typically American [Archive]

lookbeyond23

05-09-2003, 20:46

I don't consider myself American in the sense but I really got halt you here.

Why on EARTH is your teaching (or you) assigning (picking) to do somthing about Americans. Granted, I can understand the war but what class could POSSIBLY teach somthing by attempting to dissern things that are 'typically American' (implying negativity) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Personally, I find it just plain rude/offensive that anyone would do such a thing to another COUNTRY. I don't go around insulting whole countries and their peoples and attempt to sterotype them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Have you ever been to America? It's a good place. Americans have nothing wrong with them. A countries decisions arn't made by the people in the country, they're made by the legislature or ruler. You shouldn't blame the Iraqi people for Kuwait and you really can't blame Americans for the decision of their politicians. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

RisingSun

05-09-2003, 21:26

Tell your teacher we are backwards and ignorant people, who are out to forge an empire. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

But come on, you never stereotype? Bull. I run around making fun of the French, Canadians, and basically anyone else who i feel like. Let them make fun of me, i dont care. I do it with a light heart, and hope they do, too. And if they dont, we'll just invade. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Dîn-Heru

05-09-2003, 21:27

I originally posted this in the tavern. This is the reply that I made to those who found this task to be strange. As I have stated below it is not intented to have a negative assosiation (sp?), and there is no chance in hell that I am going to deliver anything negative about Americans. So any replies containing anything severly negative about america will simply be ignored. The task is simply to name what you find to be American, items concepts and so on. Nothing sinister.

If you would like to, you can read this topic in the tavern.

from the tavern:

Quote (Kongamato @ Jacque Schtrapp and LeeJackson ,May 08 2003,17:31)
I would enjoy knowing the purpose of this assignment.

I'm even more curious what class would call for such an assignment.

Sounds like an odd topic. I never had an assignment like that, i.e. give an account of what you think is a typical Norwegian, English, Chinese, etc...

Can I ask what the assignment is trying to accomplish?

It is only a practice task to help prepear us for a possible english exam. It is only ment as an easy task, so that the student can write about something they know of.
My problem is that I don't know what I find to be typically American, so I thought that I would ask the question here in order to get some ideas.

The only thing I had before I posted was, big cars (ie an increased sale in cars like hummer 2 etc), Hollywood and skyscrapers. ( the two latter suggestions from my teacher to other students )

To Jauque: It is in my english class, second year of high-school. What this class mainly does is to give a brief introduction to American and British society . Meaning that we are supposed to be able to some extent to discuss various aspects of these things. Basically present ourselves as intelligent members of the world, even if what we(ie I) write is complete rubbish. ( this is my impression of it anyway)

To LeeJackson: The only thing this is trying to accomplish, is to give us writing practice for the upcoming exam. ( and possibly, not giving us an excuse for saying that our teacher didn't to anything to prepear us. He is kinda lazy, great guy though ) But it is not ment to critisize, you are only supposed to name what you find to be American, items concepts and so on.

This assignment is supposed to be handed in on monday ( will have to deliver it on tuesday, due to a history field trip on monday) and it actually consist of two task. The other task is:

The US has seen a change of notion of herself from being looked upon as a melting pot to being a salad bowl. Explain what is meant by these concepts and the change involved and discuss to what extent the American Dream is still alive.

In total these task are supposed to be around 300 words.

Shahed

05-09-2003, 21:31

You cannot blame anyone as such, however...

People vote ?

If so those people are responsible for the actions of their rulers.

Even if a nation do not have an elected leader the people are untimately responsible for the actions of their government. If the people of a nation do not take an active part in the politics of their state they are more responsible than anyone else.

It's a similar argument to those who import illegal goods and when caught plead not guilty. The argument does not hold weight due to Nul n'est sense ignorer la loi (sorry for grammar). None are allowed the liberty to be ignorant of the law.

It's the responsibility of the citizens to ensure they have a government that takes actions representative of their views.

Stereotyping another nation never helps very much, except right wing, conservatives. Considering the progress made by the American media in stereotyping Arabs and Muslims in the past 35 years, it's no surprise that other news media are attempting to tag the same cloak over America.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shahed

05-09-2003, 21:34

Dîn-Heru I reckon this can only be correctly answered by Americans, although I saw a German post in Tavern whihc was very good.

