Game Manual

[Elwe]

So, I'm curious to see if I really am a freak. I like to read through the manual before I play a game, usually before installing it. The VI manual was small enough to read while installing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

So how many other freaks are out there? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Cheers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Xicote]

Well, I must be a freak aswell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

I always read my manual when I go to bed after I've installed it.

[Gregoshi]

Read the manual first. Otherwise I might as well have been born a chimp banging away at random keys. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ChaosLord]

Guess i'm the odd man out, I never read manuals. Nothing is so complicated you can't learn by trial and error, and lots of things have little notes in game anyway.

[Bane]

Most of the time it's trial and error..but for MTW I read the manual and went back and did it again... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I really enjoy manuals. I actually enjoy reading them, and it's always the first thing I do when I buy a game.

[Shahed]

I read the whole manual before even installing the game.
Not much of a challenge though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[A.Saturnus]

When you don`t read the manual, you might miss some important features.

[trickytree]

I only read the manual beforehand if the opportunity presents itself. I'm not going to sit around and ignore a new game because I have to wade through 80 pages of instructions first.

[KukriKhan]

Unlike other software (whose manuals & 'readMe's I pore over in detail) I expect games to be intuitive. So I install, play, then read. Then check other user's/player's reactions in forums, etc.

But I must admit: this method has led to some DOH moments, when I discover some keyboard shortcut that was clearly explained in the manual. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Longasc]

I install and play the game, before I buy and install it, I read the FAQs or Reviews at www.gamefaqs.com... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I usually start reading the manual when I need to clarify things and when I am already used to the game... I liked MTWs ingame-tutorial a lot, btw.

But most manuals fail in giving me inspiration or to answer questions. MTWs Manual is mediocre, I miss some hints and tipps and a described battle plan e.g. But it is quite okay, as most games often come with little to no manual at all

[Shahed]

Does anyone remember The Way of the Daimyo ?
Is that the kind of depth you expected from MTW & VI ?
Would you have appreciated that detail in MTW & VI ?

[FesterShinetop]

Mostly a combination.
I flick through the manual before and during install to get some of the basics. Most games have some sort of tutorial, so then I play that. Then maybe screw around a bit with the game itself and then gradually I read the entire manual. Of course this depends on how big the manual is. If its a short one I usually read through it before I even install a game.
I remember some old manuals (from the old days *sigh* when games still came shipped in huge boxes) that were actually a joy to read and sometimes even educational http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Dîn-Heru]

I read the manual before I installed the game, but this was because I had to wait for my mom to get of work so that she could drive me home.

[Gregoshi]

Amen to your comment about the manuals in the good old days Apache.

[Shahed]

That's what I was referring to by mentioning The Way of the Daimyo.

[Doug-Thompson]

If people read manuals, game forums like this would lose half their posts.

==============

I was very surprized that a pdf version of the manual was not on the MTW disk. If I'm wrong, somebody tell me where it is.

I normally install a game, then at least look through the manual but use the pdf manual. The printed manuals have become condensed and unreadable because they have to fit in a box that is roughly the size of a piece of toast.

At the same time that computer games have become so sophisticated that a printed manual should be bulky, the packaging for those games has become minimal.

I wouldn't mind if they left the manual out entirely as long as they put a good one on a pdf file.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

I tend to vary my methods depending on the type of game. For your basic stratgy fare I will scan the manual during install and then muddle my way through it consulting the manual if I end up getting stumped. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif For role-playing games I usually find it necessary to read the entire manual since each gaming developer has his/her own idea of how the universe should work. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Shooting games often require no reading of the manual unless it is to discover hotkeys for use during gameplay. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Popeye]

I read the manual before installing for a very different reason than many. It is for this reason that I attempt to get a copy of the manual before I even BUY something.

The manual is more than just instructions telling you what you can do and how to do it; it is a window into the game design team.

See, the manual is for users. If care isn't taken to make sure that it is organized, complete, and that the text and pictures are large enough to be useful, that's a sign that the company doesn't think about the user. If an explanation is confusing, or ambiguously worded, it means that the technical writer doesn't understand the game mechanics well enough to explain them, and the cause for this is that his job of producing the manual was not important to the company.

Now, if a company doesn't care enough about me the user to make sure there's a coherent explanation of the program, what would lead me to believe they would be responsive when it comes time for technical support?

You bet I read manuals. I often make buying decisions based on them. I have returned products that had incoherent instructions, just because I didn't want to do business with a company that doesn't care enough about customers to get the manual right.

Having been a technical writer, I know what it takes to write a good manual. It isn't hard, they just have to give a skilled writer access to the coders, who would rather write code than explain it to anyone. Without a top-level emphasis on documentation, the coders will just write code, and leave the writer to figure out what it does on his own. If that happens, the only way you'll get a decent manual is if he's smart enough to do that, and if technical writers were that smart, we'd run software companies instead of just writing manuals.

Lousy manual = lousy product + lousy customer service.

[Sockeye]

Definitely read the manual beforehand - I actualy quite like knowing what different things do without having to pause, read, unpause.

Comes of playing a lot of flight simulations, I guess, can't afford to not read the manual in the air :shock:

Good point about the quality of manuals = quality of user care, popeye - makes a lot of sense. And I've definitely seen a correlation between the quality of the manual, and the quality of the product (not just the support aspect).

Cheers,
Sockeye

[The_Emperor]

I flick through the manual (sometimes read it first) but often I wing it the first time and then read it later on that day... then I play the game properly next time

[ToranagaSama]

I do all of the top 4 at varying times and for varying reasons.

If I've bought the game, but haven't installed and I have to go to the reading room (the crapper) then I'll read all the manual.

If I have the time and want to install, but haven't read the manual, then I'll install and flip through.

Sometimes I'll install a game just to see what it looks like, and then start playing around and pick things up that way and only check the manual as necessary.

Just depends on time, circumstance and the game.

Yet, if the underlying question is whether CA/Activition need to put more effort into Rome's manual as compared to Shogun and/or Medieval, then the answer is an emphatic---YESSS

OH BTW, did I read MTW or STW's manual? NOOO----because its a pamphlet NOT a manual. Yea, I read the pamphlet. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[71-hour Ahmed]

I usally read the manual but I gave up in good old Shogun. All the pages were screwed up, so I only had half of them, but printed twice in it in all the wrong order. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif

Took me weeks to learn it properly without the guide, and I didn't find read way of the Damiyo (cos I'm stupid at times) for over 3 months. doh.

[pdoan8]

It's depends on the game, but I usually play the game before reading anything in the manual. If I run into any problem, then I read the manual and the readme.

[Dogmeat]

I flick through it as the games installing, sometimes the manual is small enough to finish while the game is installing anyway.
I always read the manual cover to cover later on that day though

[Nowake]

Man, I read the manual from WE and all I can say is that you could almost feel passion ... Very good indeed ... They've abandoned the ideea for MTW, though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[MonkeyMan]

I read manuals dependant entirely on my 'ahem' bowel movements. This means sometimes before sometimes after. Back in the good old days when games came in huge boxes with a real manual you could get one that lasted 5 sittings or more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Now thats value for money http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Yes, I think that is the greatest drawback of budget titles, most of them come in some kind of tiny box and the manual is on the CD in .pdf format. Try reading that on the can http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif And I know you can print them, but that will most likely cost you some new printer cartridges.

[_Martyr_]

I flick through before or while insatllation, then I play the game and try to learn myself, then I read the manual. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ziphnor]

I never read the manual, though i probably should. Ive been playing MTW for a while, and only today did the irritation at not being able to easily change facing of units in battle cause me to look it up in the manual. A bit embarassing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[jadast]

I skim the manual while installing only reading if I run into a problem. Then I only read the section I am having a problem with. With MTW I kept the fold out tech tree near the key board as I played. Now I can not remember where I left the book.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org jadast. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif You don't need a manual. We'll be your manual. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Gregoshi has even made us have plastic surgery so that we all look like manuals. Yes.

[Papewaio]

Quote[/b] (Popeye @ May 16 2003,09:50)]Lousy manual = lousy product + lousy customer service.
I like your thinking Popeye and it is a good rule of thumb.

I use a similar one when deciding what video or movie to watch... any feature under 100 mins doesn't have enough of a plot to sustain a decent movie, obviously animated films are the exception to this and there are a few that go under a hundred that are good...

