bridge defense screenshot

[solypsist]

lots of talk about the best ways, no screenshots, so i've remedied the problem. here it is:
http://solypsist.homestead.com/files/bridgedef.jpg

you'll notice i have guns. archers work well, even better for killing (and rain), but the limited ammo can be a problem when facing an enemy larger than yourself, plus the guns drop enemy morale, which is virtually a guarantee the enemy will never touch your men.

[TakeshidaSo]

Thanks for this thread, Psist. People were forever complaining about how hard it was to defend a bridge. It sure is a lot easier to attack up a wooded hill.

[barocca]

excellent,

for the mongol campaign substitute ashi-x for teppo's!

BTW
has anyone noticed what happens when the mongols try and charge ashi-x?
specifically multiple units of ashi-x stacked and racked, defending a hill or a bridge?

ie:- typical army setup
front rank .. :- ashi-x ashi-x ashi-x ashi-x
second rank :- ashi-x ashi-x ashi-x ashi-x
third rank .. :- Yari-S archer archer Yari-S
fourth rank :- place any other units here

i did some experimenting and the same results can be obtained using the following set up:-
front rank .. :- arquey arquey arquey arquey
second rank :- arquey arquey arquey arquey
third rank .. :- Yari-S archer archer Yari-S
fourth rank :- place any other units here

(i used a modified custom campaign to 'create' the above situation)

similar casualties and similar 'responses' from the mongol units charging into a hail of x-bow bolts as charging into a hail of lead.
I think the programmers have assigned the same 'morale shock' bonuses to ashi-x as for arqueys!

even Mongol Heavy Cavalry will die in numbers!
one thing different is the amount of ammunition carried
- against a huge army you will have to be 'cautious' about letting all ashi-x blaze away at units who will break easily (spearmen)
and save their bolts for units a bit more important MLC and MHC.

one more note, the mongol seems to know when your army is mostly ashi-x, even when YOU attack a province, and seems to hold little respect for them, meaning the mongol defender will almost always attack you!


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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 10-31-2001).]

[solypsist]

just a quick note. you'll notice the screenshot is owari; it's easier to just set up by the closest bridge (leftside when the defender)and ignore the other completely. the computer AI always (stupidly) goes straight for where your mass of troops is. You might want to set up a unit of archers and two units of yari on the main hill for the occasional enemy that will use the second bridge.
if you have it, battlefield ninaj are great for setups like this one. run your BN across the bridge and as the enemy units break and flee, you can mop them up with your BN; it's a good way to get the enemy taisho since the AI has a tendency to march him across the bridge early in the battle.



[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 10-31-2001).]

[CaptMac]

Great screen shot Soly! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I have also used this defence for bridges and have found Owari to be well suited. While the AI does concentrate on the leftmost bridge, I like to take 1cav, 1 arch and 1 melee unit accross the other bridge and attack his rear.
Must be careful that you don't position these units directly in the line of retreat in the event the enemy routs...not pretty.

The AI will almost always attack the left bridge. In one campaign I encountered an attacking hoard in Owari for many turns. Turn after turn I repelled larger armies, inflicting great losses on the enemy while taking few on my part. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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The only thing you have to regret are the chances not taken.
Expect the unexpected and take in air.

[Zone]

I find a good way is to have a unit of souped up Naginata right at the front of the bridge with large numbers of archers behind. The naginata prevent anyone getting through so there are only about 5 people fighting at any one time. The rest are sitting ducks on the bridge doing absoloutly nothing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif.

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[Pachinko]

I used it before. It does work!! I got like 1,000 men was killed.. And me....200 or 300 men. GO TEPPO!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
And no timer.

P.

[BakaGaijin]

Do you mean to suggest that bridge battles are hard?

Quote Battle Type:: CAMPAIGN
Date:: 10/22/01
Time:: 21:30:36
Attackers:: Takeda
Defenders:: Shimazu
Victory for:: DEFENDERS
Game Time:: 11 mins 30 secs
Province:: Echigo
Season:: Autumn

Player Name:: Shimazu
---------------------
Player Type:: HUMAN
Clan:: SHIMAZU
Stance:: Defender
Koku Allocated:: 0
Koku Spent:: 0
Number of Units:: 6
Total Troop Count:: 360
Total Men Killed:: 467
Total Men Lost:: 123

Player Name:: Takeda
--------------------
Player Type:: CPU
Clan:: TAKEDA
Stance:: Attacker
Number of Units:: 17
Total Troop Count:: 1020
Total Men Killed:: 109
Total Men Lost:: 467[/QUOTE]

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[This message has been edited by BakaGaijin (edited 11-01-2001).]

[solypsist]

defending bridges is actually pretty easy just about any way, but then again the AI usually doesn't invade a river province unless he outnumbers you by 3 to 1. Even your best hand-to-hand troops get tired and can only do so much in the face of overwhelming numbers; this pictured tactic (which was mentioned in a different bridge thread) leaves your melee troops potentially free for the whole battle.

