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View Full Version : Making a Welsh Army that can stand up to foes



Damiel
05-15-2003, 17:14
First off, I'd like to say hello to all board members. I'm newly registered, though I've been reading these boards weekly since the STW, and have played all the games and expansions up until now. This series is great, and VI is superb.

I was a bit surprised that I can't post in the Main Hall, since that's primarily where I go to read. Hopefully I'll be able to soon enough http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

I played my first game as the vikings (of course) and found it to be a bit too easy for my taste. I don't think I left a single unit on my home provinces, and spend the entire time raiding the isles and eventually took over ireland, with the entire main island reduced to burning rubble (if I saw a nation building a port/fort/abbey I'd promptly devistate their entire kingdom, and then pull back out again, so I was the only nation with a tech tree.. got a little boring)

Now I'm playing the welsh, and having a great time. I've only lost a few battles, and won many more. I've capitalized on other nations rebellions and captured several good trading provinces, and I'm at the top of my tech tree in my capital, and have specialist provinces producing +armor +weapon +moral armored spearmen, and +moral Welsh Bandits, with a liberal mix of horsemen/bodyguards. I've got some high valor spys/assassin provinces. I've benifited from extended peace, and have yet to war with another faction other than the vikings (which i repelled in short order, they attacked me late) Now the saxons are defeated by the mercians, and my trade empire is at peak, and I need to expand to support more troops. I have my eyes on the entire southern half of the isles, all the way to the northumbrans, but inspite the fact that I've got highly trained/equiped/motivated armored spearmen and bandits, in a few choice armies (I'm still in the process of phasing out some of my older troop stacks) I'm having trouble against the superior foot soldiers the the mercians/vikings.

I was wondering if anyone out there has found an army combination for the welsh that particularily suits them? I've strayed from the celtic warriors, and have only one province that can produce my good armored/weapon armored spears, and only one that can produce bandits, but I'm assuming this combo (with horsemen to flank/chase) is the way to go. Is this the peak of my military?

On defense: I generally back up high on a hilltop and make a line of Armored spear units with a few units of bandits behind them, with the rest of the bandits hidden far infront of my main force on skirmish and also on the flanks. I generally hide my horses in any trees that are to the flanks as well, or keep a few of the units back next to my spearmen/general to burst out of the flanks to meet anyone trying to come in to me from the side. (celtic warriors/morespearmen might work better here) I'll thin the opposing army out with my forward ambushing bandits if there are no horses, or if there are, I'll generally throw a few vollies into their calvary as my own barrels down the hill towards theirs, or I'll just run up the hill and take position behind/just infront of the spearwall. (so they don't get run down by the horses) If there are no horses in the opposing army, i'll use my bandits ambushing to full effect, which usually means an easy win.

On offense: I'll march forward with a few units of bandits infront of the spearwall, and a few behind it, with horses running along the far sides of the map to sneak up their flank. Hills are the only problem here, in which case I'll lead with the spearmen on loose formation until the enemy charges, then I'll close and hold formation and hope to god they can hold out long enough to get the archers with my cav. In this case, my bandits are usually not of much use, as I havn't found the particularily robust in uphill fights, since they will get shot to pieces by enemy archers while trying to get in range, and once they are in range, they are fireing into my own line. So I generally try to run them around the sides for a flank (unless the enemy has horses).

Any suggestions?

Wheatley
05-15-2003, 21:09
I am also having the same problems. I just started a Welsh game, and I immediately attacked the Saxons because they had Peasants there. The only military related building I constructed was an Inn, because I didn't think the Saxons were going to invade and take the rest of present day Cornwall. A few turns later, the Saxons appear on my doorstep with an army of Huscarles, Fyrdmen etc. My Welsh army did not last very long in the battle, and I realized how extremely ineffective Celtic Warriors were. Another problem was the Berserkers from the Vikings. WOW. One unit charged at my 100 Celtic Warriors, and literally carved a path right to the back of the unit. I was AMAZED. I can't build Bandits yet, but I can't wait. After Armored Spearmen, bandits, and Royal Bodyguards, there isn't anything else(unless they didn't put it in MP).

The Blind King of Bohemia
05-15-2003, 22:31
Due to the Welsh lacking units i modded some units for them. Welsh Bowmen(Longbowmen),Welsh spearmen(Almughavers),Romano-British infantry(Chivalric Sergeants) and Romano-British Cavalry(Armenian Cavalry). It has really given them a chance to fight the Saxon factions on an offensive level.

Elwe
05-15-2003, 22:54
Welcome to the .Org, Damiel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

(I think Gregoshi's gonna kill me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif )

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Gregoshi
05-16-2003, 03:03
Hello Damiel. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif All I do is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif to new patrons around here and somehow I've gotten this nasty reputation. If this keeps up, new patrons will start having nervous breakdowns every time I http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif at them.

Gregoshi: Hello Mr New Patron http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Mr New Patron: Mommy I don't want to die http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Gregoshi: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Alrowan
05-16-2003, 04:44
i know what you mean by the lack of tougher units for the welsh, they are completely outclassed by huscarls even

Damiel
05-16-2003, 14:05
Hello all,

Yes Gregoshi, creepily enough, I'm aware of your little habit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I probably know most of you a little too well, considering I've never actually posted.

Blind King of Bohemia: I'm actually more interested in the unmodded units. Though I do enjoy a good modded game now and again.

On the topic of welsh armies: So I guess Armored Spearmen/Bandits really are the only things I'll have to rely on, other than bribery and mercs. That's fine, I'm quite interested in trying to use the spys and assassins to full effect, though I hope they aren't as unbalancing as in the original campaign. (where a lot of spys could conquest the map, and where 8 star assassins could die of stupidity, though I have a sinking feeling nothing has changed)

It will be interesting to conquer using guile and battle tactics, instead of superior forces. If anything, I should be greatful that I'll have actual HARD ARMIES to face off against.

Mount Suribachi
05-16-2003, 19:40
It is my learned opinion that Celtic Warriors suck.

I've not fought the Vikings yet, but Huscarles outclass everything else on the battlefield that I've seen so far. Kerns, Celtic Warriors, Gallowglass, Armoured Spearmen have all proved themsleves unable to stand against Huscarles.

Alrowan
05-16-2003, 19:43
well ive discovered how to use welsh now.. and they rock

Damiel
05-16-2003, 20:17
Mount Suribachi: Your opinion is fairly correct, they are next to useless after the first couple of years of play.

Alrowan: Can you expand on that any?

Crazed Rabbit
05-17-2003, 01:34
Methinks, to beat the heavier infantry of the mercians/saxons/vikings, you've got to fight them on your own terms.
You seem to know what to do on defense (ambushes, archers, etc.), so I'll mainly talk about attacking.
When attacking, you want to be able to lure your enemy into open battle with you, so they can't just sit on their butts. This can be done affectively, I've noticed, when flanking your enemy if possible, which forces them out of their position.
Skirmishers/Cav/archers are also affective at luring the enemy out. So is routing some of your troops.
When the foolish enemy has pursued your clever soldiers into open battle, use your (hopefully) better mobility to pull apart his army, then focus on individual units, flanking and attacking from the rear.
Of course, you probably knew most if not all of this, but I think it'll be helpful for the newbies that seem to be popping up all around nowadays.

-Crazed Rabbit

P.S. I hope Gregoshi doesn't check my post count...
P.S.S. Actually, while I've just started posting, I've been reading this forum since I learned MTW was being developed. I'm now trying to be able to post in the Colosseum, where I can unveil my grand plan for modding RTW...

Alrowan
05-17-2003, 03:35
well i would love to share it, but for now its a secret... ive using it on MP a little, once its moe widely known, then ill reveal it... but basically its a defence only army

Gregoshi
05-17-2003, 05:11
A Crazed Rabbit has joined the Org. Lock your doors Lock your windows

Hello CR. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif What brings you to the Org with your large, pointy teeth? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You and your teeth have been welcome here at anytime, but now is as good a time as any I suppose. I only ask that you not leave any rabbit pellets lying around the Entrance Hall - save them for the Colosseum forum. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

I don't understand your post count comment - even I can count to 2. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif If you've been lurking here for so long, you should know the drill for the Entrance Hall. Post here for a bit and you'll be springing your RTW modding plans in the Colosseum in no time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

Crazed Rabbit
05-19-2003, 00:18
Thanks for the welcome, Gregoshi. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I will do my best to post thoughtful posts.

I come to the Org in peace, unless you are out of carrots. In that case, I'll have to sharpen my teeth and my axe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Actually, I joined so I could talk with all you delightful people. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

-Crazed Rabbit

P.S. By post count I meant I hoped to evade your deadly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif , though alas, I haven't. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
05-19-2003, 03:31
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

You can't escape Gregoshi

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Louis,

Gregoshi
05-20-2003, 04:09
Actually, with the large influx of new patrons, my wrists are about ready to snap off from all the http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif -ing OUCH. See?

Papewaio
05-20-2003, 04:33
Yes well if you weren't doing other things to weaken your wrists http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
.
.
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Of course I mean using a mouse http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Gregoshi
05-20-2003, 04:50
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I knew I was setting myself up for abuse...