Other historical computer wargames [Archive]

Hakonarson

05-21-2003, 23:22

My main interests are Combat Mission - Barbarossa to Berlin - a tactical WW2 game of the Eastern (Russian) front - super realistic AND well balanced and playable http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

And DBAOL - De Bellis Antiquitatus On Line. DBA is a figure game set that's been translated onto the box by some clever Russian chaps. The game itself has no AI - you can only play vs another person, and this is done over the net via DBAOL's own PBEM server.

It might sound a bit old and slow, but it's a great game - armies consist of exactly 12 units that are unitary - they are either whole and fine or they are dead, battlefields are rather small but with realistic terrain and effects, and combat is dead simple.

But sort of like chess the simplicity of the game leads to great gameplay.

DBA evolved into DBM - De Bellis Multitudinous (large battles, battles of the multitudes) that added complexity and more function and is the main figure game I play.

MrNiceGuy

05-22-2003, 00:37

SPWaW (http://www.matrixgames.com/insidemg/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=2)

Being an SL/ASL player this game was a must, and it's free

71-hour Ahmed

05-22-2003, 18:40

Close Combat 3 is pretty good but it gets too easy after a while ,plus it looks very dated now.

AvramL

05-22-2003, 20:27

I too play both Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin and DBA online, coincedentally.

Hakonarson

05-22-2003, 23:05

Hi Avram - small world eh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'm Kanishka on DBAOL or Stalin's Organ on CMBB if you want a game of either

And Niceguy - I played the SP series for years and years and years but I find it's a bit passe now - the 2D look doesn't do it for me any more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

AvramL

05-25-2003, 08:03

Sent a challenge to you on DBAOL, though I warn you that i have only just started playing so I don't really know what I'm doing.

Hakonarson

05-25-2003, 23:49

no problem little glasshopper - every one must learn everything they know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kyodai-britishbeef

06-02-2003, 20:31

im really in to strategy games and currently have save games running in : cossacks, stronghold,age of mythology and praetorians.

Mr Frost

06-03-2003, 02:55

World War II On Line .
A First person shooter/sim that uses a genuine physics model {unlike anything any other game uses , it is the first to do what it does} and a damage modeling that is mind boggling in it's complexity {you aught to see a dammage log } .
We begin a map in the start of the Battle of France , but we {our respective high commands} then have control of future development and production of equiptment , in deployment and basically we have a first person WWII Total War http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I personally am an Axis {German , though I will be Italian and Japanses when they are modeled ; the game is a work in progress} MP40 specialist , FlaK30 gunner and 109 fighter pilot who moonlights on occasion as a rifle , half-arsed tanker and sapper if there are cruiser tanks foolish enough to be opperating where I will have good enough cover to reach them and place some nice satchel charges on their sweet spot .
It is like no other game on the net , the hardest PvP there is

That I also play Total War shows how good MTW is , given how good WWIIOL is {many Blitzkriegers are huge fans of MTW }
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hakonarson

06-03-2003, 03:16

WW2OL wasn't quite the first to use a realistic physics engine - Combat Mission Bayond Overlord beat it to that if nothing else did

WW2OL also suffered from premature release of a truly horribly buggy version that was overpriced and .....well.....just rubbish

I hear it's getting better, which would be nice - I might try it again some time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Mr Frost

06-03-2003, 03:51

One can blame Playnet for pushing it out the door too soon . Killer and his team knew full well it wasn't ready , but his backers were a bit foolish and forced it to go pay-for-play however they have overcome a huge number of probelems since .

Never heard of Bayond overlord http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif but I remember a Beyond Overlord board game of that name so I assume they have made it into a computer game ... is it first person or otherwise ?
One should remember the difference between a physics model and a physics based model ; Killers' previous game , Warbirds , used a physics based model but not a true physics model and was thus limited in how it performed compared his current work .

One BIG thing that sets WWIIOL appart is the scale : http://gophur.playnet.com/gophur/map.html

They eventually want to model the entire world http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
The games' potential is huge . You really should try it again . I use the same name there so if you do and see my tag say hi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif .

Hakonarson

06-03-2003, 04:16

OK - Beyond Overlord http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It's not a computer version of the board game - it's a quite seperate effort.

It's a "strategy" game - ie a wargame, with a scale of individual tanks and heavy weapons, and squads for infantry. Can be played PBEM, FtF or vs the AI - the publisher is Battlefront, and their page is at www.battlefront.com.

I'm not sure what yuo consider teh difference betwen a physics engien and a physics based engine - in the CM series individual heavy shells (ie enything bigger than a MG) are modeled along their entire flight path until they intersect something - in many cases this means they never hit anythign at all, in other cases you can see shell bursts or impacts off teh edge of the map.

Mr Frost

06-03-2003, 05:00

I can remember reading something about it now {the Overlord game} in a thread related to the physics model in the HQ forums { http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/index.jsp } now you mention it . I might get 'round to trying it oneday .

Sounds like a bit of fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

What amazes me is that WWIIOL is doing such calculations for each round fired for any gun {even pistols} so even a single a Hurricane I {or Pussycanes as I call them because they're so wussy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif} gives the code onehundered such jobs to do in each second {which might mean over a thousand bullets if the pilot just sprays and prays a very long burst bullets in the air at a given moment from just that one plane} and there can be hundreds spawned into just one battle of many on that map all shooting {I love that there is only one map/server} yet the code still manages .
It's no wonder they had trouble given the scale they have implemented it on .

I've even been killed by stray fire whilst minding my business watching a nice dogfight overhead . Somehow I found that very cool : Murphy lives comfortably there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

Divine Wind

06-03-2003, 10:40

I must say your accurate descriptions of both games have made me very intrested in trying both games. Great descriptions Harkonarson and Mr Frost. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

However to play WW2 online i think i would most definatly need a broadband connection wouldnt i? Im only 56k atm but looking to upgrade for the summer

Strategy, military games i play are the Sudden Strike Series, all the Close Combat series, and Empire Earth. All fun games to try, and there is a huge fan base for the games with many mods to install and play.

One last question for Mr Frost. Do you have any idea what system specs you need to run WW2? Thanks in advance.

Mr Frost

06-03-2003, 16:01

WWIIOL minimum system requirements are 600 Mhz or higher {they have a Mac version as well as PC} 256MB RAM {512 much better , especially if you want to fly} , 3D card with 64 MB recomended , DirectSound Compatible audio card {the sound is good enough that I hunt by sound , even when flying sometimes} 56K modem is still used successfully by many players . An optical mouse is a good investment for better infantry play , and a three Axis joystick {there are some reasonable ones available for as little as U.S. $30 or so} or better {I use CH Products Pro Throttle , Pedals and Fighter stick , mind you those were a bit more expensive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif , but then I like to fly} if you want to tank effectively and vital if you want to fly {I think the Microsoft Sidewinders are fairly satisfactory for most players and cheap} .

I'm not sure how they do it , but the game doesn't penalise low FPS like other games . So long as you get 15+ , you can perform as effectively as someone getting 100 {though they will have a prettier image obviously} .

They are still running the free trial offer {free download and a week} to try it out before buying {to get the CD key , the download is the full program , though it will take a while on 56k} which ends June 9th {you would still get the full 7 days trial if you DLed on the 9th} .
Try http://www5.playnet.com/bv....&page=1 (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8801&parent_id=2679684&page=1) or the HQ addy in my previos post as it is linked from the HQ forums also .

Hope that helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

econ21

06-04-2003, 16:36

I confess I keep coming back to the Panzer General games: Panzer General 1, Pacific General, Fantasy, Panzer General 2, People's General. They are quite similar to MTW in combining good historical flavour with considerable abstractions from realism. Also great fun.

I find the more realistic hardcore wargames (eg The Operational Art of War) to be a little unsatisfying nowadays - too much work for rather a small pay-off. Instead, I've gravitated towards role-playing games which share some features - accumulating experience, upgrading equipment etc - with MTW and indeed PG.

