View Full Version : Creative Assembly GIL, please DON'T disable -IAN for SP
Please mate, take care in any decision to be made with regards to the command -ian.
Not only is it great for enhancing SP battles in overly hilly and forested maps, it's also a modder's dream come true. If you removed it, it would only be a backward step in so far as the two points just mentioned.
For MP however, i can see the potential problems -ian could create amongst dishonest players and with overall MP gameplay. If CA were going to disable it, is there any way this could be done solely from a MP perspective?
I'd hate to see a bad decision made here. Longevity with MTW relies on both a healthy modding and online community.
Thanks
Doc
Yeah it is very useful in SP on the woodiest maps. A bit unfair though in MP (unless everyone has it on).
FesterShinetop
06-04-2003, 19:46
Hmmm, I have no idea what you guys are talking about http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Could you explain??? PLease http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif
GilJaysmith
06-04-2003, 23:36
Opinions noted.
If you don't know what this is about, don't investigate further, lest your mind be polluted :)
Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
scsscsfanfan
06-05-2003, 02:04
Same here, I have no idea, but I still wants to know, especially - [QUOTE]Yeah it is very useful in SP on the woodiest maps.
What dose this mean?
Please explain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
yes gil, it is an abhored thing you have done to subject and corrupt many with this.. i have never tried and never will
FesterShinetop
06-05-2003, 02:08
Oh no, don't get all mysterious... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif Just tell http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif
Skomatth
06-05-2003, 02:17
is there a way it could be enabled only for sp?
Brutal DLX
06-05-2003, 07:33
Noted? So that means you guys are actually working on a patch? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
It's amazing that we actually have to ask for a patch.
IIRC the answer is NO PATCH. Hope I'm proven wrong.
Gil also stated in a previous thread that the choices are to leave it as it is or remove the switch. Since SP is the main market, I would guess it will be left as it is. The MP crowd can't seem to agree to abide by a rule simply not to use the switch.
The MP crowd looks more and more dead to me anyway..
CBR
CBR what other games do you play online ?
Hm that pretty off topic Sinan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I have played a bit Tactical ops: Assault on terror but gotten tired of all the snipers lately. Only game that really interests me is MTW (MP)
CBR
It is a bit off topic, but I think we need to drop MTW MP.
Still too buggy to make it worth the time, usually. The split foyer does not help.
Only time I play MTW MP now is when I have a battle "date".
Kraellin
06-05-2003, 13:28
i've used the -ian switch in mp and i still lose, so i dont think it's all that critical. you still dont see invisible units like the welsh bandits or anything. this is actually the mode i wish we'd had from the beginning if you're going to allow anything but the general's point of view.
what i mostly find it useful for is keeping my units from scattering so badly, not in seeing any extra information about the enemy. i get more control of my own units, which is the part i like about it.
K.
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-05-2003, 17:05
I recently played a 1v1 vs a fellow clanmate... the decisive factor was a couple of cav not concealed, but behind a hill and a wood, so behind Line Of Sight for my opponent.
A person using -ian would not have fallen into the trap, unless -ian get designed not to show units units not on los (wether they are concealed or behing obstacles).
It is definitly a drawback for mp. Traps are not only concealed units but also non seen units (hope you get the difference).
If not removed, I guess people will consider it a feature and an important aspect of the fog of war will be removed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Please change it,
Louis the Simurgh,
Orda Khan
06-05-2003, 18:06
I quite agree Louis.....As far as I'm concerned we see too much already http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
.....Orda
AGreed, but this topic isn't about MP is it? From a personal point of view i like the added flexibility and ease with which to control ones army that the extra camera angles allow. But then i don't play online in a competitive sense anymore.
Don't most of you tend to play on flat maps anyhow? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
For SP i think it's essential for playing hilly or wooded maps. Looking at it zoomed out from a bird's eye perspective gives a battle setting a real sense of awesome scale.
Anyway, it's an option that is absolutely essential for any modders who want to test the capabilities of the AI against their settings. For that alone it should remain in SP.
Quote[/b] (+DOC @ +June 05 2003,19:59)]AGreed, but this topic isn't about MP is it? From a personal point of view i like the added flexibility and ease with which to control ones army that the extra camera angles allow. But then i don't play online in a competitive sense anymore.
Yes we multiplayer scum should stay in Jousting Fields..sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I dont play much competitive but that doesnt stop me from using hidden/concealed troops whenever I can. Thats one of the greatest things about lots of terrain on large maps.
Quote[/b] ]Don't most of you tend to play on flat maps anyhow? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Grrr http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
CBR
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-05-2003, 19:56
Quote[/b] (+DOC+ @ June 05 2003,12:59)]Don't most of you tend to play on flat maps anyhow? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Argh
Steppe are way to steppish... After that, plain, flat or hill everything go...
If we segregate -ian for SP and replays and not for MP, fine for me, but I guess we are pretty much in the same boat...
The fact that it's easier to play with -ian in wood, etc... well, it's supposed to be tough to command an army in wood as opposed to a steppe... In this sense I welcome tough wood control (not to mention that I am not too bad at fighting in wood http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ). It's not supposed to be easy.
Louis,
And soon they want boats so crossing a river will be "easier" too pfffffff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif
CBR
LOL
I do not despise much but what i do despise is steppe, any kind of pav.
I gave the switch a shot last night: it's brilliant.
Orda Khan
06-06-2003, 15:48
+DOC+
A bird's eye view is one thing, an unfair advantage is another......Even in SP, why would I want to be able to see whatever I wanted? I understand your point about steep, hilly maps, yes, it's hard to control the camera but this device allows you to see over the hill and what's behind it. I would only include this for replays
I dream of being able one day to set an ambush that the enemy doesn't see until too late
.....Orda
If you don't want to cheat and scan over the map, then you don't have to? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
I'm not going to argue about how each person chooses to use this, as that's each and everyones own perogative. I don't use the -ian command to scan the AI's army and nor would i use it online to scan my opponents. I simply use it to make controlling my own army easier, as you'll notice the AI never has a problem with trees, hills, etc.
Whether you do or not is for you to decide.
Like LJ said in another thread, it's amazing that none of you have considered simply not abusing this?
I don't use it to cheat. I use it after battle for screenshots, which I'll soon post. And those are awesome for post battle analysis. Also watching the replay from above is awesome, you really can see very well what mistakes you made. I don't think this is any abuse.
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-06-2003, 17:40
DOC,
valid way to think about it in SP... Not for MP.
As this is not a controlled setting by the host, you can't be sure that nobody is abusing it during the game...
I can consider not abusing it myself, but I take the risk to play with ppl abusing it, spoiling what would be a valid tactic (and my fun with traps).
Would other player abuse it?
Well, I trust many players and friends... But given the widespread cheating in other games than MTW, I don't doubt that some players would abuse it to spoil other tactics. Result; you play always with the same people and the community get rigidified and less welcoming for newcomers... Not sure we need that.
Louis the Simurgh,
But Louis, i agree
This thread, if you look at the title, says for SP.
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-06-2003, 18:15
Yes DOC, but as Yuuki pointed out; it will be available for both MP and SP or disabled for both.
If it's possible to disabled it for MP only I am fine; you can play SP as you want, be sure I don't mind
Louis the Simurgh,
I think it may require some more work for CA, but the view could be available only to "View Replays". That allows both side to be happy. For instance, we do want to have birdeye view at replays to point out things that happened simultaneously on the battle field. And the -ian mode was simply to allow taking screenshots.
Annie
I take it this is for MP Lady Ann?
As the -ian command should remain as it is for SP, for all the reasons i mentioned in my first post
Orda Khan
06-06-2003, 20:59
I appreciate your point +DOC+, I should have expanded a bit.
Scenario...
Hilly map very difficult camera angles so I decide to use -ian. While getting a decent view I see too much....the surprise has gone.
I do see your point though
....Orda
Portuguese Rebel
06-07-2003, 03:08
Pfff cut that command out of mp... its a temptation many youngsters will not resist for sure. Then you get them telling you that "it's skill" when you ask "how did you now about those chiv knights on the trees behind the hill? Dam cheaters. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Poor Doc. You repeated yourself many times here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flirt.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
I am with Doc.
I only play SP campaigns and the view with -ian makes the game so much more enjoyable. The locked in view always felt rigid and claustraphobic-basically irritating.
Please keep it available for SP campaigns.
To put this as selfishly as many MPers here seem to be doing, I don't play MP at all and don't really care if it's a problem there. (sorry). I like to use it in SP for all the reasons +DOC+ mentioned and don't want it disabled
If CA can make it disabled for MP only, fine. If not, well, I don't see why people can't just agree not to use it. There's no requirement that forces you to use it if you don't want to I suspect that the better players won't use it anyway and that skill will trump this sort of cheating. On those flat MP maps you can see everything anyway. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
If you suspect someone of using it don't play against them
Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-08-2003, 13:14
I don't think any MPers would mind if it is available for SP and not for MP...
Problem is, I think it will stay as it is or be disabled alltogether for both MP and SP.
The 'you don't have to use it if you don't have to' argument has already been adressed; yes I don't have to use it. But I have no way to know that my opponents are not using it (it is not controlled by hostlike unlim camera).
So I have to trust my opponent... Well in many other MP games, as far as I know, cheat is a big issue, so you can be pretty sure that some people would use it.
I can choose to play only with the people I know, then we end up with closed, rigidified community, not welcoming for newcomers.
Flat map... sigh... No thanks,
Louis the Simurgh,
PS; have you considered this was not a feature designed to play the game?
PS2; do you know about /*+-?
It should be changed to a full game option rather than a command line option.
That way it could be a game host option for MP and turned on or off by the SP user http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I haven't tried it myself but I really get pissed off trying to set up armies in forests as is.
Whether it was meant to be in the game or not is now immaterial. The fact if the matter is it is and from a SP and modding perspective it's simply amazing.
I can't believe the actual native camera controls don't allow such depth of control in the first place? If the scope of control with the -ian commmand could be combined with the restricted camera so that one couldn't scope the whole battlefield with it then you'd have the best of both worlds.
Nevertheless the fact remains that removing it will destroy the modding capabilities of MTW, which are at moment simply awesome, and spoil the SP battles on hilly and forested maps. As i already said, if one could combine both the -ian command with a restricted camera then i imagine tne MP lot would be happy too.
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