View Full Version : Maps, anyone?
Mori Zennousha
05-24-2003, 23:17
hello all...
i have experimented a bit with making my own maps, and was wondering if perhaps anyone might like to take a look at one or two of them and LMK what you think... certainly, i've a long way to go before i'm as skilled as some of you vets around here, but if nothing else, a couple of them are interesting to look at... in fact, there is at least one that, asthetically pleasing as it may be, it's really too tedious for a good battle... also, there are a couple that may be good MP maps, but just confound the AI if you try to play the comp on them... there's a few castle maps, a couple river maps, and several experiments with mountain passes/gaps...
anyway, if there's any interest out there, please LMK...
take it easy,
Z
Sjakihata
05-26-2003, 15:32
Peace brother http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I think you can upload them so everyone is free to download them.
Mori Zennousha
05-26-2003, 20:06
Greetings, Sjakihata Akechi...
thanks for the reply... and yes, i looked into uploading, but didn't want to presume... if you think it's cool to go ahead, i'll put a few of the better ones in a zip and send 'em...
thanks again for the reply,
Z
Mori Zennousha
05-28-2003, 18:27
Hello again Sjakihata Akechi,
as of a few minutes ago, i have uploaded a zip to the Org containing a dozen maps (total size of the zip was 859Kb, titled "Zen_Mappack-01"). Please LMK if there are any problems, or if i did anything incorrectly.
Thanks again for your input,
Z
Mori Zennousha
06-02-2003, 22:16
OK, as of today (06-02-03), i see that my mappack is available for d/l in the "maps compatible with WE/MI" section in the "files and faqs"... That's pretty cool; thanks to the Org powers that be... i know STW has nowhere near the following it once had, but if anyone actually d/l's this pack, i'd love to hear your thoughts on the maps contained within... please LMK if you have any suggestions, criticisms, etc...
thanks in advance,
Z
Konnichiwa Mori Zennousha san,
There are still some people playing STW WE/MI, they'll appreciate this new maps.
I'll try them in MP as soon as possible.
Thanks.
Mori Zennousha
06-03-2003, 22:21
Konnichiwa TosaInu san,
and thank you for taking a moment or two to respond... i see your name all over the Org pages, and i've played several of your maps; as such, i'm honoured by your interest in this post...
briefly, i'm pretty happy with most of the maps in this pack, though i have to concede that i sometimes get more interested in asthetics than in functionality... still, it is my hope that, for the people still playing WE/MI, some of these maps will offer new and interesting battles...
i'm sure you are quite busy, but if you do get a chance to try any of them, i'd be particularly interested in what you thought of them...
thank you again for the reply,
Z
Seemed to have missed you last night Zen and after I had d/l your maps to try out with you as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
will be there again tonight come find me if your around and we can test some of them out MP
have a good day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
Sasaki Kojiro
06-26-2003, 16:21
I've downloaded your maps and would like to try them out in multiplayer. Especially the bridge/castle combined map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
That could be fun with 2:1 koku...
Yes some of them looked "interesting" he he
Any chance of the 3 of us getting together to try them over the weekend? any others included of course http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I promise I wont sing anything from the sound of music on those big hill maps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Konnichiwa Mori Zennousha san,
I've only played your maps in custom.
There are some extremely interesting designs, and the texturing is good. I particularly liked Helms deep, L'espace de forbes and middle-neck.
The pathfinding AI has some problems with Promontory Keep and Fragile. That's mostly due to water. Very steep slopes causes some problems with playabilty: jumping camera and units going where they shouldn't go (?).
Nice work and I'm looking forward to your next pack.
Mori Zennousha
06-26-2003, 18:08
Doumoarigatou, TosaInu san...
and yes, though some are pretty nice to look at, the AI just has fits... in fact, it wasn't 'til i made my own maps that i realized how "dumb" the AI can be L'espace de Forbes is the one that really pulls it all together, but even there, the AI wants to go right over the cliffs, unfortunately (although, i have been working on an historical battle on that map that may take care of some of it)... working on these maps taught me a lot about the AI, deployment zones, and definately textures... i am pleased that you found the texturing to be good; i really took time to try and make everything as fluid as possible...
anyway, i'm very pleased to get your opinions on these maps; coming from one of the premier map-makers in the TW world, it means a lot... i'll let you know when another batch is ready to go out...