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ May 16 2003,06:52)]Does anyone remember The Way of the Daimyo ?
Is that the kind of depth you expected from MTW & VI ?
Would you have appreciated that detail in MTW & VI ?
would have appreciated that immensely - was dissappointed with the level of documentation provided in Medieval,

was SERIOUSLY not happy with having the VI tech tree in pdf only

[A Nerd]

Playing is more fun than reading Play first read later...if read at all

[HopAlongBunny]

Some manuals are great The original Railroad Tycoon manual comes to mind as a keeper http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Not only did it give a good condensed history of the subject, the bibliography was superb.

My initial attraction to games (pre-computer) was based on my interest in history. The better the game feeds my interest in history the more I like it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Yes, some games can even produce an interest in something After playing Silent Service (Microprose, so there was a good manual as well AND one of those nifty keyboard overlays&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I got a real interest in submarine warfare and read a lot about it

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I bought a WWI FS called 'Dawn Patrol' years ago, and as well as having a huge manual, it had an A4 200 page full colour book about the life of Manfred Von Richthofen I couldn't believe it

[Captain Fishpants]

Quote[/b] (barocca @ June 01 2003,05:16)]
Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ May 16 2003,06:52)]Does anyone remember The Way of the Daimyo ?
Is that the kind of depth you expected from MTW & VI ?
Would you have appreciated that detail in MTW & VI ?
would have appreciated that immensely - was dissappointed with the level of documentation provided in Medieval,

was SERIOUSLY not happy with having the VI tech tree in pdf only
I would have loved to have written a Booke of Chivalry to go with the original M:TW to repeat what I did with Way of the Daimyo, but sadly time pressures made it impossible. These things happen.

I too remember the 'big' manuals that used to come with PC games with affection [except when I had to help write them]. It was a defining feature of many Microprose games that a carelessly dropped manual could stun a small mammal. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Still, I think you'll find what we're planning to include in Rome Total War will be up to snuff.

MikeB ~ CA

[Portuguese Rebel]

Depends on the type of game. if its a FPS then no manual is required (generally), if its something like panzer general you can take years finding and testing things that are clearly stated in the manual.

Dam i miss Micropose... how can they have gone under? they made such good games... maybe it was the manuals that framed them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[EarthShogun]

Me I always look throught the book as In stall the game. any by the way game books make great bathroom reading. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Gregoshi]

Yes, a good manual makes an excellent Toilet Seat Journal.

[FesterShinetop]

And can come in very handy when you run out of TP... but that's another story/thread... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

The Microprose manuals where as grand as the boxes they came in. I had a lot of their games: Silent Service 1+2, M1 Tank Platoon, F19 Stealth Fighter, Grand Prix, F15 Strike Eagle 2.... was a great site to behold all these boxes standing next to each other http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Shame Microprose bit the dust, have great memory of them, they even introduced me to the simulation genre with the spectacular Solo Flight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Captain Fishpants, what previous work might we have read from you?

[Mithrandir]

Got to do something while installing...

After that I occasionally look something up, used the tech tree more than the manual I think...

[Captain Fishpants]

Quote[/b] (Apache @ June 04 2003,06:50)]Captain Fishpants, what previous work might we have read from you?
Well, among other things, serious chunklettes of the original B-17 Flying Fortress manual (not the recent reworking) were my words, taken from the internal design docs.

Since then I've done a few manuals in a freelance existence before CA, including at least one Asterix game, Taz Express, the Medieval manual and VI, and the Way of the Daimyo all by way of earning a crust. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

And for the very old or long-memoried: GW's Realm of Chaos. And lots of now ancient White Dwarfs...

MikeB

[econ21]

A mark of a good game is probably one where you don't need a manual - information is easily accessible in game and the interface makes it obvious how to get that information.

That said, I keep all my manuals. The MTW is pretty informative, although I can't say I used it much having played STW. The in-game battlefield tutorials were pretty good. Generally, the Totalwar games seem to have a lot of good stuff hidden away that you can only glean from forum like this (esp. unit stats). This is probably mainly a sign of a deep game, rather than a skimpy manual.

The manuals I like best have some historical flavour, designer notes and hints, and lots of detailed precise information relevant to game play (stats etc). Nowadays that sort of inside stuff tends to be reserved for the strategy guides (which give precious little strategy).

Homm3 and Imperialism 2 have game manuals I keep coming back to; some of the Dungeons and Dragons CRPG game manuals (eg Icewind Dale, Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights) are pretty impressive too - so concise relative to the PnP sources but so informative.

