View Full Version : Battlefield Ninja, anyone using them?
I understand the idea of battlefield ninja comming up behind the enemy formation and killing the general but does it work for anyone?
Surely as the would get quickly surrounded and be seperate from the main force they would rout too quick to be of any use.
ElmarkOFear
11-10-2001, 13:04
Battlefield ninja are good for chasing muskets and arrows as well. I use them to harrass an enemy's missile troops then charge them in to help out units that are about to be overcome by the enemy.
BSM_Skkzarg
11-10-2001, 13:10
Rshuck,
BN do not rout easily - their morale is extremely high - after all, they are a 12 man unit going against 5x their number if they engage a single full strength unit. They are very useful for many tasks, general assassination being one of them. They are also excellent for breaking an army's morale - 2 or 3 BN's in the rear attacking will break almost any army - WM's, ND's, and cavalry the only exceptions.
Use them when you can, but don't overuse them. Like Kensai - they are specialized units that should be used as such, never "en-masse" as a few cav groups will slaughter them.
Qapla!
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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
theforce
11-10-2001, 20:18
Well l have seen ninjas rout easily. You can use them for defending! Put some way in front of your men and do not move them. WHen the enemy attacks with his melle then you can flank with them from there. So simple.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com
five words
'heavy fog, capture the honjin'
...perfect http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
They're almost as fun as Kensi. The AI cannot deal with them either. They' are superb for attacking on bridge battles. You can take them across the river and the AI will do nothing. Move them to withing firing range of a unit on the end of the defenders line. FIRE. The AI will sit there although occasionnaly they will look like moving so just stop them firing and wait for peace to resume. FIRE. This will easily rout a couple of Ashi's without problems and SA can't cope either.
You can also use them to run round the back and attack their taisho. If you use H2H for this the enemy will turn round and try to protect him. Now rush your units across and merry slaughter will ensue http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'
BakaGaijin
11-11-2001, 03:17
Does anyone else know the SP requirements for building Battlefield Ninja? I left my tech tree at home in Hawaii, which means it's hella hard to look stuff up from Boston. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Disappear into the Darkness!!
Hosakawa Tito
11-11-2001, 03:24
Baka I think you need the Citadel, Infamous Ninja House, and a Sword Dojo.
BakaGaijin
11-11-2001, 08:31
Ochen spasiba, Tovarisch. =)
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Disappear into the Darkness!!
ragedevil
11-11-2001, 09:47
I would say I used ninja, but wouldnt that be telling a secret http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
RageDevil
since i posted i tried them over a bridge attack, sent them over first and killed the 15 ys unit with their dayimo and was quite impressed. they had about 240 archers firing at them and didn't lose any! (although i got a bit greedy and went for the next unit and the cav slaughtered them).
Ah, I think BN is useless for attacker on open plain. Any experierence defender will know how to deal with them. Can be quite useful for defender on open plain, as suggested, disrupting the attacker on the move, catching him unprepared, giving the defender a small window of opportunity when the attacker is in disarray and confusion.
Can be real useful in forested terrain. Somehow, even when you spot them a distance away, you can't click on your unit to attack them. So they can be easily missed-out by the opponent player. I have once had a unit of YS chasing my NC.. I w/drew my NC into the forest, and the YS got hit by my BN in the forest, and the opponent player didnt even notice until my BN has taken out 1/2 of his YS (and they are still "on-the-move" to get my NC).
But I find them still relatively easy to route given the good troopstat... Number in size is still the most important factor.
--tootee aka goldfish shimazu
Max Payne
11-11-2001, 19:13
My most memorable experience with the ninjas are that 4 groups of them at h0 defeat 5 groups of yari samurai surrounding them and rout them. They went up to 2h2 and 2h1 after that!!
Another memory is a painful one, and 12 of them died out when charging towards the musketeers who fired only 3 shots at them frontally. And hey, they'll be shot-dead even being concealed. :!
ragedevil
11-12-2001, 01:06
Battle Field Ninja can still be moved well over open terrain,without even being seen if u use your imagination. They dont limit their uses to just killing the enemy general either...they can be used for nastly little suprise flanks if used skilfully.
RageDevil
Lord Toranoga
11-12-2001, 04:55
I love using them, but I felt they ran too fast and their armor was too high, so I reduced them a little.
theforce
11-12-2001, 20:05
Ninjas are crap if they are spotted before the attack. Place them near on it woods and advance from there. If you are gonna move them then send some cav or change some units positions so that the other will watch your men and see what is happening. While doing so try moving the ninjas a bit at a time. Don't order em to run across the map cause the enemy will spot them.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com
Kraellin
11-12-2001, 22:42
what i love to do is set my main body up near the 'back' of the map, but set 1 or 2 bn's way up 'front', closer to the enemy and off to the side. they are automatically concealed and the enemy will often just walk right by them. so guess what, the enemy just helped you with your flanking :) walk them up behind the enemy now and you dont even have to have them fire, just take the morale loss penalties on the enemy and leave them there for killing routing enemy units. fun stuff :)
K.
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I'm sorry, but i never apologize.
A tactic that has served me well a time or two is to just run them behind enemy lines pretty much in plain sight. Send them way back runnin fast. Most of the time your enemy (if a multiplayer sometimes both) will chase them. I've had one unit of BN being chased by 3 units! One yari cav ,one nag cav and one unit of yari sam and the BN still eluded capture and ran off some gun units http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
You have to admit if you see the little snakes runnin behind your lines you are gonna chase 'em. It's a great way to occupy enemy cav and/or take infantry away from your opponents lines.
ElmarkOFear
11-13-2001, 10:33
Yamato is a ninja's best friend! It has many hills/valleys and forested areas where you can sneak and hide in.
frogster220
11-16-2001, 01:42
So, how do you defend against these battlefield ninjas?
I got destroyed in a battle because they marched up to my defensive position and started routing my units. All I had was ranged units. It was a disaster.
My units couldn't fire on them and they sure didn't do too well in hand to hand combat.
Any suggestions?
Cavalry seem to do well in hand to hand against anything not wielding a spear such as ninja, no-dachi, warrior monks. It doesn't need to be naginata cavalry and could be just standard yari.
Even if a low ranking cav unit gets routed at least they fair better than the rest and can keep engaging as they pull back.
One thing which I have not tried but may yield the best results is sending a Kensai at them or nullify them with another ninja unit.
GAH! Some of the NEW maps out there offer many good venues for the complete usage of a ninja's skills...
Ninjas on 4th K... Swiss Cheese.
Ninjas on Totomi... Sushi.
Ninjas on Green... Pickled toast.
Ninjas on Vanyasake... Priceless!
[WARNING: Shameless promotion http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ]
While I'm building forces to combat a large well lead (i.e. Takeda Shingen)enemy army I will occassionaly send 2 BN's and a unit of teppo into the enemies area despite being outnumbered 100's to 1. The teppo are there as a cheap distraction when needed as the BN stalk ito position. If I'm lucky I murder the big taisho long before I have to face him and it's easier this way than with conventional ninja once you have the BNs.
A high honour, high armour, high weapon Kensi is lethal to BN. Especially if you play with smaller unit size and there are only 12 of the black sods http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'
ElmarkOFear
11-16-2001, 06:06
Battlefield ninja can be beaten by honor 8 ashigaru. You also can fire upon them by spotting them with a cheap yari sam unit. Once your yari same can see them and they are firing on them, you can normally shoot the ninja with guns and arrows. It may take awhile depending on the honor and upgrades of the ninja unit though. Also, any cav unit besides cav archers are good for hunting down ninjas. But in a wooded map I would depend on high honor ashis or other ninja units to kill them. My favorite trick is to make an H7 wep1 arm1 ashi general and wet him in back of army to draw any ninjas to him to be slaughtered. I have seen my h7 ashi gen unit kill two units of honor 2 ninjas with only losing about 1/2 of his troops.
[This message has been edited by ElmarkOFear (edited 11-15-2001).]
frogster220
11-16-2001, 06:15
In my battle, I was the defender and had 4 60 men units of muskets, 3 60 men units of cavalry archers and my daimyo.
The attacker had an equal number of units, but included the BN. The BN walked up to my first musket unit, routed them in about 3 seconds and started on another. By this time, I had every other unit trying to hit the BN.
A couple of the BN died but the rest of the advancing army was getting close so I sent my daimyo at them with his cavalry. Seconds later he was dead, all my units were running away and the enemy heavy calvary was doing a comprehensive mop up operation.
Thank goodness for saved games.
Again, the signature is SO apt, http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Fight first, then scream 'Doh, why did I forget my Kensi!'
[This message has been edited by Zone (edited 11-16-2001).]
On bridge battles you can sometimes "smuggle" ninjas amongst retreating attackers. just have ninjas near bridge and stop attackers advance as normal as soon as they retreat put your ninjas runnin right in the middle of the retreating enemy. Obviously though this isnt easy to pull off but I have gotten it to work. Especially vs computer.
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