Sigurd

06-12-2003, 03:59

Hmm, does WWIIOL feature naval war as well? In other words, is there room for an old ensign on a particular boat?
In addition, how does the command structure work?
Do you have officers planning and leading missions? Is there an overall strategy involving diplomacy and alliance making or do you follow the historical WWII scenario?
You did mention that someone is in charge of development of weapons etc. how does this work?
If this games escalates to a world map scenario there sure would be need for naval combat. The question would then be how to run a battleship…

Nowake

06-12-2003, 10:52

Hark, can you direct me to some sort of adress for this DBAOL? Because I find it very interesting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Brother Derfel

06-12-2003, 11:02

Greetings from another (ex)DBAOLer

I was one of the original mentors (my user name was Marlborough) but I had to leave on account of increasing pressures at home, e.g exams.

I hope to get back to DBAOL soon, so i'll be sending challenges all over the place.

www.dbaol.com used to be the adress, not sure if it still is.

btw, what are the new 3d maps like. I have not downloaded them yet

Nowake

06-13-2003, 07:45

thx, Brother Derfel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Hakonarson

06-15-2003, 02:02

www.dbaol.com is still the address http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

i haven't really noticed the difference in hte maps - I'm there for the game, not the pretties....also my only current game is on "Green Hell", and I don't think it has changed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

monkian

06-16-2003, 12:21

I'm currently playing Empire and hopefully buying Rise of Nations soon

Auxilia

09-12-2003, 19:40

One of my faves at the mo' is Praetorians (Eidos) - forget ANY sense of historical accuracy but it's good fun.

Waay back when, I used to play these:

Age of Sail (the first one) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

Battleground series - Napoleon in Russia and Waterloo - incidentally can ANYONE tell me how to run these in XP??

Great Battles Series - I picked up the 3 in one version (Alexander, Caesar, Hannibal) just before the company went under and wasted hours

Close Combat 1-3 - yes dated but fun...

Panzer General 2 - superb - especially if you tweeked the units with one of the million or so user mods out there.

Michiel de Ruyter

09-12-2003, 21:50

Panzer Campaigns I: Smolensk '41. Take charge of Panzergruppe II and III and the two accompanying armies. Break the Russian lines, cross the Dnepr, and try to get Smolensk, and preferrably Vyazma (IIRC). And ofcourse in the process destroy the various Russian armies. The units are broken down to battalion-level.
Or play the Russian side ofcourse.

Panzer Campaigns II: Normandy '44. Take control of the Allied forces and establish a foothold in fortress Europe. Units can be broken down to companies; The masterscenario lasts untill mid-August. The map stretches from Cherbourg to Falaise. And all units involved at that time will appear (only allied AA units are kept out, to prevent cheating, and improve playability).
Or play the Germans and try to kick them of the beaches.

Panzer Campaigns III: Kharkov '42. The German attempt to destroy the salient south of Kharkov, around Izyum, in order to gain good starting positions for "Operation Blau", the offensive towards Stalingrad and the Caucasus. Yet the Russians had planned a spring offensive using this same salient as the start-off point for the southern pincer in the offensíve to recapture Kharkov. Play the Germans, in an attempt to hold the offensive, and destroy the Russian sailent. Or play the russians, liberate Kharkov and halt the German offensive.

The Panzer Campaigns series has now 9 volumes: Smolensk '41, Normandy '44, Kharkov '42, Tobruk '41, Bulge '44, Korsun '44, Kursk '43, Sicily '43, Market-Garden '44.
It is still expanding. Fanmade chages (mostly in graphics) are available... Many improvements/changes in gameplay are also available for previous volumes through patches.

Europe Universalis II: A strategy game covering the world from 1419 untill 1819. Develop your country, colonize the world, forge alliances, wage war, be a skilled diplomat, and pump up your economy. No tactical battles here... quite challenging.
Again many fan-made mods are available.

On the shelf is Hearts of Iron, covering WW II and a few years before.

