I hate that the WE/MI community is dead

[MajesticWolf]

This is wolf. i still cant get MTW to work on my computer..GAH
sigh....maybe i will try vikings or rome stop in to our majestic forums and say hi if you can.

-Wolf http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Kansuke]

Hi,

Well it ain't dead, its just smaller and timing is important when to play.


Kansuke.

[dragonchi]

DAm I'm annoyed I find it hard to catch people on STW when I feel like a game these days ....... and I have been reverting to Medievil out of total desperation for something to do ....... BUT THE GAME IS JUST SO CRAP ......I really find it insulting to play ...... now this is just my opinion and I dont care what you think of it. I find it really amazing that people play it over this .....I have been trying to get into but its just so ******.

Anyway ....

I ll pop onto shogun time to time to try and get a game in....but I think the time has come to try and find another game to entertain me ..... now this aint a good bye ..... or grasp for attention........I hope to see more of you all in the foyer.



In frustration http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif


Dragonchi

[Alrowan]

well i still play shoggy occasionaly, its a comfort for me while im yet to get VI

[Paolai]

Try VI Mist, it is a really nice game, beleive me. It remebers a lot STW

[Kocmoc]

i have to agree, VI changed a lot....finaly the archer hit something....

i like it much more as MTW.


koc

[RisingSun]

Don't get me wrong, I love Shoggy, but MTW is ten times better. so much more intricacy and strategy...

[RTKLamorak]

its amazing you would call it crap mist.. mabye you dislike it, or dont enjoy it but a crap game? compared to modern day releases.. hardly

im sure if you put the time into VI u'd enjoy it, and help get more numbers in the room. aaah welll up 2 u i guess ...

[Orda Khan]

Hmmm......I think VI is a definite improvement on MTW and that wasn't hard, I found MTW far less interesting than Shogun.

With an average of 40 to 50 online in VI foyer I can't see this theme gaining much more support. I think too many eyes are looking towards Rome http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Sadly, DragonChi, ( http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif ) when the Legions arrive the title 'Shogun Total War' will mean even less http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Regards to you and the other Australian Samurais

.........Orda

[Mori Zennousha]

well, i'm always the last to get into something cool, so it should come as no surprise that i just got my 1st copy of STW only a couple months ago, and i haven't played MTW at all...

However, i can say this much... since i've been in the STW community, i've heard about so many problems with MTW, as well as people feeling it was a "step back" from STW, that i doubt i will get it; rather, i think i'll go straight to Rome. The reviews i've read about RTW by people who like STW seem to indicate that it is more like the original and less like MTW... i can't say for sure, but the sentiment seems to be pretty consistent through the forums... So, no offense to the MTW crowd, but until it becomes VERY cheap, i'll probably bypass it altogether...

FWIW, STW:WE/MI is a fantastic game... let's hope the TW peeps hit a home run with RTW...

regards,
Z

[Magraev]

If you like the strategic side of things mtw is much much better than stw. The tactical battles are more diverse with far more different units. I understand that some purists prefer stw, but don't be fooled - mtw is by far the better game for the avg. player like me.

I just hope they release a patch for vi, until then I'd be carefull buying that - just go with 1.1.

[Kansuke]

Howl All,


Quote[/b] ]mtw is by far the better game for the avg. player like me

You hit the nail on the head, the average player now has chance of beating anyone, less skill, less fun, less work but pretty maps.

Kansuke.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Some people just hate to have their little world shaken up Imagine, having created a reputation in a given game to find out there is only a dozen people caring about it anymore.

Come on dudes, in what way is shogun so much better than mtw? I can only think about the fog (i really miss that) and the enviroment (if you like oriental style better, wich i don't).

[Mori Zennousha]

greetings all...

again, as i don't own MTW, anything i mention about it is purely second-hand knowledge...

given that, here are some specific complaints that i have heard/read... please correct me if i'm wrong, but:

1) you mention the lack of fog... my understanding is that fog is just the beginning of the weather changes... apparently, there are no real seasons; something llike every 4th battle in a year will be winter and *may* have snow (sound about right?) if this is true, that's a major step backwards, IMHO...

2) you also mentioned the oriental environment... besides not being set in Shogun Japan, does MTW have all the historical backgtround? one of the things i found amazing about STW was how closely the creators tried to follow historical names, places, and events to give the game an unprecedented level of authenticity... "The Way of the Daimyo" alone contains a couple hundred pages of background info... does MTW cover the same type of ground, only in the medievil european setting? i have heard that it does not, and again, if this is true, it is an unnecessary step backwards...

3) the general concensus i'm getting is that the game is easier; designed more for the newcomer to TW than to STW vets... from a marketing standpoint, this is probably a good thing... gamers that had never played STW surely had heard of it, and when the "new and improved" MTW came around, i'm sure it got a lot of attention just from STW's popularity... still, like a band that hits the "big time", there is always the risk of alienating the "faithful" when they feel things are being tailored more to the new crowd than to them...

i can't say it enough, i don't own, and have never played MTW, so take these comments with a grain of salt... perhaps people with more knowledge on the points expressed above can elaborate, and maybe even "clear the air" on some of this... all in all, though, my impression of MTW is that it sacrificed some of what makes STW so great in favor of asthetics and ease of use, and for that reason i haven't rushed out to get it; in fact, i'll probably wait 'til it's under $20.00 before i even think about trying it...

BTW, i'm hearing that RTW corrected some of these issues... anyone know?

so, there's some specifics... please, address them as you see fit; i'd really like to know what people think about some of these things... or if i'm totally off-base and mis-informed... either way, any enlightenment is better than none at all...

regards,
Z

[Portuguese Rebel]

You are partially right Mori. There are no seasons, the game develops in years, so the weather scope is more linked to the losation of the battle. In Africa you get deserts, In Iberian Peninsula and parts of asia you get arid enviroment in wich there can be rain, then you have the lushlands in central and north of Europe, with lots of rain. You can have snow if there is four battles in a year. This has been changed in VI. You get much more snow battles.

MTW could never have the amount of historical background of STW. Japan is a single country, and not particularly big or with that much historical diversity (hence the STW vanilla units). MTW's scope is Europe and the Mediterranium sea. How could they create a similar amount of backround. Also, for most people, the European history is more popular (more poeple know about it...), so there is not that much of a need to explain who was Joan D'Arc and its most emblematic figures. Japan's history is much more obscure to most westerns.

About the game being easier... Well i guess that after you owned STW, playing MTW will be "easier". It is only an illusion created by the fact that you are already in the system. MTW expands the system of STW. If you are new to TW, then you won't find MTW easier. The AI is better both in battle and strategic map.

Anyway, i would advise you guys to try out VI. Some of the MTW peeps have label it as a "beefed up STW rather than a condenced MTW". Give it a try, it really adds to MTW and there is a certain STW feel that i cannot really explain... Its just one of these things... Maybe its the strategic map, and the battle scenarios.

[Mori Zennousha]

Greetings, Portuguese Rebel, and thanks for the input... i have heard that VI is a big improvement for MTW, and yes, i've even heard it's more like STW than MTW was...

still, with all due respect given to your well thought-out responses, i don't see how MTW is as good, and certainly not better, than MTW...

i understand the deal with the weather, but honestly, do you think the weather set-up is as good as STW? if you do, you are definately the first i've come in contact with... put it this way, if you could have MTW with the same type of seasonal set-up that STW has, would you prefer it or not? most seem to think they would... i'm not saying it's all bad or anything, but why mess with a good thing? that's the part i don't get...

and, i'm sorry, but i have to completely disagree with your reasoning regarding the historical authenticity... for the very reasons you stated, MTW should have MORE historical background, not less... further, i don't think people know european history as well as you think; looked at any stats on college grads lately?... no, i'm certain that there is plenty of background out there had the creators sought it out, and the idea that "everyone already knows it" is simply rediculous... it is definately not an excuse for not putting as much effort into MTW as they did into STW, historically speaking...

as for ease of use, you make an excellent point... and really, the only way to test which is "easier" would be to do a scientific study, where you took, oh say 1000 people that have never played either game (or any RTS or turn-based game for that matter), gave 500 STW and 500 MTW, and let them go at it for a couple of weeks... then, based on pre-established parameters, check the percentages of success between the two games against one another... then, you'd have a pretty good idea of which was "easier", as long as the margin of error was significantly eclipsed... until that happens, no one can say without bias that one or the other is easier... so, clearly, that argument is flawed, and should be dropped from the debate; thanks for pointing that out...

OK, that's it for me... again, i differ on some of your views, but certainly respect your opinions; thanks for expressing them here...
Z

[Portuguese Rebel]

I hope im not giving out the idea that i don't like STW or anything. Hell, IMO STW is one (if not the one) of the greatest games ever made. MTW is a follow up. IMO a good follow up, but still a follow up.

I did like the weather better in STW. It is a given fact. But im thinking that they wanted to present 200 yrs or so of history, and to do it in STW style would lead to an insane number of turns. As it is one can still finish the game in 100 yrs, with seasons it could be done in 25 (??), assuming that no "turns to complete" would be changed.

About the knowlage of european history, hmmm... maybe im biased, since i'am an european of a country that came to existance in the MTW time frame. That is also probably why i like MTW's enviroment so much.

Overall im just happpy a TW series exist. Dam i've been waiting for something like this for at least a decade. STW or MTW is a matter of personal choice, whatever rings you bell. The good thing is that you don't even have to choose, you can play both, like i do.

[Kansuke]

Howl,

Mori well done and elloquently put.

Portugese rebel:


Quote[/b] ]Some people just hate to have their little world shaken up Imagine, having created a reputation in a given game to find out there is only a dozen people caring about it anymore.


is that what you think its about?

Well tell me your VI on-line name, I'm a noob at MTW/VI but I dont lose that many, but I'd like to see how you play against me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Kansuke.

[Mori Zennousha]

Doumoarigatou, Kansuke-san...

FWIW, i found that to be a little personal myself, but chose not to jump into that one... i've seen and read many of your posts; you certainly seem to have become quite knowledgeable of the STW world, and your opinions are always welcome... perhaps we will meet one day on the battlefield; it would be an honour, regardless of the outcome... 'til then, stay honourable...

take it easy,
Z

[Kansuke]

Howl Doumoarigatou,

I will be honoured to do battle with/against you, I will be on-line Sunday at around 7PM GMT.

Look forward to seeing you.

*Bows

Kansuke

[dragonchi]

so whats this VI ? if its an expansion pack and I have to fork out more $$$ to just make what I have already purchased playable then forget it.

If anybody wants to buy my copy of MTW for bargain price, or swaqp it for something else then let me know.

If you ask me, all the bickering latly is because you all havent had a decent battle since moving over to MTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ........frustration has set in.



Dragonchi

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Kansuke @ June 05 2003,07:27)]is that what you think its about?

Well tell me your VI on-line name, I'm a noob at MTW/VI but I dont lose that many, but I'd like to see how you play against me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Kansuke.
In what way did that phrase give the idea that i was bragging about my mp skills? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I don't mp STW or MTW. I find the mp aspect of the game quite unstable and therefore fustrating.
I've been a gamer for a long time now, and i've seen this kind of thing happen over and over again. Thats why people still play Warcraft 2, even when there are more modern and more complete RTS out there. some people get, like, glued to a game and can't let go. This is fine by me, im a steel panthers freak myself (playing it since Ms-Dos). Just because you like a game so much you don't have to dish on everything newer that comes along, just because you are angry that there is just a handfull of people playing your favourite game. Its gonna happen to MTW too, unless RTW becames a complete flop. And then there will be some guys that will say:

"i miss [insert something here], and the [insert something here] was so much better. I can't believe they left [insert something here] out. I'm going back to MTW..." and so on...

But when a community shrinks it can actually be a good thing. Less people means a more dedicated set of players (in average). This can be a problem if the community shrinks to the point of no return, i.e. virtually disapears.

And Kansuke, i have little doubt you could wipe the floor with me in mp http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
TW mp is not my thing...
Now if you want to get your carcass shot at in DoD (Day of Defeat, one of Half-life's mods), that would be cool. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

seriously now, i don't want to antogonize you guys or anything, just don't like when i see MTW get blamed and atacked for something that is only natural to happen... people just move on to different games. Or i would still be playing Match Day on my Sinclair spectrum computer (does give me sweet memories though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

Next time around i'll see if i can post some winter battles screenie for you to look at. In VI there is even dense fog in winter for you STW dudes

[Orda Khan]

VI is more like STW and that's STW not WE/MI in gamespeed...end of comparison. WE/MI was a backward step from STW, just like MTW was a backward step from WE/MI.
Why won't people go back? For the precise reason Portuguese Rebel gave.....they move on to the next game.

That being said it still doesn't alter the fact that MTW or VI will only ever be a shadow of the original and still the best....
Shogun Total War

....Orda

[Kansuke]

Agreed.....

[Sir Robin]

I do like STW.

It does have a more exotic feel than the more commonly known european history.

Still I prefer the diversity of units in MTW. While many are similar, those slight differences change the way you fight your battles.

Since I have been a fan of the Byzantine Empire since the mid-eighties, MTW will also hold a special place for me.

I actually have both STW and MTW on my hardrive and they have been there for months. Sometimes I am in the mood for MTW, sometimes STW.

I am not however an mp'er. The wife and kid rarely give me time to go online for battles.

My greatest hope is for RTW to be moddable enough so that Shogun and Medieval mods can be made.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ June 06 2003,17:26)]My greatest hope is for RTW to be moddable enough so that Shogun and Medieval mods can be made.
don't know about this dude. Those CA guys have a pretty funny idea of whats "modder friendly"... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ShinGaiJin]

Many things were lost when MTW took over,gone was the emphasis on honour-replaced by a weaker principle of medieval valour which hasnt quite replaced it in my view.The game foyer in MTW is more impersonal too.I never really went for all the honour points in STW but they stood for something,some good warriors worked hard for them,some didnt..but it added to the spice of the gameThe samurai based game just somehow works better for me and it is indeed a shame that its dying.
VI is a big improvement,Im playing that more often but reserve sundays for MI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Im always happy to get online if someone needs an opponent,just ask and I'll be there.
*bows
ShinGaiJin

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

I'm pretty sure VI could be modded to STW... atleast on the surface it looks do-able. But it would take about two years to do it by which time even RTW will be being replaced...

[Mori Zennousha]

Quote[/b] (Kansuke @ June 06 2003,07:04)]I will be honoured to do battle with/against you, I will be on-line Sunday at around 7PM GMT.

Look forward to seeing you.
Greetings, Kansuke-san...

regretably, i was out of town this past weekend, and missed the weekly sunday events; and it appears that will be the case again this coming sunday as well (leaving tomorrow for the Bonnaroo Music Festival, and won't be back 'til next monday)... but, once that's come and gone, i'll have a wide-open schedule for MP battles, so keep an eye out for me in the near future; after all this travelling, i'll be more than anxious to get into some MP action....

'til next time,
Z