Dîn-Heru

05-09-2003, 21:38

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ May 09 2003,21:34)]Dîn-Heru I reckon this can only be correctly answered by Americans, although I saw a German post in Tavern whihc was very good.
Yes, I know. I am definetly going to use some of it.

Blackball

05-10-2003, 10:00

What's most typically American is the American Dream. I think being a relatively new nation on the world scene, one that has always been against the rest of the world (or at least thought of itself as being against the world, going its own way, forging its own path) has led most Americans to believe very much in the American Dream, the idea that they can pull themselves up by the bootstraps and achieve what they wish to achieve. We don't think in limits; we love to hear something's impossible, 'cause that inspires us to prove otherwise. Independence is typically American; America has an attitude that's unmatched anywhere else in the world, and most of it springs from a long-standing history of independence.

Fragony

05-10-2003, 10:35

Bomb stuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Dîn-Heru

05-10-2003, 11:08

The article has now been posted in the tavern.

Portuguese Rebel

05-10-2003, 12:42

Cowboy hats, Colt 45, fixation on their flag, Coca-cola, Mc'Donalds, Microsoft (also known as Micro****), they all want to get rich fast... hmmm, did i left something non-negative out?

What's wrong with this assingment? You guys presume the teacher wants something negative to come out of it... why is that? are you felling guilty or something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Portuguese Rebel

05-10-2003, 12:49

Quote[/b] (Blackball @ May 10 2003,04:00)]Independence is typically American;
Funny, my country is indepent since 1213... I never thought of it as being a typically American kind of thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I forgot an important typically American thing... Most of them believe they are the Land of Freedom, in a sense that the rest of the world is not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Im sorry dudes but a country with censored CD covers don't come high on my Freedom list... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Fragony

05-10-2003, 14:17

That censorship I never understood, example... while softporn is common on european tv, an exposed breast is enough for a PG rating over there. Yet american tv series, like Xena and Hercules are extremely violent. In hercules I saw a guy slowly getting impaled by a stick 30 centimeters wide. Totally unsuitable for little children IMO, much worse then showing some nude. I wouldn't mind my kids watching softporn really, I regard it as healthy curiosity, but showing violence can be damaging.

BDC

05-10-2003, 14:29

Typical American: Hard-working, very polite, sticks to the rules almost exclusively, very Christian, somewhat ignorant of the rest of the world.

RisingSun

05-10-2003, 15:16

I think BDC is a little out of it to believe Americans are all like that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Blackball

05-10-2003, 18:57

For some reason our (American) culture thinks sex is worse than violence. Keep in mind that we were settled initially by the Puritans in some places, however, so you never know how much that carried through to today. I think it's a bit wacky, but then again, at least we're not squeamish.

Oh, and to whoever said their country has been independent since 1293 or whatever...that's not what I meant. I meant that our people, by and large, believe they can make whatever they want of themselves, don't really believe in limits on their potential, and that reflects itself in our country overall. We tend to not care what the rest of the world thinks of us, 'cause we like going our own way. And think what you want about us being the land of freedom or not...there's a reason we receive more immigrants than any other nation in the world.

I think BDC's a bit off. Very Christian doesn't describe America at all. That would be a minority, a minority with a big voice, but a minority all the same.

But yes, a lot of Americans are fairly ignorant about the rest of the world, and that's the one thing I'd like to change about my country. Perhaps it is arrogance, but most Americans really can get by without needing to know where Luxembourg is or who the Basques are or any of that stuff. I think the rest of the world has far less of an impact on America than America has on the rest of the world.

oblivious maximus

05-10-2003, 21:37

yeah, pretty much agree with Blackball.

BDC

05-10-2003, 22:09

Quote[/b] (Blackball @ May 10 2003,18:57)]For some reason our (American) culture thinks sex is worse than violence. Keep in mind that we were settled initially by the Puritans in some places, however, so you never know how much that carried through to today. I think it's a bit wacky, but then again, at least we're not squeamish.