The manuals I hate are pdfs and ones written as if for dummies

For games like MTW, charts with tech trees and quantitative unit descriptions are very useful - room for improvement there, especially with VI

[Sir Robin]

Manuals? We don't need no stinkin manuals...

I am a man. I never ask for directions, always think I can get one more mile out of the gas tank, know I can fix something better than people trained for it, and feel that world peace can happen with enough duct tape.

I install the game and dive right in.

While the game is installing I explain to the wife that I love her dearly and that she won't be seeing me for a couple of days.

Then I spend a week saying wow, cool, oops, and what?

Finally, if I am stumped, I get some rubber gloves, a big bottle of bleach, and a welding face shield.

Once I have found why the game did that. I burn the rubber gloves, bury the welding shield, and cower in a corner pouring bleach on myself mumbling, go to a happy place over and over.

My wife, for some obviously evil reason, still claims to love me and finds this behavior, cute.

Recent studies have shown that wives live longer than their husbands because wives are not married to women. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FesterShinetop]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ June 04 2003,15:43)]including at least one Asterix game
So you allready have some experience for the RTW manual? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wilbo]

Quote[/b] (SeljukSinan @ May 16 2003,06:52)]Does anyone remember The Way of the Daimyo ?
Is that the kind of depth you expected from MTW & VI ?
Would you have appreciated that detail in MTW & VI ?
hahaha Thats what I really wanted with Medieval and was sorely dissapointed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I really, really liked that thing and read it loads. It was sooooo interesting. I liked all the info, and it really set the scene. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Wilbo]

Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ June 03 2003,08:39)]I would have loved to have written a Booke of Chivalry to go with the original M:TW to repeat what I did with Way of the Daimyo, but sadly time pressures made it impossible. These things happen.
I should have read this before making the above post, really... Damn you no editing

Anyways, you should probably convince your superiors that making this would be a good thing for advertising Medieval / VI and the Total War community in general, or you could do it in your own time, as a little project, eh buddy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Portuguese Rebel]

There we go again on the not enough historical information... Hey guys the MTW scope was EUROPE and a little bit around it. To provide enough historical information similar to STW would require you guys taking a European History degree.

[Wilbo]

haha... True... But a brief outline of the timeline, and a copy of the information about each faction wouldnt go amiss. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Remember Way Of The Daimyo was a html file, so its not as though they would have to print reams out.

[Captain Fishpants]

Quote[/b] (Wilbo @ June 04 2003,12:55)]Anyways, you should probably convince your superiors that making this would be a good thing for advertising Medieval / VI and the Total War community in general, or you could do it in your own time, as a little project, eh buddy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Own time? Own? What's that then? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

MikeB ~ CA

[Shahed]

Fishpants you did a great job with Way of the Daimyo.

I salute you.

[Teutonic Knight]

Quote[/b] (Xicote @ May 15 2003,22:19)]Well, I must be a freak aswell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

I always read my manual when I go to bed after I've installed it.
oh my God thats exactly what I do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Does anyone remember The Way of the Daimyo ?
Is that the kind of depth you expected from MTW & VI ?
Would you have appreciated that detail in MTW & VI ?

1-YES
2-OH, YES
3-SURELLY



Quote[/b] ]hahaha Thats what I really wanted with Medieval and was sorely dissapointed.

I really, really liked that thing and read it loads. It was sooooo interesting. I liked all the info, and it really set the scene.

It really did set the cene, just like the videos that MTW does not have http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]Fishpants you did a great job with Way of the Daimyo.

I salute you.

Totally right

Awesome job http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Si GeeNa]

Well, usually the first thing i do when i get back after purchasing a new game is to totally install the game and wait for the whole thing to finish.

I'll play out a couple first and not bother to read the manual. My belief is that most things are intuitive and you learn more by trying the funny buttons than read about them.

Many a time the learning curve is steep but i derive far greater pleasure that way. Can you believe i did the same with RailRoad Tycoon 2 as well?

I save the manual when i go to the throne room for a dump...

*Its strange when i realise how much reading time is actually spent there...*

[TheSilverKnight]

I read the whole thing before, seeing if I have to do anything special during the installation (CD key or anything like that). So freak me up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif