VI: Help, i am becoming Christian!!!

[Longasc]

Hello

I am somewhat confused. I am playing as the Vikings and I successfully killed all Picts and Scots. But hey, except Hordaland and Jütland all my Provinces are 80%+ Catholic But strangely, their loyality increases. I am still shown as pagan, however.

My questions:
I have only occasionally seen a catholic bishop, so why change my people to christianity? I know this is right according to history, but I see no in game reason for that right now.

Do my pagan shrines lose their power once I am converted or do I only lose my pillaging boni?

A second question: I am running low on money right now. I am on conquest for making money, but its only 3500 right now, and I have a lot of provinces to run. What shall I do? I thought of starting farming in Orkney and the northern tips of Britain and in Ulster, which has already 360 income, all other provinces only have around 50-70. I am forced to stop producing men soon if my next raid in Reget and a Northumbrian province (Abbey, hehe, at least 1000 Gold...^^) bring me a serious boost.

All in all I got the impression that raiding is far more rewarding than taking and holding underdeveloped provinces... but to win I must do that at some time... :>

[Gregoshi]

Longasc, I've started running into the Christianity conversion issue myself, though I've pinned it to bishops. My dilemma is that every bishop I see has 2-3 stars and my assassins have none. Those bishops are deadlier than my assassins as I've lost several trying to get rid of them. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of easy targets for the assassins to practice on and build up valour. I'm currently working on the few emissaries I can find and some princesses with an assassin going with the epithet the Peaceful. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif I've got him up to valour 2 and I hope to change that epithet to the Bishop Killer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As for your florin problem, raid in the south. The provinces are much richer there. I started in the north too and couldn't believe any faction could survive on provinces producing 75 florins/year. Then I happened to check out some of the southern provinces... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Cha-ching http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

One word of caution: don't start building up provinces unless you are prepared to keep them. I had taken Fib and built a port and kept a 400-500 man army there. Later, the Northumbrians attacked Fib with a much larger army (okay, I provoked them first http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) and I was beaten (first time in VI). When I took Fib back the next year, my Vikings go carried away and sacked my own Viking-built port in Fib. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif The boys had fun but 750 florin and 4(?) years' work went down the tube.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote[/b] (Longasc @ May 17 2003,05:51)]Hello

I am somewhat confused. I am playing as the Vikings and I successfully killed all Picts and Scots. But hey, except Hordaland and Jütland all my Provinces are 80%+ Catholic But strangely, their loyality increases. I am still shown as pagan, however.

My questions:
I have only occasionally seen a catholic bishop, so why change my people to christianity? I know this is right according to history, but I see no in game reason for that right now.

Do my pagan shrines lose their power once I am converted or do I only lose my pillaging boni?

A second question: I am running low on money right now. I am on conquest for making money, but its only 3500 right now, and I have a lot of provinces to run. What shall I do? I thought of starting farming in Orkney and the northern tips of Britain and in Ulster, which has already 360 income, all other provinces only have around 50-70. I am forced to stop producing men soon if my next raid in Reget and a Northumbrian province (Abbey, hehe, at least 1000 Gold...^^) bring me a serious boost.

All in all I got the impression that raiding is far more rewarding than taking and holding underdeveloped provinces... but to win I must do that at some time... :>

Quote[/b] ]I am somewhat confused. I am playing as the Vikings and I successfully killed all Picts and Scots. But hey, except Hordaland and Jütland all my Provinces are 80%+ Catholic But strangely, their loyality increases. I am still shown as pagan, however.

Haven't played enough Vikings to be absolute, but weren't the Picts and Scots mostly Christian before you took over their provinces? If so, naturally they would remain Christian until you took the steps and time, necessary, to convert your population. Have you?


Quote[/b] ]I have only occasionally seen a catholic bishop, so why change my people to christianity? I know this is right according to history, but I see no in game reason for that right now.

Based on the theory above, I would presume that they haven't changed but were Christian already and/or just as the manual (or the game) states Christianity was quite established and on the rise during the time of Viking Invaisions. Consequently, paganism was on the decline, perhaps this progression has been coded into the game and can only be adversely effected by active contrary effort by the player.

Just speculating based on prior experience, it'll be another week or two before I try the Viking faction.

Obviously, I can't respond to your pagan shrine question, but regarding Raiding:

Raiding is a CHEESSY tactic. It is CHEESY for the player to engage in most (if not all) tactics the AI either does not or cannot, ALSO, be capable of.

THE AI DOES NOT RAID

Raiding is done, as you intend to increase a player's monetary position.

Yet, the Player already has an extremely significant monetary advantage over the AI, sooo...ahhh...why would a player need more of an advantage???

Searcher the archives for Cheesy, Raiding and peruse the TOC to learn more about improving your earning power.

JFYI, Trade was implemented into Total War to effect just what it appears to be doing in your Campaign. That is slow the player downnnnnnn with a bit of realism.

~ToranagaSama

[Longasc]

Gregoshi, you are right, those souther Provinces are really rich I just conquered Ireland, one rebel province left, I decided to let them revolt and take care of them later. Worked well, I killed the Irish Faction and I am now invading Britain from Ireland. Coastal raids and rich provinces, lightly defended - yeah.

