What units do you use?

[jakester]

I am sure this has been talked about before. I did an honest search and didn't see it. It's just pretty amazing the different variations and techniques I have seen discussed so far. How do you folks typically set up your army in the S.P. campaign? I'm just curious to see the different strategies. I understand if you play multi player and do not wish to share this information.

For example I usually play England, my typical army consists of:

4 Longbowmen, 2 Calvary, 2 Billmen, 1 or 2 Gallowglasses, 1 or 2 Feudal Sergeants, the rest CMAA.

The longbowmen is obvious, to have a ranged attack. Dead center right in front of the infantry line. At least 1 Calvary unit on each far side, to protect the flanks and attack other Calvary. 1 billmen unit to each end of the infantry line, for Calvary defense. Gallowglasses hidden if possible, either case behind the infantry line and off to one side for a clear charge and assisting attack. The feudal sergeants in the center of the infantry line. The CMAAs on either side of the feudal sergeants, completing the line.

[ichi]

Jake:

A lot of folks won't post their ideas as they will be concerned that others will take advantage of themin battle or make fun of them. So I'll put my ideas on the table, losing a little, but hopefully the new folks can see one method. Also, maybe the true pros can tell me how to improve on my basic design.

Everyone serves a purpose, even as a bad example I'm not saying this is a good way, but what I do:

Spanish, Late

KoSantiago =Gen
4 Lancers (set to 3 deep)
3 Pavs (set to 2 deep, hold pos/hold form)
4 OFS (valored up, set to 3-4 deep)
rest are a combo of CMAA, FFK, Halbs, MilSarg, ?

----PAV---- ---- PAV---- ----PAV-----
---OFS--- ---OFS--- ---OFS--- ---OFS---
HALB CMAA CMAA MilSarg
KoS
LANC LANC LANC LANC


Byz, High
Kat = Gen
4 Pron Allag (set 3 deep)
3 Pavs (set 2 deep, Hold Pos/Hold Form)
4 Byz Inf (valor 4, set 4 deep)
4 VG

----PAV---- ---- PAV---- ----PAV-----
--ByzInf-- --ByzInf-- --ByzInf-- --ByzInf--
VG VG VG VG
KAT
PA PA PA PA

So the idea is, Pavs out front, Heavy Inf in a line, w/ axe/sword/other to hold center or flank, Cav to flank or protect Pavs.

There's a million other ways.

Wha d'ya think?

ichi

[Heraclius]

Byzantine defence mostly on a hill

4 byzantine infantry, 1 VG, 2 Trebizond archers, 1 Byzantine cavalry, 1 horse archer, 2 kats, 2 pronoiai, 2 spearmen (of any kind) and 1 assorted general unit

Horse Archers------------Byzantine Cavalry

Trebizond Archers--------------Trebizond Archers
ByzInf------ByzInf--------ByznInf-------Byzinf

Spearmen Vg Spearmen

Kat and Pro General Kat and Pro


and byzantine attack 5 Byz inf, 2 VG, 2 Spearmen, 1 trebizond archer, 1 horse archer, 1 byzcav, 2 kat, 2 pro


Horse Archers--------------------------Byzantine Cavalry
Trebizond Archers

ByzInf-----ByzInf-----ByzInf-----ByzInf-----ByzInf

Spearmen---------VG-------------Spearmen

and I send my cavalry way around the flank (two on each side) and hit them in the rear once I've engaged them with infantry. That is my standard style for Byzantine offence and defence with a perfect full army but, as I'm sure you know, it hardly is that easy.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Sir Robin]

I really don't have a particular OOB.

With VI the Byzantine Lancers have become a new favorite for me.

I aim for at least two units of light/medium cavalry on the flanks, four units of infantry to hold the center, and two to four units of archers to spread across the front. Behind the infantry I'll place one or two heavy cavalry to plug or exploit gaps as the battle develops.

Depends on whats available though and also who I am fighting.

Since I am a Byz-Fan I spend alot of time fighting the turks and egyptians. The egyptian AI tends to have lots of spearmen. While the turk AI tends to have lots of horse archers.

