myself.... based on nothing more than own impressions what happened during games without any waterproof facts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Fatigue has influence on the accuracy of a shot as well as the rate of reloading. Higher valour will decrease the rate of fatigue somewhat.

I could be very far from the truth

Kongamato
05-01-2003, 04:02
Remember also that loose formation is a two-edged sword when facing units with a low angle of fire, like crossbows or arbalests. Loose formation allows less bolts to hit your missile units by having them pass through. Where do those bolts go? At whatever is standing behind your missile units.

So, when facing loose formation, you can exploit it by moving your own missile units upwards and firing through it at the enemy melee soldiers, gaining more meaningful kills.

Aelwyn
05-01-2003, 06:37
Quote[/b] (Tempiic @ April 30 2003,13:20)]Hmmm just a theory myself.... based on nothing more than own impressions what happened during games without any waterproof facts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Fatigue has influence on the accuracy of a shot as well as the rate of reloading. Higher valour will decrease the rate of fatigue somewhat.

I could be very far from the truth
Not sure about the rate of fatigue, but tired units are less accurate. In the desert, I always wonder why people take pav arbs. People still do this, like it will be effective. In the desert, I can take desert archers and barely be at an advantage. That is only in the missle battle though. If I rush a unit of Pav Arbs in the desert, they will usually route quicker than a unit of desert archers, with morale and losses taken into effect of course. Its true, like Tootee said, units with loose formations like desert archers and Turcoman Foot do suffer a slight morale penalty, but arbs are worse imo, because their morale is lower to begin with.

In short, people who play against me, please keep taking pav arbs in the desert....I'll wait till your unit is very tired and my unit is still fresh, then beat you in a missle battle/beat you in melee (since those who take pav arbs usually don't hesitate to take high armour melee units)

DoggFood
05-01-2003, 06:50
Tera I said "valor increases his attack and defense by 1, (much like an armor and weapon upgrade would do)" I know valor doesn't increase the armor value but it increase the defense value just like an armor upgrade.

Also did some testing with valor on missile units. I tested a 3v pavise vs a 0v 3armor pavise, if what cran said was true that only armor upgrades will protect against missile shots the 3v should go down first. But instead in the 2 times i ran this test the 3v pavise would kill off close to 40 men before running out of ammo while the v0 A3 unit would still have a couple more minutes worth of bolts to fire. I believe this proves that raising the valor on missile units protects against missile attacks just like armor upgrades and missile units with valor reload faster.

Crandaeolon
05-01-2003, 14:36
Did ya do those tests online? Custom battles won't work, because the computer-controlled unit sometimes won't fire every volley for some strange reason.

I'm quite certain that valour upgrades do not increase missile defense (=armour), but perhaps the results could be explained by the (slightly) increased accuracy that valour upgrades give to missile units?