Thank you again,
Z
Mori Zennousha
06-26-2003, 18:15
Greetings, Celtlan and Shinano...
well, i must say it surprised me to find 2 other folks that have d/l'ed my maps, especially in one day Thanks, guys, seriously and yes, there are a few i'd love to get into some MP action on... BTW, on Helm's Keep, i think the defender is so well stacked that 2:1 koku is still probably not enough; i've played the AI on it and won when out-manned 4:1, and i think someone really good could do even better...
anyway, it's almost 6:00 GMT, so i'm going to look for you guys in the Foyer... and yes, the weekend is definately a possibility
see y'all soon,
Z
Sasaki Kojiro
06-26-2003, 22:04
So how was the battle on that bridge map?
Mori Zennousha
06-26-2003, 22:08
it was great, very long... tough one to attack
Helms Keep Map
oh boy a campers dream this one lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
A wide river is spanned by a bridge with walls leading to a small bit of land before the entrance of the castle. A second entrance to the castle at the back allows access to the bastion of walls along the river.
Map looks beautiful and as indicated the textures are spot on.
Its definatly not a map for the faint hearted and as a 1v1 is more a challange to see how many of the defenders you can kill before loseing but even so great fun for both sides.
Will report what its like 2v1 when we get to play one.
If you like a REAL challange as an attacker then this one is for you
Dont even bother with this one unless playing 103 stats though as it would be pointless.
attacker routs away in a long stream of men over one point of an extreamly tall steep hill very funny to see
Only problem i saw with the map was a unit of mus (def) routed into the river and sat underwater for about 20 mins with no chance of rallying them.
?????? Scuba men unit?????? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Ideas:
create a custom set of stats for the game to lower missile troups effectiveness to mabey balance game a little more. Im not in favour of this totaly but a thought.
a second small thin bridge like the culvert in LOTR Helms deep.
8 attackers with maximum honour and armour and weapon upgrades on fewer units and a cap of kolu for the defender.
nuclear weapons for attacker
new scuba unit to be created http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
Over all a map I intend to play again as either side.
Mori Zennousha
06-27-2003, 11:38
Doumoarigatou, Celtlan san...
man, that is a far better critique than i had hoped for; thanks for taking the time to write it... that's an interesting note about the scuba muskies... there is a "bug" that allows "scubamen" in bodies of water that are not east-west rivers or a coastline (ie: ponds, rivers that double back on themselves, and rivers that don't connect the east side to the west side) .... i read about it in one of TosaInu's excellent map-making notes (i'm pretty sure it was Tosa's)... that should not happen on Helm's Keep though, since it is a true river map.... strange; i'll check into it...
anyway, thanks again, and i'll see you later on,
Z
Idea for you Zen
dont know if there is a map like this not seen one yet so:
2 mabey 3 rivers north - south with bridges
small hills like the rice paddy looking ones between some of them
aim would be to have a map that although you play north to south you have to take the bridges (enough that its not just a hold one and you win sort of thing though) east to west to get accross map
mabey even comming back on yourself to get over the next bridge.
am i explaing it clearly...... probably not
if i can ill draw a quick sketch or something.
feel free to use it if its useful
Mori Zennousha
06-27-2003, 12:00
well Celtlan, there are unfortunately some problems with the idea (don't get me wrong, i like the concept a lot)... for one thing, the map editor will only allow one river, and to be able to put a bridge across it, it must connect the east side of the map to the west side (north to south rivers will not allow a bridge, i'm afraid)... also, 2 bridges seems to be the max if you want a "stable" map; 3 will work in some situations, but it can be buggy... and finally, deployment zones are a problem; you can't tell the map to put them somewhere specific, unfortunately, so you would have a potential mess on your hands from the start... but i do like the concept... perhaps something similar could be done with a combination of cliffs and enclosure walls; i'll see what can be done... i like the idea of moving east-west, as well...
i'll let you know if i come up w/ something,
Z
Sasaki Kojiro
06-27-2003, 16:11
That bridge map sounds fun, I'll have to try it out soon. Will either of you be online tomorrow at 2:00 or 3:00 GMT? They start showing Wimbledon at 4:00 GMT so I am going to have to find time for games earlier for the next week or so.