Oh, and to whoever said their country has been independent since 1293 or whatever...that's not what I meant. I meant that our people, by and large, believe they can make whatever they want of themselves, don't really believe in limits on their potential, and that reflects itself in our country overall. We tend to not care what the rest of the world thinks of us, 'cause we like going our own way. And think what you want about us being the land of freedom or not...there's a reason we receive more immigrants than any other nation in the world.

I think BDC's a bit off. Very Christian doesn't describe America at all. That would be a minority, a minority with a big voice, but a minority all the same.

But yes, a lot of Americans are fairly ignorant about the rest of the world, and that's the one thing I'd like to change about my country. Perhaps it is arrogance, but most Americans really can get by without needing to know where Luxembourg is or who the Basques are or any of that stuff. I think the rest of the world has far less of an impact on America than America has on the rest of the world.
Sorry, some bits of America (with loud voices) are like that I guess. Anyway the impression you get here is that.

It is perfectly fine to be mildly ignorant of the rest of the world if you're powerful enough to, it is just a bit wierd when apparently in a survey most Americas though the Gulf was actually in the Baltic.

Just in case, I am not trying to insult anyone I hate most the people I have to share a country with hugely, and their utter stupidity will drive me to leave at some point. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Crazed Rabbit

05-10-2003, 23:03

Typical American
Interesting topic, though I would have thought that an odd assignment for students in Norway.

There's just so many different kinds of people in America that'd I think it'd be awfully hard to describe a Typical American. In that manner, America is much more of a 'salad bowl' than a 'melting pot'nowadays. Instead of being assimilated by America, immigrants today are keeping their culture and traditions, which, I think, is a good thing. To describe American culture, I believe a Canterbury Tales style group of people would be better.

Anyways, good luck with your assignment, 300 words doesn't sound too bad (unless Norwegian (sorry if I spelled that wrong) words are really long).

-Crazed Rabbit

P.S.
I don't arrogance is the reason so many Americans are ignorant of the world. I think its just the fact that they don't have to worry about the rest of the world. How are Basques going to affect them, they think (if they bother to find out who Basques are). One reason for this is that American public education (at least in NW Washington) in the field of history and geography sucks. I've learned nothing so far from my High School US History class I didn't already know. That said, I do know more history than the average student, simply because I find it interesting to read about.

Portuguese Rebel

05-10-2003, 23:49

Quote[/b] (Blackball @ May 10 2003,12:57)] And think what you want about us being the land of freedom or not...there's a reason we receive more immigrants than any other nation in the world.
And that reason sure isn't freedom. It's money...to put it simple... all those mexicans crossing the border are looking for money, that's all, because freedom they will not get much, since their bosses will treat them like dirt and exploit the most of them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Longshanks

05-11-2003, 00:24

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ May 10 2003,17:49)]
Quote[/b] (Blackball @ May 10 2003,12:57)] And think what you want about us being the land of freedom or not...there's a reason we receive more immigrants than any other nation in the world.
And that reason sure isn't freedom. It's money...to put it simple... all those mexicans crossing the border are looking for money, that's all, because freedom they will not get much, since their bosses will treat them like dirt and exploit the most of them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
People come to the U.S. for a myriad of reasons Portuguese, and yes people still come here for freedom. In Philadelphia where I live, there was a wave of Albanian immigration when Milosevic's thugs were oppressing them in Kosovo. We also have plenty of Russians and Ukrainians who fled here in the 70s and 80s to escape an oppressive regime at home. Go to Miami and you'll find plenty of Cubans who came here to escape Castro and his regime.

Have you ever even been to the U.S. portuguese?

Major Robert Dump

05-11-2003, 14:51

hehe Port....and the bosses in Mexico treat them soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better......

hispanics are the largest minority in the USA. We must be doing something they like.

Dîn-Heru

05-11-2003, 17:12

Quote[/b] (Crazed Rabbit @ May 10 2003,23:03)]Typical American
Interesting topic, though I would have thought that an odd assignment for students in Norway.

TAnyways, good luck with your assignment, 300 words doesn't sound too bad (unless Norwegian (sorry if I spelled that wrong) words are really long).
This is an assigment in my English class, as I said above, so it is not written in Norwegian ( you spelled it correctly by the way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif), this is also why this is not an odd subject, as Blackball said: I think the rest of the world has far less of an impact on America than America has on the rest of the world. :

It is in my english class, second year of high-school. What this class mainly does is to give a brief introduction to American and British society . Meaning that we are supposed to be able to some extent to discuss various aspects of these things.

300 words is not bad, but I ended up with 400 something words, in the first task. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Portuguese Rebel

05-12-2003, 14:05

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ May 10 2003,18:24)]Have you ever even been to the U.S. portuguese?
Have you ever been to Cuba? i think you would be surprised... Some of you guys don't see behyond the propaganda do ya? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I wasn't saying that the U.S was the worst country of all or something... Don't get me wrong, it is still miles away from many countrys, that is for sure...

I'm just stating that it isn't in the top of my freedom list, sorry...

About going to the US... Never been there, but must someone go there to enjoy the good and downs of your culture? It is quite everywere these days, and i even have access to your TV channels, so... im informed about events in the US. Don't have plans to go there either, the US just don't have enough historical interest to be in the top of my priorities. Maybe after Egypt, Greece, Italy, Scotland, China, Russia and some others i'll go to the US, when im about 80 yrs old http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

By then you should have more to see, just hope it isn't a radioactive tundra yet... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

And Major Dump, i don't like to see people treated like dirt, and if someone claims to be a better man/culture one should act like it...

Longshanks

05-14-2003, 10:59

Quote[/b] ]Have you ever been to Cuba? i think you would be surprised... Some of you guys don't see behyond the propaganda do ya? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

No, but one does not have to go to Cuba to get an idea on why so many Cubans emigrated to the United States. The 1st generation Cuban population in South Florida is large, and in their communities you will find that Castro and his regime are universally despised.

Quote[/b] ] About going to the US... Never been there, but must someone go there to enjoy the good and downs of your culture? It is quite everywere these days, and i even have access to your TV channels, so... im informed about events in the US.

TV is never a good source to understand any people completely. Forget what you see in the movies churned out by Hollywood, and remember that what you see on the news isn't the entire story. That just doesn't apply to the U.S., but any nation.

Quote[/b] ] And Major Dump, i don't like to see people treated like dirt, and if someone claims to be a better man/culture one should act like it...

Legal Immigrants aren't treated like dirt here. They have every oppurtunity that any other American has. When I was in High School I worked at a food distribution company that was owned by a Greek who had become an American citizen. He came here dirt poor with literally not much else besides the clothes on his back, and started off selling fruit from a cart. He eventually built that into a multi-million dollar food distribution business which was the largest distributor in the Philadelphia area. The sky is the limit for any immigrant that arrives here legally, just as it is for any other American.

The same of course isn't true for illegal immigrants. Obviously being here illegally they don't have many oppurtunities, and are sometimes taken advantage of. While I do pity them, it is important to remember that they entered the country illegally.

pow902

05-14-2003, 12:04

I hope you are aware that a lot of the first and biggest immigration waves of cubans came from the ranks of the far-right who decided that they would move to the states to continue the fight against the communists and the people. Not exactly unbiased people. Castro aint no saint but he aint no devil either.

Longshanks

05-14-2003, 14:19

Quote[/b] (pow902 @ May 14 2003,06:04)]Castro aint no saint but he aint no devil either.
Tell that to the countless families who have loved ones serving life sentences for expressing dissent with the regime. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

BDC

05-14-2003, 16:04

Cuba does however have a very good education system and an ok health one. Lots of the bad stuff in Cuba could be blamed on the USA. Still any Communist regime has all the mysterious assassinations stuff attached to it.

Portuguese Rebel

05-14-2003, 16:13

TV ain't the main source of information about americans, i've spoken to hundreds (thousands??) of americans online, and i have a pretty good idea of you guys. Probably a lot better idea than the one you have on other countrys/cultures.

Cuba has about 200 political prisioneers, a very low criminal rate, every1 has a house (their house, not rented or anything), the people have an incredible high level of education (really you should try to speak to cubans and see for yourself).
And they acheived this during an american blokade (some decades now).

The bad part is, of course, the political prisoners. But i ask you this: How many americans are locked up in jails because they never really had a chance in life. America has about 1 million of its people locked up right now. How about houses? Aren't there people living in trailer parks (is that all TV?), eating from garbage cans? How about education (don't get me start here, im a teacher, i can go a long way)?

And a legal emigrant has the same opportunitys has any american? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif You can't be serious, a poor american does not have the same opportunity as a rich american, it is a statistical fact dude. You can say that this or that guy had success, but how many didn't? The way of capitalism is not the way of equality, no matter how many times the TV says it is...

About the 1st generation Cuban population you are talking about... Are you sure you know who they are? Do you not know that Fidel overthrown another dictator? This was a pro-american dictator (just another one...) and this is why american goverments don't like fidel (now if he was a pro-american it would be ok...). The dictator's boys all fled Cuba... guess where to? That's right... America. Cuba was alright for many of this guys when they runned things their way (executing the opposition) but now they are all wrong?What has changed? The boys are different, that's it. Would Cubans be better with a pro-american dictator? People in Colombia (the south american country) seem to disagree...

I'm not saying Fidel's goverment is paradise, because it sure isn't. Im just saying that things are not black and white. Just remember another tipically american thing. As a rule, they tend to extrems, black and white, evil and good, wich leads them many times to situations when there is the people who agrees with them (the good) and people who disagrees (the evil).

Furthermore dude, in a country where 12 yrs old kids can be judged like adults, practice the death penalty, have censorship on the media and, in some states, a teacher can't teach propper science classes, you have to have all the outside windows pretty much closed to believe that it's all ok.
I think many of this problems are explained by the fact that americans never lived under a dictatorial regime, so they can't understand when they are being deprived of their freedom or not, since they take democracy, and freedom, for granted, as this too words are used to define the US themselves.

Portuguese Rebel

05-14-2003, 16:19

PS. forgot to say that im not a communist, since americans tend to accuse people who do not agree with capitalism of being one... Im still a left wing person, and that doesn't make me a communist either, although i know this is hard to understand for some americans which, as it seems only have 2 strong partys, one of extreme right (republicans) and the other of moderate right (democrats).

Longshanks

05-14-2003, 18:55

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ May 14 2003,10:13)]

Quote[/b] ]Probably a lot better idea than the one you have on other countrys/cultures.

Don't assume. While I won't pretend to be an expert on every country/culture around the globe, I have travelled to more countries than most Europeans. I also lived overseas(Japan) before.

Quote[/b] ] But i ask you this: How many americans are locked up in jails because they never really had a chance in life. America has about 1 million of its people locked up right now.

And none of them are political prisoners. Rapists, murderers, drug-dealers ect belong behind bars. They had a chance, just like I did. They chose a life of crime and are reaping what they have sown.

Quote[/b] ] How about houses? Aren't there people living in trailer parks, eating from garbage cans?

That is a small minority of the population. I have never seen a trailer park in my life(other than on TV), and the only people I see eating out of garbage cans here in the city are insane.(they refuse medical treatment)

Quote[/b] ]And a legal emigrant has the same opportunitys has any american? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif You can't be serious, a poor american does not have the same opportunity as a rich american, it is a statistical fact dude.You can say that this or that guy had success, but how many didn't? The way of capitalism is not the way of equality, no matter how many times the TV says it is...

I grew up in Kensington, which is a slum in Philadelphia. I worked my way out of that neighborhood. Don't lecture me on lack of oppurtunities here. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote[/b] ] About the 1st generation Cuban population you are talking about... Are you sure you know who they are? Do you not know that Fidel overthrown another dictator? This was a pro-american dictator (just another one...) and this is why american goverments don't like fidel (now if he was a pro-american it would be ok...). The dictator's boys all fled Cuba... guess where to? That's right... America.

There are many more 1st generation Cuban immigrants here than just those that fled during the Communist revolution. Cuban immigrants arrive here on a fairly regular basis.