Wellington

09-12-2003, 22:06

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 04 2003,10:36)]I confess I keep coming back to the Panzer General games: Panzer General 1, Pacific General, Fantasy, Panzer General 2, People's General. They are quite similar to MTW in combining good historical flavour with considerable abstractions from realism. Also great fun.
Me too

I still play Panzer General 1 and Allied General on occasion - you can't beat a good formula.

magnatz

09-15-2003, 12:18

IL-10 Sturmovick. Excellent WW2 flight simulator, based on the Eastern Front campaigns. You can fly a good variety of fighters and bombers, both Axis and Soviet (including lend-and-lease American and English models).

TheSilverKnight

09-15-2003, 13:39

Cossacks Series

American Conquest

Rise of Nations http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

That's about it. Good warfare games. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Mount Suribachi

09-15-2003, 16:05

Bought EU2 the other week. Hellishly in-depth game, very daunting, only played it a bit.

Used to play Panzer General/Allied General on my PS back in the day.

And wayyyyy back in the day, lets not forget those classics, Arnhem & Desert Rats by the legendary RT Smith (now a programmer for CA).

Scipio

10-01-2003, 01:57

Battlefield 1942 so its not a strategy game but its really good game

Hakonarson

10-02-2003, 04:39

I jsut bought an "old" Battle of Britain game by Electronic Arts (I think) - called, originally enough, Battle of Britain

Great game - 15-20 years ago I used to play a lot of "Fighter Command" (BoB gam,e by SSI) & have missed it ever since - and now I can even slip into the cockpit of hte Spit or Hurri or 109 & do the dogfighting too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

What's more being 3 years od the "new" BoB costs a pittance - NZ$15 - about 3 UKL, or US$9, brand new from a re-publisher, and apparently there's some boxed editions still around - http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3....=006809 (http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=006809)

Ithaskar Fëarindel

10-02-2003, 10:49

Guys historical connections to the Total War series, or mods that are being made for it.

Hakonarson

10-03-2003, 01:45

What about them?

Ithaskar Fëarindel

10-03-2003, 09:22

Forget it then, History is every recorded event not in the presence right. But preferably, you should include TW related games, or atleast base your own observations around them. As you've pointed out Hako, the Monastery is for TW related topics.

Parmenio

10-03-2003, 17:55

I like ‘Sid Meier's Gettysburg’ Partly for the feel of fighting a huge battle, and in particular the way it breaks down the battle into a branching series of historical and speculative tactical scenarios, where the outcome of any one particular engagement determines what kind of scenario you fight next.

It would be great if you could do something like that in Total War.

MrWhipple

10-20-2003, 07:47

Amen and amen, Parmenio, I love Sid's Gettysburg. Also Age of Rifles. (does Hunt the Wumpus on a Heathkit H89 count? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

Auxilia

11-08-2003, 19:31

Quote[/b] (MrWhipple @ Oct. 20 2003,01:47)] Also Age of Rifles.
Can you tell me a little more about this game?

MrWhipple

11-09-2003, 02:46

It is a lot like Sid's Gettsyburg except it covers the period from the Mexican American war to the Boer War.

L`zard

11-09-2003, 02:56

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ May 21 2003,15:22)]DBA evolved into DBM - De Bellis Multitudinous (large battles, battles of the multitudes) that added complexity and more function and is the main figure game I play.
I've seen references to this game from several searchs;

Would be most interested to get into this by way of Napoleonic period.

Used to play Nap/minis, still have mondo rule-sets pertaining to same.

Links?

Cebei

11-09-2003, 02:58

Are there any Europa Universalis fans here? Is it better than MTW? Worth playing?

Hakonarson

11-10-2003, 01:07

Quote[/b] (L`zard @ Nov. 08 2003,19:56)]
Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ May 21 2003,15:22)]DBA evolved into DBM - De Bellis Multitudinous (large battles, battles of the multitudes) that added complexity and more function and is the main figure game I play.
I've seen references to this game from several searchs;

Would be most interested to get into this by way of Napoleonic period.

Used to play Nap/minis, still have mondo rule-sets pertaining to same.

Links?
The author of DBM has written a very high level set of rules for 1700-1915 called "Horse, Foot and Guns" - wach stand of figures represents anything from 500-2000 men depending upon the exact type.

The rules are still in development/play testing, so are available on the Web at http://www.phil-barker.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Contents.htm