Mori Zennousha
06-27-2003, 16:26
2:00 or 3:00 GMT, eh?... let's see, that would be 10:00 to 11:00 EDT, i think... short answer: probably...
the long answer involves whatever may go down tonight... not that i'm some "wild and crazy guy" or anything, but if i go out, i tend to stay out late... like, really late... or early, depending on how you look at it (heh, heh)...
but, chances are i will be there... i will make an effort to do so, even if i'm hurting (heh, heh)...
so, who are your favorites to win Wimbledon?
later,
Z
Tennis over Shogun????????????????
oh my
quick 10cc of Honour doctor
seriously will try for 2pm gmt more likely 3pm gmt and definatly 4pm gmt
Tim hennman to win .......
well ok go down fighting his honour intact (mabey)
ok well to be beaten by some unknown
errm yes well.... Go TIM
if we dont manage this weekend im available till later in the evenings next week as have free reign on my own.
im sure we can get something together
oh just realised i need to be there really at present as neither of you can host... hope youll understand ill do my best but other commitments early on may delay me
Mori Zennousha
06-27-2003, 20:08
hey Celtlan...
yeah, the time will be tough for me too, but i'll try to make it... definately by 3:00 or 4:00 GMT...
Tim Hennman, eh? should have guessed that
sorry 'bout the game earlier; that guy was something else, neh? but the other guy, Notsuntzu... what a great name took me a sec to "get it"...
ok, i'll see you tomorrow, then,
Z
Sasaki Kojiro
06-28-2003, 00:41
This thread is going a little off-topic... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
I'm hoping for Agassi to win the men's and Henin to win the women's. It's a pity Ivanesivich isn't playing this year http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif .
Anyhow, hope to see you tomorrow.
L'espace de forbes Map
Ok get your mountain climbing boots ready cos your going to probably need them with this one.
(Talking from defenders map view) Extreamly steep mountain ridge ^ seperates the two deployment zones with the defender just about being able to deploy on the top of it. the east side of the ridge stops to allow a second ridge in line with first to form a deep valley which goes back west into the defenders deplyment zone. The second ridge is also very steep so this makes it a real decision to either go over first ridge or up valley. There is another choice however as there is a pass to the far east hand side of the second ridge that allows you to travel behind the 2nd ridge and back into the defenders deployment zone from the rear.
Map has plenty of tactical options for plan of attack to keep the defender guessing as hills stop line of sight so units disapear off map (Use it)
Looks good astheticly (sp?) but impassable areas make movement sometimes difficult to get units where you want them. Impassable areas make sense though so I cant call it a real problem.
No suggestions for improvemnts.
The sort of map that you will want to play both sides and I can imagine it as being good for 2v2. Not sure it would work with more than that as it would get too cloged up in valleys although that could make for some fun situations as well.
I liked it. Probably more balanced than Helms Keep. UNit choice here will be vital.
Helms Keep map 2v1
Much honour goes to Mori Zennousha but Shinano and I managed to take the keep
It was a rip roaring battle I can tell you. Shinano lead the opening charge and had overall command of our forces so much of the credit goes to his generalship. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Great fun was had by all I think.
Special citation goes to that magic Kensi of Zen's would took on the entire remaining armys at the end and would just not die He decimated unit after unit untill everyone made a tactical withdrawal and my unit of Mus shot him down (Their only kill all battle).
Thank you both for a very enjoyable hour 30 minuits. I look forward to it again.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif
If anyone else wants to try out these maps with us you are welcome to come along. Just let us know that you have the maps when you see us online.
Mori Zennousha
07-01-2003, 23:13
Konnichiwa, Celtlan and Mimesaka...
this was indeed an epic battle... very long with wave upon wave of attackers getting turned back, but not before doing thier damage... eventually, out of ammo and decimated, my men were worn down, and the keep fell... still, like you said Celtlan, my kensai general hung on for a long time... just for the heck of it, here are his final stats from the logfile reader:
final honour = 6 (started at 4)
weapon = 0
armor = 3
friendly kills = 0
Total Kills = 117
now that's one tough little bugger, no? he killed more than any other single unit of 60 men in my army (next closest was 80 kills by a unit of musketeers)... amazing... imagine if they came in units of 2
anyway, thanks again for another thrilling battle, m8's... looking forward to the next one...
Sayonara,
Z
*bows*
Sasaki Kojiro
07-01-2003, 23:19
117 is amazing... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif I've never seen that many for a kensai before. Just out of curiosity how many freindly fire casualties did you have?
Mori Zennousha
07-02-2003, 01:13
well, friendly fire was just as amazing, in a manner of speaking... too bad all these couldn't have been against you guys... may have had a different outcome...
4 units of Archers (kills [friendly kills]):
1) 51 [6]
2) 28 [17]
3) 57 [19]
4) 32 [49] (yikes, that's pretty bad)
2 units of Arq's:
1) 53 [12]
2) 49 [52] (that's pretty bad too)
3 units of Musketeers:
1) 31 [14]
2) 65 [26]
3) 80 [112] (yes, 112 friendly kills... that's just terrible)
... for a grand total of 307 friendly kills
some interesting (and depressing) stats about this battle:
Mimesaka, you killed 75 of my men total; at 307 friendly kills, i dispatched just over 4X as many of my own men as you did
i killed 329 of your men Mimesaka, only 22 more than i killed of my own and of Celtlan's i killed 356 men, only 49 more than i killed of my own... that's pathetic
the worst of all may be this: my total of enemy kills was 685... plus the 307 friendly kills = 992 kills total... of the 992 killed by my men, almost 31% were my own men 31% can't win like that
needless to say, this battle will have me thinking about friendly fire for some time to come thanks again, m8's; i look forward to trying this again (maybe i'll just kill all of my guys next time and spare us the drama)
see you guys soon,
Z
Sasaki Kojiro
07-02-2003, 01:59
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
307 freindly fire is pretty bad...I knew it had to be alot but I had no idea it was that many. Still you killed quite a few more of our men with those units. I'd like a chance to defend on that map sometime.
117 kills with that Kensi.... im not surprised and then 2 rounds of muskets shooting and hes toast. Compare that to the 6 or was it 5 Kensi we sent in who seemed to not do very much at all. Oh I see now all those gun powder units defending shot our Kensi down easily.
I hate friendly fire kills. Its very hard to prevent this with so many gun units.
Im up for attacking again Shinano so will be happy to pit my whits against you defending:)
(at least cav archers wont be as much of a factor if your defending http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif ) ( I hope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )
Sasaki Kojiro
07-03-2003, 00:13
Well, even though I lost at least I managed to reduce freindly fire casaulties to a mere 18 men. Perhaps if it had not been raining my strategy would have been more succesful.
*Holds hands up in acceptance*
Yes I agree Shinano. I had to take the rain with bright patches when it came up.
Im sure you would have taken me apart in a fine day with your strategy, it was a good one. I will be happy to replay game in fine weather for you to try it out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
*Bows to Honourable opponent*
Sasaki Kojiro
07-03-2003, 14:51
Yes indeed...I didn't mean to sound bitter about the weather at all. I just hadn't gotten over the shock of seeing two units of muskets fire 3 volleys each into a unit of warrior monks and kill only 11 men. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
On the whole, it was a great battle and I would be happy to fight on that map again sometime.
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