[Zone]

A great way to trick the enmy into attacking your river province is to have an army of Kensi (I had 8 Kensi all with completley upgraded armour and weapons). The general Kensi was H6 which meant that all the H's during the battle were 8's, 9's and 10's. An unbeatable army! Some amusing stats at the end. This army is also superb for breaking sieges and flattening any defenders in castles http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[BakaGaijin]

Zone: I'd bet that army could lick just about any one out there, just because it's so damned expensive! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Zone]

Well it was built up over several years and I did have about 60% of the provinces so Koku was not a problem http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[SlackerXS]

What about a bridge offense?...

What are some of the good strats to use?....

*just got slaughtered by attacking a bridge battle w/ knowing it in advance... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

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SlackER ~ Extreme

[Zone]

This is where having one or two Kensi in you're army helps. If they have plenty of armour you send them on first. All fire is concentrated onto them (If playing the AI and quite likely if playing Humans) and the rest of your army can cross relatively unscathed.

Another way is to send some Ninja across. The comp. won't attack. Start firing on their archers or something. If playing the AI chances are they won't react and you just watch them rain to the floor http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. You can also often get them round to the back and attck their Taisho. This does get them moving and they'll turn round to see off the threat to their general. At this point you rush your army across.

If you don't yet have these units, either wait a few years until you do or try and entice half of the defending army into bordering provinces by leaving them unguarded. You can then pounce with a large army. Something with plenty of armour at the front is neccessary though. Of course if you don't have MI or WE your best bet is Naginata or what I'd recomend is buy MI!

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[Steppe_ Pony]

Bridge battles are allways fun.

COngrats Solypist. Now try winning the same battle on the offensive http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Zone,

This is probably the only time were Kensai are good.

The hitting power of 30 No Dachi in one man it's....awesome.

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"Which one of you cute little cup cakes want's to come home with me, make me a nice dinner and give me a blowjob!"
-George Carlin

[A Nerd]

Brilliant! I like to set up my archers and infantry the same way...the AI usually sends over shock troops in the first couple of waves and they tend to make excellent pin cushions...I've made several highly outnumbered last stand in such a fashion and the all died honorably!

[Zone]

Quote Originally posted by Steppe_ Pony:

Zone,

This is probably the only time were Kensai are good.
[/QUOTE]

What do you mean the only time? You obviously haven't been reading all the posts, there are some which (admittedly posted by me) show the merits of a Kensi siege break. Especially for attacking a castle. Once they're in it's all over (See the one titled 'What's happening'). In my last campaign I had an army of about 10 , the general was H6 which meant that all units were about 8, 9 or 10 during the battle, all with W3 A3. They fought about 40 battles not losing once and only with about 2 casualties.



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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[BakaGaijin]

Ah. Bridge attacks are tricky, but fun and rewarding! My favourite tactic is to set my missile troops up forward, close to the banks. Then, I send across a single unit of Yari Ashigaru (if you have guns as your missile units, make sure there are samurai behind them to keep them in place!) and set them to hold position and hold formation right at the mouth of the bridge on the enemy's side. The enemy's melee troops will cross... right into the field of fire of your muskets and archers! The Ashi will eventually rout, but if you're lucky you can reuse the same unit two or three times and whittle down the enemy that way. You'll take heavy losses, but theirs are usually worse. Sometimes, the enemy will send his taisho to do battle with your bridge-crossing unit. Focus all fire on him, and he may break, taking the rest of the army with him! If this happens, your shock troops can have a field day slaughtering the fleeing enemy. Otherwise, just wait until the enemy's numbers (and arrow supplies) are dwindled, then the real troops can be sent across to finish the job.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Zone]

I just had the mother of all bridge defense games (which I lost). I thought it was me (580 men or so) against a ronin army of I thought about 1100 men so I went ahead with the battle. My taisho was an H2 cavalry archer, I had 300 archers, 60 ND and 80 WM and about 130 ashi. I managed to rout the first wave and kill their Taisho with not too many losses but had by now pretty much run out of arrows. Then the second wave came (a few on my side as I don't have the patch) and now with alot of loses I managed to get rid of them. This I thought was the end and a victory for me but I must have read wrong and the enemy had 2100 because yet more of the bastards came on. These were archers and cavalry against which my few remaining WM and archers weren't too helpful. I did my best and was suprised to see the enemy routing (they mostly consisted of ashi apart from the last wave). Most of the action had taken place on the bridge which was helping me a great deal and the presence of my Taisho kept my army together well. However, just as I thought I had it my Taisho thought otherwise and ran away with the rest of my army. Final figures of about 1570 kills, 450 losses and a win for the comp. I took back the province next go though.

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'

[SlackerXS]

Hmm... that was rather strange that ur Taisho routed when you have the win at hand...

about the enemies coming at ur side of the bank... need that patch to get rid of it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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SlackER ~ Extreme

[Zone]

I had a look at the log files and realised it was 750 v 2500 and I had 694 losses and 1679 kills. Not bad really

My Taisho ran away (he was R4) because he had arrows raining on him I think.

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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'