Newbie questions on tactis

[mav3rick]

hi ppl,

I'm been playing this game for a while, but i still haven't figured out a few things. Hope you guys can help me out.

1) Large shields??
What are the bonuses for the units with large shields?? I would think that they would be able to defend more against arrows, but that doesnt seem to be the case.

2) Retreating
Sometimes when a unit has been engaged in a fight, how can i get them to retreat without using the rout function? I've tried clicking on the desired location but the unit still continues fighting.

3) Retraining of royal knights
I usually start the campaign from the dark age. I've royal knight units which i've maintain all the way until the next age. after that, i cant seem to be able to retrain them anymore. is this always the case??

Hope you guys out there can help me out. Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Dogmeat]

hmmm i'm far from an expert but i'll give it a shot

1) Large shields protect from arrows i'm fairly sure, i remember spearmen taking a while to die from my archers on a few occassions.

2) Tell them to withdraw, meaning they attempt to leave the field but in a controlled and slightly more organised way, plus you don't get the coward vice, which is good. Bear in mind that units have a life of their own, impetetous units get so involved in the fight that they ignore your orders altogether, i occasionally lose whole units of knights because they refuse to stop fighting and run away from hordes of anti-cav troops.

3) I guess as technology progresses, the style of royal knights changes, as their appearance changes so does the quality of their armour and weapons. Hence old fashioned knights can't be retrained once you are in the next age ... i think.

[Jabberwock]

Hi Mav3rick http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Here's my thoughts, though I'm fully prepared to be corrected by the seniors around here.

1. I think they just get a defensive bonus in battle. If you use F1 mid battle it'll show stats for all your units. The defence value for these units has a little symbol next to it, to show that this defensive value includes a shield. Perhaps they don't get the bonus if they are attacking?

2. If a unit is one-on-one with another it's difficult to get them to back up. Repeated clicking sometimes works, but don't expect to be able to back off if the unit is deeply in combat, unless it is significantly faster than the unit they are fighting.

3. Royal knights, and a few other units (eg. Ghulam Bodyguards) undergo a makeover every time the age changes. I think this is to ensure they are still useful units later in the game, without being too overpowered early on. The little picture at the bottom of the screen will tell you what age they are from, as this changes too. Only knights from the current age can be retrained. Save all those old part units of knights to beef up your aging generals' units later, otherwise you'll end up with lots of size one general units.

Hope this helps... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ryttare]

1. They are absolutely no extra cover against arrows. You should not use Large shield units to suck up the arrows since thoose units are often 100 men strong, meaning more targets to hit and kill.

2. Doubble click and they will break out, but alot of em will get slain in the attempt and perhaps even route because the enemy will end up behind them.

3. See previous speaker/writer.

[Gregoshi]

W3lcom3 to th3 Org and b3yond mav3rick. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif If I w3r3 in your sho3s and want3d to r3tr3at from battl3, I'd us3 th3 withdraw command, control-W I b3li3ve. I'v3 n3v3r actually had to do this sinc3 my m3n start running b3for3 I hav3 a chanc3 hit control-W.

[Asmodeus]

Use Control + W to withdraw units from combat. They will withdrawl at top speed until they leave the map (so give them new orders if you dont want them to leave just yet). This is the best way to send archers away when they run out of ammo.


Doh Gregoshi beat me to it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[The_Emperor]

Royal Knights from Previous Eras can be retrained but only if you have the patch installed.

I know this work because I upgraded my heirs and Royal Blood Generals to High period Knights from Early.

[SmokWawelski]

1. They are absolutely no extra cover against arrows. You should not use Large shield units to suck up the arrows since thoose units are often 100 men strong, meaning more targets to hit and kill.

Are you sure on that ??? Why are there the pavise arbs and Xbows then? Isn't it to shield them FROM ARROWS ??

[Nowake]

He was refering to the spearmen ... and he was right, as they have to keep a tight formation, 4-5 ranks deep, so they are easy targets. The Pavise, on the other hand, are deploying in a formation of max. 3 ranks deep in oeder to be efficient, so you can see the difference.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ May 06 2003,09:12)]1. They are absolutely no extra cover against arrows. You should not use Large shield units to suck up the arrows since thoose units are often 100 men strong, meaning more targets to hit and kill.

Are you sure on that ??? Why are there the pavise arbs and Xbows then? Isn't it to shield them FROM ARROWS ??
That's a pavise, not a large shield.

[Nowake]

lol, indeed ... it is used in a different way ...

[Rakthar]

Shields are an armor bonus when your troops are facing the enemy. It means that if you get attacked from the side or back, it's basically not there, unlike most armors.

Or to say again:

If you just have a high armor rating, it doesn't matter which side you get hit on. It's still bad to get hit from the side/back but it doesn't reduce your armor rating.

If you have a high armor rating because of the inclusion of large shield, then your men die that much faster when you get hit from the side/back.

As for the Pavise, that's different from the large shield as stated above. Pavise arbalesters are amusing but I generally stick to Arbalesters - the added flexibility is worth it to me.

[mav3rick]

Hi ppl http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Thanks for all your replies. All your replies were most helpful. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Have tried the Withdraw command. Hey it works.. but my units get routed halfway through http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Is it possible to feign a retreat to pull the enemy into a trap like what the moguls did in real life??

Its a little sad for me to discover this superb game after so long. Nevertheless, its still not too late. I really enjoy playing this game. And i'm enjoying it more now with the help from you guys. Thanks again.

[Elwe]

Just wait until the Viking Invasion expansion improves it even more at the end of the week..

Not sad that you have only just come to the game. You have that much more time in the future to devote to it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Herodotus]

There are much better ways to pull your men out of a fray than the withdrawal button which most often ends in disaster. Firstly I think the key is not letting your men drive too deeply into the fray in the first place. Knights get an excellent charge bonus so unless they are hacking through archers or peasants you should pull them out after the initial charge and then charge again. To pull them out I stretch out the unit precicely where I want it and then tell them to run there (Ctrl-R). Double clicking doesn't seem to be as effective as they are more likely to start fights along the way. Knights are the easiest units to pull out because of their strength but it is possible to do the same with other units. Often though you need to use some cavalry to do a short charge as a diversion (particularly if the units are slower than their pursuers). One last note about the knights, I have noticed that you can get favourable exchanges even against spear units (front on) as long as you pull out straight after the charge (helps if you are uphill or working in unison with another unit of knights).