Defeating the Saxon/Mercian Huscarls

[Jacque Schtrapp]

In order to get a basic feel for VI I have played fifty or so turns with all eight factions on the hard setting. One of the first things I noticed is that it tends to be in your best interests to run from the Vikings in the early stages. The second thing I noticed took about thirty years or so to develop. It seems that all of the factions incapable of building Huscarls (Irish, Scots, Picts etc.) are somewhat outclassed on the battlefield once these armoured bullies begin showing up in force. Sure you can beat them, but this is more often than not going to be extremely bloody and expensive.

Huscarls even stand up to most of the Vikings units, including berserkers, with a fair showing. The standard MTW tactic of engaging with a frontal assault by a foot unit and swinging cavalry aroung to attack from the rear still works but with less effectiveness due in part to the reduced capability of cavalry in the early period which is the setting for VI.

My challenge is this:

You are an upstart lordling that has seized power in your realm and conquered all of your local foes. Now the time has come to expand into the rich lower regions of the english isle. You march out onto the fields of Saxony/Mercia and find yourself facing two units of armored spearmen holding the center of a line featuring eight units of huscarls, with four lined up on each side of the spearmen. Behind the front line lurks three units of archers and waiting in the rear are two units of horsemen and one unit of nobles.

What faction are you from (excluding the vikings)? Describe the sixteen units you are leading into battle as well as the four units you are holding in reserve. Finally give a brief run down of the tactics you will use to dispatch the huscarls while dealing with the other more conventional units.

The Saxons or the Mercians often end up controlling the largest amount of territory during the latter stages of the game. Perhaps through a sharing of information such as this we can develop tactics to use when playing as one of the less advantaged factions. Come... share... listen... learn... enjoy...

[Sockeye]

Interesting - and one I'm not really qualified to speculate about, since I have failed miserably to come to terms with the viking invaders in the early stages. It becomes worse, as your generals tend to lose their chins fairly rapidly after having their 700 men rout from 75 royal huscarles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It is hugely enjoyable when you do start to win, accomplished with a large amount of archers (problem with ammo being short though), some horse units (mounted nobles to entice the enemy into range, without charging your archers - gamey? not sure&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif and royal bodyguards to charge home when they're weakened enough. Armoured Spearmen to hold them long enough to charge into the rear with your royal horse, and finally some woodsmen to take the spearmen out once.

Told you I wasn't qualified to answer I shall be waiting to hear some good tactice to lift http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sockeye

[Damiel]

Well.. as the Welsh I'm still developing tactics, and havn't really succeeded with any deviation from spearline with archers(bandits) in the front, that fade back when the enemy advances, and horsemen flanking.

I like to have 6 units of armored spear, upgraded as much as possible, and as many units of bandits as I can muster, but for this scenario, lets say I have 7, with 2 units of horsemen and 1 of royal bodyguard.

The Bodyguards stay behind the frontline until needed, and in this situation, I'll usually have my units like so:
* stands for horsemen
- stands for armored spear ordered to hold the line
/ and \ stand for spearmen ordered to protect the flank, or run around to the enemies flank if they are unchallenged.
= stands for welsh bandits
$ is the general unit, usually bodyguards

** ====



/----\
===
$
(NOTE THIS IS ON THE OFFENSIVE ONLY I have a much more elaborate strat utilizing the bandits hiding ability on defense, which is where the welsh shine) The front bandits are set to hold formation, and I control them almost exclusivly at first, while of course running the horses out of sight of the enemy, for a flank. The 4 units of forward bandits stay in 4 row formations, side by side, while the 3 units of rear bandits are arranged in single line formation.

If I see an opportunity to draw the enemy to me, I'll usually split 2 of the forward bandits off, and have them form up to the left or right of where I anticipate the coming battle to be, so that they stay out of sight, but open up a volley from behind the enemy, when I have engaged in inital melee.

I would engage the horses with my horses, unless they presented themselves to my spearmen, in which case I'd just sick one unit of spears on them to hold them off. Horse units are the only real threat to a bandit army, and so I have to tie them up at all costs.

Once enganged in melee, with my spearline, I generally take the liberty to shoot the enemy general with my bandits, until he is out of range, then I aim for a unit of the enemy that is just behind the front line (I find that in doing this, you take a lot less friendly fire from the bandits, but the vollies still land on the ENEMIES side of the front line, killing units of h-carls that they aren't even aiming for.

The flankers will probably be busy, but usually only on one side, and so I'll take the flanker from the other side and run him over to help the other, or run him up to flank if my horsemen are preoccupied.

Generally, I rely on my front bandits to thin the army out enough before they even get to me, but if enemy horse aren't after them, I'll focus fire all 4 units on one unit of h-carls, which usually makes the AI send a few h-carls after them in pursuit. If that happens, I lead them away from the main battle, and dispatch them easily.

Hope that wasn't too much of a ramble.

[Damiel]

oh one other thing...

It's a bit cheesy, but I've found that a good way to fight on my own terms (as the welsh) is to get a good army together, like the one i talked about above, but also attack with about two times as many celtic warriors as well. Even the big stacks of mercians usually decide to abandon their provice when three full stacks of units land there. Then I take it over, and await the counter attack, which puts me on the defensive, where I have the advantage with my bandits.

Then I simply move my two stacks of celtic warriors and another stack of the above mentioned army into the next province, rense repeat, until I've pushed the enemy into a corner, and he's got all his armies on a few provinces, then I just grind them down slowly on D.

[SirGrotius]

I've noticed that a good tactic is to look less tempting (this is in reference to the vikings in particular). I put sizable stacks of units in every single assailable province, and expand conservatively. I'm using the pics and love when my friends, the saxons and irish, fight the vikings for me.

[Makkadam]

I use the welsh.

Welsh bandits are usefull with their long range and armor-penetrating arrows. So i bring 5-6 units of bandits. Then some armored spearmen to use as a wall. Javelins can be extremly usefull against huscarls so i bring 2 units of those.

Finally take som cav for flanking purposes.

[MalibuMan]

As the Irish, I would field two units of cavalry, eight units of bonnachts and four of gallowglasses, with the reserve consisting entirely of cavalry.

The two initially-deployed cavalry units hang back for a little while to avoid the attentions of the close-combat units, then go for the archers - that's their only role.

The main line is the gallowglasses and bonnachts, with the gallows taking a flanking position. Then we just roll forward until the bonnachts are in range, chuck some spears and charge. The gallows come round flank or rear and charge in (at the huscarles, the bonnachts can lick spearmen on their own, with their spears let alone their charge).

The one major difficulty - making sure the bonnachts charge the huscarles not vice-versa This is difficult because they have to get so close to throw their spears that the huscarles may steal the charge. If the terrain is such that this may be a problem (hills etc.) then maybe do the frontal charge with the gallows, and risk throwing spears into the combat from flank or rear before charging with bonnachts.

The reserve cavalry are to charge in wherever a combat is going badly, and to run down routers.

oops maths that adds up to 14 units, so lets have two more gallows units to really help versus the huscarles.

[pow902]

Throwing javelins uphill into a battle is not recommended. You will kill far to many of your own for this to be effective.

[MalibuMan]

yeah exactly, that's why having a hill there makes it so much more difficult. You can't go in first with the bonnachts unless you're very careful, because they're likely to get charged if they hold back to throw, and if you go in first with the gallows you have to get behind or to the side of the huscarls before throwing and charging.

[Cooperman]

pictish crossbowmen know what to do to huscarles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif