Is there any way to....??

[+DOC+]

Hi guys,

here's a simple question for the mod-men of the ORG >>>

Is there any way to mod units so that the AI will not use them in Skirmish mode, but rather in hold formation or engage in melee??

For instance, for units like handgunners and Spanish jinetes i'm hoping i can get the AI to use them on engage in melee rather than the rather useless skirmish option. Both these units are fairly handy in melee and the skirmishing mode really doesn't suit their usage. Either it means they never throw/fire their projectiles or they turn their backs into oncoming cavalry resulting in mass slaughter. In fact i think skirmishing mode for a lot of units is useless, especially javeliners and naptha bombers per se.

[WesW]

I think the only way to get them out of skirmish mode is to set their ammo to zero.

[Skomatth]

Theres a column in the unit stats were each unit gets a value for specific tasks like "main body" "flanking force" defender etc. You could try changing those but thats as much as I know.

[Lord Krazy]

If you make them DISCIPLINED

in the prod11 in column AJ that will help.

But all range units default to skirmish.

Not nice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

LK

[+DOC+]

What effect on the battlefield does making them disciplined do Lord K?

Ta

[cugel]

I noticed this with the Patrician Mod and it was the bane of that mod. I finally stopped playing it because there were so many pilum/javelin throwing units that the AI was constantly running away with it's line infantry Naturally they would get immediately slaughtered as they turned their backs to my units. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

I would really like to know what we can do about this too I thought that "disciplined" only made troops more likely to rally after they rout. (Of course I assumed that because of the "drill dojo" in Shogun and the presence of the military academy in MTW which gives +1 discipline (I think). So I thought that it was the same thing. If LK could instruct us regarding this it would be nice. Is there any way to get skirmishers out of their "default" setting, without depriving them of ammo. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[pdoan8]

Have you try to play around with the Unit Class setting in column 18? I had fairly good result for the AI Almughavars.

Default setting is "WEAK"

I changed to "DEFENDER, SPEAR, ANTI_SPEAR"

If my guess is correct, the result for some of the classes are:

DEFENDER: most of the Spear/Polearm units have this. Will this make them hold formation?

SPEAR: doesn't really mean these units must have spears. Instead, the default is for the AI to use against Cav, mainly defensive.

STRONG: these units will charge or attack Cav. Mainly, offensive.

AMBUSH: most likely for flanking, not really ambush, but will seek opportunity to catch the enemy off guard. Most of mounted units are in this class.

MISSILE: these units have range weapons. Just to remind the AI to bring some range units.

ANTI_SPEAR: these are range units and will engage the enemy from a distance, mainly against spears.

ATTACKER: main melee units.

WEAK: these units will avoid frontal or direct melee assault (one vs one head on), especially against stronger units.

ANTI_MISSILE: these are mounted units. Will avoid stronger opponent but will charge weaker ones, chasing missile units.

ANTI_INFANTRY: these units have good melee and may have AP melee weapon and good charge bonus. Heavy/Medium cav are in this class.

CAVALRY: they are Cav (what else can I say). Anyway, they will engage other Cav, infantry and any non spear/polearm units.

These are based on the MTW v1.1 (not VI). I will try to look at the VI file tonight to see if there is any new class.

Edit: also, I change the prefer number of row (column 43) for most missile units. Foot archers to 3, mounted archer to 2, jav to 3, Pav Arb/xbow to 2.

[+DOC+]

pdoan, some interesting stuff there.

Can you clarify on what you mean by had some success with Almughavars...?

I was udner the impression that these labels were for the AI set formations and placing their units correctly into formation, i.e. numbers 1-9 on keypad. You know, where the archers are labelled blue, cavalry red and infantry green (can't remember exact colours)?

However, i haven't myself done any testing regarding these, hence i was asking you about your Almughavars. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Lets just say they do work to some extent, would changing all potentially useful offensive missile troops from "weak" to "defender or "attacker" not lead to unbalanced AI armies or slightly odd battlefield strategies??

[+DOC+]

Also, Spanish Jinetes are labelled as ATTACKER,AMBUSH,ANTI_MISSILE,CAVALRY and they skirmish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[pdoan8]

OK. In my last Turkisk campaign. In a battle against the Spanish. 2 Almughavars (valour 4) are on my flank, so I use 1 JHI to engage them and 1 AHC for a flanking attempt. Surprisingly, the Almughavars did not skirmish. Both stay in their formation, unload 2-3 rounds on my JHI before I can reach them. They stay in melee but were destroyed by my JHI and AHC. So, it could work. Might have been effected by the high valour, too.

About the Jinetes: notice that they have "AMBUSH" class. Add to that "MISSILE" class. Without any change, they won't stay if enemy melee get close. But if your foot missile near them and unprotected, they might charge. As I said, AMBUSH doesn't really means ambush where the enemy can't see them. It mean "seeking opportunity" to attack unprotected weaker enemy.

I will try taking away the "AMBUSH" to see it would effect anything. However, don't take my words for it. It's only something that I recently trying to tweak. Things don't always work as I thought.

[cugel]

pdoan8, do you mean to suggest that taking "AMBUSH" away from them will result in their not remaining in skirmish mode when faced by infantry (spear) or other cavalry? In that case do they fire their javelins and then charge (probably what we would want them to do is maneuver for a flank or rear and THEN charge).

Those of us trying to design the LOTR mod are having this problem, that the proposed Rohirrim cavalry (might) carry javelins, but that would leave them in skirmish mode most of the time. Not good for the AI, so this is important.

I notice that Mongol Horse archers always skirmish away from infantry or charging cavalry, unless you pursue them too far into the plain. Then they try to swarm attack a flank or rear of your heavy cavalry as they try to return to position. I've had careless chivalric knight units wiped out in this fashion. What influences the AI's decision to turn and fight in these instances? Is it simply my cavalry presenting a flank or rear to them? Some discussion on these points would be helpful. The GoldenHordeHorseArchers have "ATTACKER, AMBUSH, MISSILE,STRONG, ANTI_MISSILE, CAVALRY".