Portuguese Rebel

05-14-2003, 21:24

Are you sure they had the same chances you had? who you are you to judge that?
And if a minority of the population lifes in trailer parks that is acceptable? This is a fundamental issue between left and right politics. Right looks at averages, left look at people.
You lived in a slum? And that was fine huh? thats why you couldn't wait to get out...
A cuban might just say political prisoners are just a small minority of the population... Does this make it ok to have political prisoners? Of course not.
It is also a common thing to think that that guy eating out of a garbage can is insane. Did you bother to talk to one? Maybe not...
Also, there are americans in Portugal too, who are they running from? The communist american regime? No, of course not...
Don't presume that any cuban emigrant is running from the regime. That is media fantasy/propaganda. Most of them just want to get rich, thats all. Something a communist regime does not allow. This is one of the reasons communism (in its pure form) cannot work. There will allways be people that want more than their neighbour has.
But a funny thought, if the american goverments did not bother with Cuba, maybe Fidel wouldn't be it's dictator anymore. The cuban regime holds because of the external threat (the US). People are afraid so they put up with the semi-militaristic regime. I got this idea from a conversation i had with a couple cubans. They both said that they did not enjoy living under the communist yoke but they were AFRAID that the US would just overrun them if they showed any sign of weakness.

Given the external signs that the US has been showing the world, can you really blame them? They belong to the Axis of evil according to the american ayatolla...

Major Robert Dump

05-14-2003, 21:48

What are people's deals with trailer parks? LOL

I don't live in one, but there are some around here that are nicer than the nice neighborhood I live in. Of course there are slummy ones, too, but all jokes aside about trailer trash some of these things are really nice, and professionals who make lots of money live in them for many reasons.... Yet another misconception by people who have no idea.

MrNiceGuy

05-14-2003, 22:05

Living in California and wishing to acquire my first piece of property I've abandoned the idea of a 'fixer-upper'. Even a small (900sqft or so) one in a decent neighboorhood is in the $250k range and anything in the size I'm currently leasing is in the $400k range. So my GF and I are looking at a nice mobile home that's in a good park with this floorplan Floorplan (http://www.mh-quote.com/FindHome/FloorPlan.asp?Model_ID=194&offsetSearchResults=40) and it's only $150k, easily in our range. Add to that the lot fee is only 1/3 of what the taxes on 'permanent home' in the area. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I like Chomsky's bit on 'Anti-americanism'(as applied to american citizens mainly), not that I'm a bleeding heart, but he points out that such a concept is absurd.

The only thing typical about Americans is that they love to decry the state of things while at the same time doing nothing to help change the state of said situation... Kitty Genovese anyone?

squippy

05-15-2003, 10:02

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ May 14 2003,12:55)]

Quote[/b] ]Probably a lot better idea than the one you have on other countrys/cultures.

Don't assume. While I won't pretend to be an expert on every country/culture around the globe, I have travelled to more countries than most Europeans. I also lived overseas(Japan) before.

Quote[/b] ] But i ask you this: How many americans are locked up in jails because they never really had a chance in life. America has about 1 million of its people locked up right now.

And none of them are political prisoners. Rapists, murderers, drug-dealers ect belong behind bars. They had a chance, just like I did. They chose a life of crime and are reaping what they have sown.

Quote[/b] ] How about houses? Aren't there people living in trailer parks, eating from garbage cans?

That is a small minority of the population. I have never seen a trailer park in my life(other than on TV), and the only people I see eating out of garbage cans here in the city are insane.(they refuse medical treatment)

Quote[/b] ]And a legal emigrant has the same opportunitys has any american? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif You can't be serious, a poor american does not have the same opportunity as a rich american, it is a statistical fact dude.You can say that this or that guy had success, but how many didn't? The way of capitalism is not the way of equality, no matter how many times the TV says it is...

I grew up in Kensington, which is a slum in Philadelphia. I worked my way out of that neighborhood. Don't lecture me on lack of oppurtunities here. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote[/b] ] About the 1st generation Cuban population you are talking about... Are you sure you know who they are? Do you not know that Fidel overthrown another dictator? This was a pro-american dictator (just another one...) and this is why american goverments don't like fidel (now if he was a pro-american it would be ok...). The dictator's boys all fled Cuba... guess where to? That's right... America.