Their armies also tend to be alot faster and lighter than catholic armies so my tactics are more aimed at manuever.

I still remember how badly I got creamed the first time I faced off against the Germans as the Byz. Came down to a simple slug fest.

[jakester]

I know what you're saying ichi, but it's always cool to get fresh ideas as well. I like the setup you have. When I have my longbows out front, they are skirmish. I usually try to back them out to the sides and then move the infantry line up. The extra defense of the Pavs must lock up the front line pretty quick if they set to hold ground. I think the units you're using will probably last a while longer under direct assault then mine. Maybe even quite a bit longer. I didn't realize the Pavs were that robust. I'm used to the longbowmen, so I try to avoid any melee at all with them. I'll have to see how maybe 2 pavs out in front of 2 longbows will work.

Like you said Heraclius, it's never that easy to pull off that flank attack, but those kataphraks must make some delightful carnage when it does. That's the point where my infantry pull out the white flag and gleefully skip off the field, leaving a trail of pee behind. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I agree about the Egyptians, they are down right nasty to fight against. I had a rude awakening with their calvary the other day. I don't remember offhand if it was the ghulam or mamluk, I do remember it said Bonus versus armored units and they really meant it this time. I sent 3 units of chiv calvary charging. First one died, second one routed and third had like 10 left. They finally finished them off with some infantry help. It's a pretty nasty surprise at the beginning of the battle. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I figured I would just overwhelm them, apparently they had different plans. The desert fighting seems to be the toughest part of the conquest for me. The light army concept might be pretty cool to try for a change.

[Balamir]

Ah a good way of spying eh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I will tell you mine anyways
you still have to note that Im an attacker and Im nothing at defence. What can I say, Im the son of my turkish ancestors hehe


Spanish


PAVS--PAVS--PAVS
ALAN MERC. ALAN MERC.

HALBS--CMAA--CMAA-CMAA--CMAA--HALBS

LANC-LANC GENERAL LANC-LANC


plan:pavs are far away from the foot soldiers. alans have 2 jobs 1) protect pavs by discouraging the enemy cav to attack
2) Threaten the enemy pavs and seek an opportunity to slaughter them .

halbs mostly stay behind and wait for a chance to meet the enemy knights, CMAA are going to stay clear of knights and attack the enemy rank. lancers: they will challenge enemy cav and flank the enemy units. If the player is foolish enough to select his gen as a weak foot unit or swordsman, lancers will go and say hi to his gen. If you have the time you can give the lancers a tour around the whole rear of the enemy before charging one. that will give the enemy a moral fall dramatically and they may rout before you charge them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Gen stays or attacks a location where I am sure he wont lose. That can save the day. Alans are mostly sacrificed before the battle ends. If they arent, they can pursue enemy routers. Pavs will move and avoid pav fight. They will try and shoot the enemy infantry. That decreases their morale and costs nothing really, sometimes I shoot their pavs though because they can be dangerous. Depends on the opponent. after the armies have collided, the pavs will shoot the gen, who nearly always stays at the back doing nothing.

In my army, cav is everything. I cant fight without cav ,thats my handicap, so if you're against me, you better get some anti cavs. I have pavs frankly but I need to get them because its the only way to counter the enemy pavs. I never ever take cannons. No matter how many man a cannon shoots, its still a loss of an average of 60 men and that is tragic. they are useless in attack because the enemy is mostly far away and the artillery will have terrible accuracy.

A simple plan really, My plan for the turks are more interesting but I'll stop this post here so that you can take a brake, and my fingers can too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif phew, that was hard work now you know my secrets too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif lol

Cheers

[Beirut]

One to three cavalry.
Six to eight Pikemen.
Four to six lonbowmen.
One or two cannon (snipers for the enemy King)
One or two armoured infantry for manuever.

English defense. Good results.