My Assassins have not found a bishop so far, but I am still becoming more and more christian. Strangely the loyality of the first provinces I conquered grew extremely 60 Men only, and they can be taxed VERY HIGH

@Toranaga: Raiding is a concept that was NOT worthwile in Medieval IMO

I conquered and kept all provinces, little use in destroying buildings there. Viking Raids get the full amount of money for destroyed buildings, and they are

NECESSARY

The Vikings have POOR provinces. It takes 16 turns to clear the woods, 16 to create farmes and so on...

It is hardly worthwile in some provinces with 37 normal income...

Richer (76-100+) are more rewarding to improve.

The monetary advantage of the player might be given when playing the Mercians e.g., the Vikings tend to have more income from Raiding than from farming, and it is very hard and takes a lot of time to change that.

Another impression: The playstyle of VI is quite different to Medieval, really refreshing

BTW, I am probably the only Viking player to use a lot of Archers... :> I use them to harass or provoke enemy units, often they run away or lose morale before closing in. And if they really do, Viking Landsmenn or Viking Thralls charge down the hill... :>

Archers are also extremely useful for supporting Infantry marching/fighting uphill.

[Lehesu]

I do not think there is any cheesy tactics. Anything that can be done, short of hacking or cheating/exploiting a bug, is a legitimate tactic. If you are so good that the ai can't touch you, that doesn't take away the fact that all strategies are legitimate, just as being very good at the multiplayer does not make certain tactical moves illegitimate because you use them against newbs. If it is a poin of honor, than fine, limit yourself. Otherwise, I don't think people should be limited in anyway the strategy and playstyle they pick.

[Mount Suribachi]

ToranagaSama - you admit that you haven't played as the Vikings. When you do, you will realise that the Vikings MUST raid They have a starting income of around -450 florins. That means that on expert, without building a single improvement or unit that they will go broke in 4 or 5 turns. They MUST raid to generate income. I am a builder in terms of playstyle, playing as the Vikings forces you onto the offensive, and great fun it is too

[Longasc]

Well said Suribachi.

I think I will raid France next, just curious whats down there in Francland hehe....

[Degtyarev14.5]

Hello Longasc et al.,

No comment on conversion to Christianity just yet, as I haven't had any problems there. I've only conquered the two northern-most provinces, and creating shrines there worked wonders for all paganism stands for.

As for your income: raiding will provide an excellent working principal, but eventually you will run out of abbeys to pillage. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Given that Scandinavia is useless as far as agriculture is concerned, that leaves one other source of reliable income: trade.

Florins running low, I decided to lay off the pillaging and take a few years out to build up my reserves, both monetary and military. I had been allied with Wales for quite a while, but once the Irish sided with me the race was on to win my favour http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif So I allied with everyone and invested in trade.

Denmark is now earning close to two thousand per year, while Norway and the nothern-most British province (the name escapes me) are both earning around four hundred. Meanwhile the Pictish ruler was killed without an heir by the Scots, and the Mercian king carelessly allowed his blood line to die out, leaving numerous rebel provinces to raid for supplementary income. Hey, no such thing as too much, I say

Yessir, I hope that helps you out there...

A.

[Longasc]

ArseClown, good idea

A port of a friendly nation is required for trade, am I right?

Hmm, time to check South England. I am going around the isles, first north, then Ireland, now I am invading the EAST Coast of England. Strange strategy, hm? :>

[The_Emperor]

When I played as the Vikings my raids suddnely changed to occupation later on...

But it is true that if the Vikings want to get some cash they should invade a nice well developed province.

I haven't managed to kill off bishops very successfully but the Pagan Shrines and Altars have helped to rollback Christianity.

Too bad that Bishops are now the emissaries of the British factions

[Degtyarev14.5]

I believe you can trade with neutral factions... Correct me if I'm wrong. But you must have ports to trade, as must the provinces that you are trading with.

To avoid the conversion issue, I'm training only diplomatic units on the British Isles - spies, assassins, emissaries. All of my military units come from the Fatherland.

I've just created my first Joms Vikings- HOOOLY SCHEIDT Instant five-star generals, just add florins. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

To be honest, I prefer the original campaigns (with the VI additions, of course). My stupid Ruskies had a civil war last night, at which point I decided to throw in the towel and go to sleep. With the new units, the eastern factions are now worth playing, and playing well.

A.

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ May 17 2003,09:36)]One word of caution: don't start building up provinces unless you are prepared to keep them. I had taken Fib and built a port and kept a 400-500 man army there. Later, the Northumbrians attacked Fib with a much larger army (okay, I provoked them first http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) and I was beaten (first time in VI). When I took Fib back the next year, my Vikings go carried away and sacked my own Viking-built port in Fib. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif The boys had fun but 750 florin and 4(?) years' work went down the tube.
the vikings don't need a port to invaded through sea lanes. so why bother building a port?



I think I will raid France next, just curious whats down there in Francland hehe....


there's nothing down there. blank land http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Gregoshi]

You need ports for your spies and emissaries to get around and also for trade.