There are many more 1st generation Cuban immigrants here than just those that fled during the Communist revolution. Cuban immigrants arrive here on a fairly regular basis.
99% of this hostility to Cuba is just American rhetoric, becuase its suits the political classes to have some artificial devil-onna-stick they can wave to the public. American persecution of Cuba is one of the 20th Century's principle crimes.

Cuba aint wonderland, but consider that the US has a MUCH higher proportion of its population in prison, also has political prisoners, has substantially inferior helath care to Cuba etc etc... really, Cuba's survival and floursihing are a good example of resistance to American imperialism.

quote:
And none of them are political prisoners.

Totally untrue, just look up Mummia Abu Jamal, although now released. Those prisoners in Gauntanamo Bay are certainly political. It is still illegal in Illinois to transport Communist material; and in the new climate of Homeland Security there will soon be many more; a recent display of art thought to be critical of Sept 11th has already been investigated by the FBI and the Secret Servbice on the basis of suspected Anti-American activities. This is, after all, the nation that brought us McCarthyism and believes that democracy can be imposed by the bomb.

squippy

05-15-2003, 10:04

gah, didn;t mean to post so much, didn;t realise it would copy the whole message.

Portuguese Rebel

05-15-2003, 12:28

Quote[/b] (Major Robert Dump @ May 14 2003,15:48)]What are people's deals with trailer parks? LOL

I don't live in one, but there are some around here that are nicer than the nice neighborhood I live in. Of course there are slummy ones, too, but all jokes aside about trailer trash some of these things are really nice, and professionals who make lots of money live in them for many reasons.... Yet another misconception by people who have no idea.
Major, im obviously not refering to people thatlive in trailer by choice. Some trailer may be wonderfull, i i would even live in some of them. I have chosen trailers as a banner for what i mean. If you would like, insert slum house instead of trailer. The effect should be the same.

Squippy, i think you might get flammed by that guantanamo thingy you posted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Remember, for some americans, all talibans are terrorists, responsible for the twin towers disaster.
Horrible thing 9/11. And it gave bush the reason to beguin attacking everyone. Although i would like to see it better explained. The matter seems fishy alright, it appears that there is at least some relunctance to do profound investigations. And i can't understand why unless there is some serious stuff to hide. I can remember that Bin Laden was a CIA agent, and, even after he was classified a terrorist, he received medical treatment in a US militar hospital in an arabe country (that hospital was a CIA hospital). I would like to see them explain that. There is also the question about the pentagon... i mean, there is a bunch of reasons to believe that no plain crashed there. It seems that the building might have been atacked by a truck loaded with explosives. This last one i can even understand. They probably shot down the plane and to keep things from getting too messy, with the victims familys anoying them and asking big money for it... They just said the third plane crashed into the pentagon.

Im pretty much skeptical about a building like the pentagon being rammed by a plain. It make no sence, is it that easy to hit the pentagon by air? i can't believe it.

Portuguese Rebel

05-15-2003, 12:39

Forgot to say how much i appreciate the fact that there is freedom of speech on the .org.
Apparently this is a rare thing these days. In the last few weels i've been to a Master of Orion 3 forum. In there i stated some of the things i did not like about the game, and there were a lot of those. First they made me post in a single thread, because they had this thread already made for people like me who felt their expectations about the game have been betrayed. If someone stated a less favourable thing about the game in another thread they would close the thread or delete your post.

I criticized this, and said that the moderators of the forum were acting like little kids with power trips (wich they were). The little bastards edited my post, to make it less offensive, they said. Basically they edited all the stuff about them of it.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Im just glad MTW does not need that kind of defense from moderators of MTW forums. It really is a very bad sign when a game needs it. I was so disapointed, i loved MOO1 and MOO2. MOO3 is complete trash (just glad i can say it right in the open here).

Thanks Moderator dudes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

MrNiceGuy

05-15-2003, 13:57

More freedom of speech http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif it always a good thing...

In response to P.R. -

I have chosen trailers as a banner for what i mean. If you would like, insert slum house instead of trailer. The effect should be the same.

This the problem you'll encounter when you try to generalize a class of people, you'll either get the reaction here (focusing on how your generalization is misinformed) or it becomes too broad and no longer covers what you intended it to be in the first place. I interpret your decision to use the 'trailer park' and 'slum house' label as 'americans who enjoy living below the poverty line due to insufficient education'.

Remember, for some americans, all talibans are terrorists...

This reminds me of my favorite media saying 'Experts agree - everything is fine'. For some americans the government (U.S.) are terrorists, for others all people who appear to be of Syriac descent are islamic fanatics. Again, as a generalization, this statement is overly broad and should be pointed out that the 'Taliban' and 'Al-Qaeda' were two seperate organizations who found it more productive to work together in Afghanistan. Both organizations survive visibly outside the centers of populated Afghanistan and throughout most of the Islamic world.

And it gave bush the reason to beguin attacking everyone.

If there was no 9/11 george jr. and the hawks would have found one, or if popularity was high enough then just did it anyways. In a world of diminshing resources and increasing population it is not only important to control the resources themselves, but the distribution thereof as well. There will be more such incidents and the 'Hunt for Al-Qaeda'™ is a wonderful pretext to go anywhere and force a 'pax americana'.

Although i would like to see it better explained. The matter seems fishy alright, it appears that there is at least some relunctance to do profound investigations. And i can't understand why unless there is some serious stuff to hide.
There is also the question about the pentagon... i mean, there is a bunch of reasons to believe that no plain crashed there.

Conspiracy theories about 9/11 abound in scope and detail. The only thing I'm certain of is that we'll never know the full truth of what happened nor why.

Gregoshi

05-15-2003, 14:17

With regards to freedom of speech here at the Org, as long as it stays civil, this discussion can continue.

Personally, I'm very disappointed that discussion regarding a nice student writing project about what is typically American has turned into yet another I'm okay and you're not rehash between Americans and non-Americans. I'd love to see these types of discussions take a vacation for a few months. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

squippy

05-15-2003, 14:38

Well as an olive branch, here is a pretty comrehensive analysis of what constitutes American culture.

http://www.zompist.com/amercult.html

Portuguese Rebel

05-15-2003, 15:28

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ May 15 2003,08:17)]With regards to freedom of speech here at the Org, as long as it stays civil, this discussion can continue.
Thats what this is all about. We may disagree, but as long as there is no flamming people, poeple can have a fruitfull conversation.

About the i'm ok and you're not type of thing, you can expect it for years to come http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

As for this conversation i wont continue it (as long as someone doesn't flame me or personally atack me). I have spoken my mind and i think my position is clear.

Too bad the typically american that comes t my mind isn't as good as i would like it, but america sure has some thing going that are really good. I wished they stopped paying attention to those bible pushers... Gee, a guy can't even teach evolution in his bio class http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif in some places, without having those dudes on their back annoying him to death.
I have a friend who is a teacher in Kansas and he got some troubles over it... i tell ya, it was pretty messy. Lawsuit and all... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

MrNiceGuy

05-15-2003, 15:44

//Hands out olive branches and copies of I'm ok, you're ok

I forget how easy it is, Soly's title says, to derail threads.

Gregoshi

05-15-2003, 16:56

Rebel, from what I've read, everyone has conducted themselves very well and should be commended. I do realize that these types of discussions will go on for a long time to come if not forever. All I was wishing for was a few months off so we can all recharge our batteries for the next round. With the whole Iraq thing at the center of the storm, tensions have been high around here. This will happen from time to time but if it goes on for too long, well, it isn't a good thing. Fortunately everyone seems to be worn out and the release of VI has brought some much needed R&R to the forums.

Forums go through cycles. We are nearly through the serious phase and are getting into the fun phase as people get VI. Alas, next up is the disenchanted with the latest TW release phase which follows quickly after the fun phase. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Oh well, it is better than the boring (nothing to discuss) phase. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif