The Location of the New Ruler

[HindSight2020]

I've always played the conquer/campaign version of MTW/VI. A friend encouraged me to play a GA campaign. So, since I have a lot of success as Egypt, I decided to begin with an Egyptian GA campaign. Things were going well until ...

I accepted an alliance with the English. When I attacked Portugal, they joined in with a bigger army. (I didn't need the help.) Then they took over the province, because they had a larger army. Fine. (Though another word beginning with "f" may better fit here.)

About 15-20 years later, the English sunk one of ships and started a Crusade against me. I annihilated them in Portugal, took Navarre, and attacked Aquitaine. And I sunk most of their ships. They sallied forth from the castle in Aquitaine, and the Sicilians (God bless 'em) joined in with the English. I defeated their combined army (though they had a near 2-1 advantage and killed about 2200 men).

So now I had to deal with the Sicilian navy. It was about that time that my Sultan died. The old Sultan was having a great time in Egypt with his harem, and all of the other new Sultans would appear in Egypt. I just left them there, since they had seen a lot of action when they were prince and heir.

I've heard that there are theories of why a new ruler appears in a certain province, and that some of them involve development of provinces. Egypt has a Citadel and a Dockyard. It is the most developed piece of land in the game. The new Sultan arrived in Morocco. Morocco has a Castle and a Shipwright. It is not built up as near to the level as in Egypt. Of course, I had to deal with loyalty issues because of the blockades of the stinking Sicilians.

My question is: Why Morocco? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Dîn-Heru]

Perhaps it has something to do with the location of the heir before the death of the sultan if there was no way for him to get to Egypt, then perhaps he went to the most developed province near him.

[A.Saturnus]

I think it`s pretty much random. I had heirs appear in provinces that were not developed at all, hadn`t even a palace and the heir wasn`t there before becoming king.

[The_Emperor]

yeah I had a few English kings appear in Aquitaine rather than Wessex.

Tis strange isn't it?

[HindSight2020]

Quote[/b] ]Perhaps it has something to do with the location of the heir before the death of the sultan if there was no way for him to get to Egypt, then perhaps he went to the most developed province near him.

Your comment made me think. Perhaps it has something the location of the heir and the location of all of the Sicilian ships who were blockading a way for the ruler to get back to Egypt. That makes sense. The heir was somewhere on the Iberian peninsula. He would have appeared in Egypt if the way hadn't been blockaded. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Gregoshi]

Can you go back to a save from the turn the Sultan died and survey the situation more closely? Just a thought.

[HindSight2020]

I don't save my position often enough, so I probably wouldn't be able to go back. I've been told http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif that restarting from a saved position to redo and avoid a mistake is the wimp's way out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif

[Gregoshi]

I didn't mean to "wimp out" when I suggested going back to a save, I meant it just to try to determine what happened when the crown was passed since you know it is an event that is on the verge of happening.

[Papewaio]

I thought the developed province was the one with the highest armoury/metalsmith combination suitable to create Ghulams/Knights... so did Morocco have the Royal Court and not Eygpt?

[HindSight2020]

I've never heard that the armorer/metalsmith combo was the key, and I'm having a hard time trying to understand why they would program it that way.

The only province with a Royal Court was Egypt. I was building armorers here and there, but I'm not sure about the metalsmith part. I'd have to check.

[pdoan8]

I am pretty sure that the armourer and the metalsmith won't have any effect, neither the location of the heir before the King die. It isn't always the most developed or the best province, but well developed.

The buildings that in question are:

- Royal Court.
- Grand Mosque and Cathedral.
- The lesser important are: Military College and other unique buildings.
- And oftenly, it's a well developed coastal province with one or more of the above buildings.

In my Danish campaign, all new Kings appear in Denmark where I have most of the unique buildings (except the Admiralty which is in Sweden) and the first Royal Court that I built. Later, I capture 2 Cathedral of the Novgorod, 1 in Novgorod and 1 in Smolensk, but new Kings still appear in Denmark for the whole campaign

In my Spanish campaign where all new Kings appear in Castile where I had all of the unique buildings and the first Royal Court for the whole campaign.

In my Turkish campaign, all new Sultans appear in Rum where I have most of the unique buildings (except Admiralty which is in Lesser Armenia) and the first Royal Court. However, after I capture Jerusalem from the Egyptian, all new Sultans appear there. In Jerusalem, the Egyptian had the Grand Mosque and Royal Court. Later, I capture 2 more Grand Mosque from the Almohad, 1 in Morocco and 1 in Ile de France, but new Sultans still appear in Jerusalem.

[andrewt]

My Saxon campaign pokes a lot of holes in people's theories. West Seaxe has the most unique buildings while Sumorseate has the highest armor/metalsmith combo and has a port and other stuff. My king spawns in Cerniu/Defnas (not sure, it's the westernmost southern province west of Sumorseate. It doesn't have anything that Sumorseate has and is more lightly developed. In fact, the king started spawning there after I conquered it from the Welsh, even before I had any metalsmith or armorer there while Sumorseate already had a few. My cathedral was also in West Seaxe.

[pdoan8]

Haha. These are all unproven theories. Trying to make sense out of things that don't really make any sense.

Anyway, it's good to hear what others think. May be from all of these "unproven theories", we could find one fairly reasonable answer.

In my Irish campaign, my new Kings spawn in the first province that I captured from another faction (not rebel). It was the one north of the capitol province and didn't have any major improvement over the capitol (didn't even have the armourer and and the metalsmith) except the port.

[HindSight2020]

I had an Admiralty and a Grand Mosque and a Castle in Egypt. The new Sultan appeared in Morocco where I only had a Keep and a Mosque. The seas were blockaded between the Iberian peninsula and Egypt. That's the only thing I can figure out that might have affected anything. I'll get a list of the buildings in each and post them.

[HindSight2020]

I know that it has been a long time, so I don't know if anyone is still interested. But here is the run-down of what I had in Morocco and what I had in Egypt.

Egypt: Citadel, Spearmaker, Town Watch, Royal Palace, Chancellory, Admiralty, Mosque, Grand Mosque, Border Fort.

Morocco: Castle, Armorer, Spearmaker's Workshop, Mosque, Town Guard, Trading Post, Border Fort.

[Alrowan]

its where the highst upgrades are that affect the kings unit. Mosqes/Cathederals boost morale while blacksmiths and such bost weapons. My bet is that the king spawns where the best unit will be produced. Id like to see some experiments to confirm it

[econ21]

Hindsight2020 - I think Alrowan is right. Notice that in your case only Morocco had the armourer, which would benefit the royal knights. I am a little hazy but maybe the Grand Mosque in Egypt would give higher morale than just the Mosque in Morocco, but I guess the AI (like me) would prefer a +1 shield to a further +2 morale.

[Magraev]

It's not based on armor and weapons only. My latest sicilian king spawned on sardinia and not on sicily as the ones before. The one thing I have on sardinia that I dont have in sicily is monestary and reliqiary (sp). The armory was 3 grades worse (black not gold). So I'm guessing morale bonuses play a part too,

[Sainika]

I think that the location of a new king is connected with the location of heirs AND the unique builgings. In my Turkish campaign my king always appeared in Rum until I conquered Constantinople. Then I built grand mosque in Rum and my king began to appear in Rum again. Then I destroyed GM in Rum and built it in Nicaea and my kings began their reign in Nicaea.
In Danish campaign my kings always appear in Denmark even when it was less developed than Sweden for example.
As Russian my kings appeared both in Novgorod and Moscovia but never somewhere else.
I think that in your case the main reason why your new king appeares in Morocco was your war with Sicilians. In order to have the best access to all your provinces (because of loyalty) Morocco became the only worthy province where your heir could reach quickly and the loyalty didn't reduce.

[Demon of Light]

Anyone here know the story of the 9 blind men trying to describe an elephant?

[Sainika]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[GilJaysmith]

It's the province with the highest number of buildings, whatever they are. If there's a tie it's the last such region in the faction's list.

[econ21]

Thanks, Gil. Looks like someone finally snapped a picture of that elephant, Demon of Light

But Hindsight2020, are you sure about your two provinces - it seems Morocco had less buildings than Egypt. Reminds me of the classic "That may work in practice, but does it work in theory?"

[barocca]

and your heirs appear in the province your king was in during the turn BEFORE the heir comes of age
- so keep an eye on your kids, and make sure the king is not moving too much,
I have lost heirs as Viking because they appeared in provinces i had abandonded after raiding, and i moved my fleet away as well...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif beheaded on a cold english beach - what a way to die...

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ June 12 2003,09:58)]It's the province with the highest number of buildings, whatever they are. If there's a tie it's the last such region in the faction's list.
Thanks, Gil. Every time I thought I had it figured out, the dude would pop up in some mediocre castle I had just captured...turns out the backwater had a lot of useless agent buildings and stuff it really didn't need. Now I will start "wasting time" and money building useless buildings in my best provinces (the ones with metalsmiths and armourers) or destroy unwanted buildings in other regions that could snag my new kings.

[Gregoshi]

That logic has some potential for a nasty surprise if you use the auto-build and let the governors decide what to build. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Of course, how many people actually give their governors that much autonomy?

[MizuKokami]

question....would an upgraded spearmaker be counted as two buildings, or just one?