[Richard the Lionheart]

I don't always have a set army as it depends where I am, if im under attack i tend to have a few archers, some infantry, a couple groups of pikemen or spearmen to slow down the enemy's cavalry and then a few cavalry for myself to mop up the fleeing army.
If I'm on the attack i take out the archers and replace them with either more infantry or cavalry.

[Gregoshi]

For SP, I don't have a set army I use. When the game gets to the point where you have more than 16 units, I try to get some semblence of balance in the initial 16 units but it really depends upon what I think will get the job done for that battle.

For MP, I don't have set armies either. I go with whatever units peak my interest during setup. I tend to stay away from must have fad units like the pav arbs in MTW and guns in STW.

Basically, I want my TW experience to be an exercise in creative expression rather than plug in a set army and press the calculate button. Of course, I rarely win in MP that way, but I still enjoy myself.

[Balamir]

I just thought I might have brought this toppic up back in to the hot line.

This time I want to tell about my second tactic. Warning: This one doesnt work unless the conditions are perfect.

Turks: I had heard about this tactic turks were using in the past. It is about spreading out and then circling the enemy in and destroying them. It worked. So here's what I do.


I chose turks. I got about 6 janisssary inf ( the ones that can shoot and fight) and got 4 jhi 1 naptha 3 khwarazmian cav. 2 ghazis with 4 val 3 wep. thats how ghazis work , I found out.

we were the attackers. I got my army in 2 line formation. jhis on the front line, ghazis at their right naptha behind them. then on their a bit far left I got 6 jannissary inf in a single line. and on their left I got 3 khwarazmians, and I made this look like a 1/3 circle. I marched all my men. the guy decided he would attack my janissary inf with his cav. he did and I got 6 jan inf on his horses right away. then I ordered attack with my jhi &ghazis. they attacked and as soon as they charged I closed the janissary inf to the enemy's back.when he tried to outflank the
janissary inf, I charged my khwarazmians and they killed the enemy's left out cav. and as soon as my napthas had one shot at the enemy, they started fleeing the field http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif It was a nice battle, Im proud of my ancestors really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ShadesWolf]

Welcome jakester http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

For me it depends what faction/ era im playing in....

-Byzantine



Trez-----Trez--Trez--Trez-----Trez
ByzInf------ByzInf--------ByznInf-------Byzinf
VG VG(gen) VG

Pro An----Kats Pro An----Kats
Byzan Cav Byzan Cav

This works better if you are attacking......

Basically send both squad of cav onto each of the enemy flanks, and start the units of Byzan Cav shooting arrows into the enemy.

advance the infantry units, so that the archers engage the enemy, if the enemy allows use all arrow then charge into them, if they advance drop the archers behind the Byzan Inf so they can continue to shoot, attempt to engage with VG on the flanks and Byzan infantry in fronts. Keep general at back until as late a possible so not to temp him into being killed, but it battle is going bad use him to attack

Finally charge cav into rear of the enemy lines.....

this will work well against most factions, but a word of warning the heavy can will tire VERY quickly, so be careful with them, you have been warned.....

[econ21]

For SP as English on early, I tend to fight defensively relying on a big shieldwall of Feudal Sergeants backed by archers to hold the enemy and then flank them:

FS FS FS
FS LBW LBW LBW FS
Highland General Highland
Hobilars Cat Cat Cat Hobilars

The 3 LBWs are bribed Welsh longbows, nowadays in wedge (used to be 3 line loose but that is hard to maneouvre). The 3 catapults are more for show - they are not really worth the slots, but are fun to watch. I really should use more swords - FMAA or more highlanders - on the flanks. If I have knights, they would replace hobilars. Gallowglasses are preferred over highlanders if available.

Typically against the AI, this will do fine: at least pre-VI, it seldom closed in a coordinated way. I only hit problems if I have a weak leader in which case low morale can cause a precipitous collapse.

I would not dream of trying this (or anything else&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif in MP.

[The_Emperor]

My English Army Consists of...

4 or 5 Spear Units
4 Longbow/Arb units
4 or 5 Cavalry (Mixed)
And about 3 men At Arms Units.

The Siege weapons follow behind that full stack in groups of about 4.