whos the best modder

[theadept]

who do u thinks the best modder
NOT YOURSELF

[A_B]

I'm not sure 'who is the best modder's should be a contest, but i will take the space to give some credit;

WesW. - i've been playing his mods for years, not only on MTW but on Civ. Call To Power. They have all been better than the original. He has the knack to use the game tools/quirks/nuances to squeeze a good deal more play value out of the original engine. His mods aren't just new units or a face lift. Rather, they fundamentally effect how the AI functions, greatly increasing the strategic challenge of the campaign.

Grell - I've been playing his new campaigns. I'm impressed by the quantity of his work (10 new faction mod, Interregnum, and his new Dark Ages mod coming up), and the fact that he tries a lot of 'new' things; new factions, new eras, and he's working on a simulated heathen-to-Christian faction religion shift which could prove to be quite interesting. His mods aren't as polished as WesW's, but Grell definitely pushes the boundaries in entirely new ways.

A_B - Not as published as some of the other modders, but very popular in his home town, a great cook, and combining intellectual brilliance with creative genius in an almost frightening way. He doesn’t always reach his modding potential, however, due to a job and family.

Lots of others as well, I’m just not as familiar with their work.

[Kekvit Irae]

I hardly think I would qualify.
My vote goes to WesW

[Lancer6969]

My vote goes to Grell

[Dukezer0]

Quote[/b] ]I hardly think I would qualify.

Don't be so hard on yourself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif , i'm playing your mod right now as the english. Next is the eygiptians to try out the heavy camel riders.

I always judge a mod compared to the original game not compared to other mods, IMO thats the way i can tell if its good or not.

As for the best http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif , i couldn't say. (yea i'm a pussy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif )

BTW, i don't know who done the MOYA mod a long time ago, but i had lots of fun with that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lancer6969]

Being able to play the Tuetonic Knights is fun....with Interregnum, Grells mod.

[theadept]

Lancer6969 can't spel
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Lancer6969 can't spel
Lancer6969 can't spel
Lancer6969 can't spel

[Kekvit Irae]

Like I said, I hardly think I'm the best one out there. It's sad to see the only mail you've been getting about my mods are hatemail (with the one random bug report), but it's even sadder when one of my mod threads slips to page two without a single reply http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

Kekvit there's nothing wrong with your mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I've been using it to help me with some things - hope you don't mind too much. Just seeing how you did things and such. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Besides, even though you have no replies in that thread, there are a couple appraisal's of it in other threads http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Like here

[Wellington]

Good Grief

Have "The Dungeon" posts regarding MTW modding really degenerated to this level of non-sensical trash

Sigh ... I despare

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

Hiya Wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif




Quote[/b] ]Good Grief

Have "The Dungeon" posts regarding MTW modding really degenerated to this level of non-sensical trash

Sigh ... I despare

Yes, and this trash will carry on while I'm here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Plus - if anybody - Wellington gets my vote simply for writing that editing guide quite a wile ago. Everyone who brings out some sort of mod is worthy of recognition, but those that were modding this from the start, finding how things work and then telling others, they're the best modders http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[theadept]

Quote[/b] (Ithaskar Fëarindel @ June 17 2003,09:49)]Hiya Wellington http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif




Quote[/b] ]Good Grief

Have "The Dungeon" posts regarding MTW modding really degenerated to this level of non-sensical trash

Sigh ... I despare

Yes, and this trash will carry on while I'm here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif


Plus - if anybody - Wellington gets my vote simply for writing that editing guide quite a wile ago. Everyone who brings out some sort of mod is worthy of recognition, but those that were modding this from the start, finding how things work and then telling others, they're the best modders http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
well then
youll just have to go

[Turbo]

An easy vote for me..

King David for his work on the Patrician, which was an extensive workover of the game. Graphics and all. Very impressive. Anyone looking for a Rome 'fix' should check it out. It is worth the d/l.

The creators of the Napleonic Mod deserve credit too, but King David was the first -- the pioneer.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Ithaskar Fëarindel @ June 17 2003,02:49)]Yes, and this trash will carry on while I'm here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
IF,

You've missed the point somewhat.

There is already a yearly poll for "recognition" in various areas. Also, this is supposed to be a MODDING forum.

I peruse The Dungeon for 3 reasons -

- to inform people (if I can)
- to be informed by other people
- to read other peoples modding opinions/theories/ideas

If I want to read political posts I'll look in "The Tavern"

If I want to read game related posts I'll look in the "Main Hall"

If I want to read a wide variety of posts I'll look in the "Entrance Hall"

The quantity of post's in any forum never concerns me. Only the quality.


I'm not quite sure where a "Who is the best blah, blah" type post belongs ...

... but I'm pretty sure it 'aint in "The Dungeon".

What is the point in restricting new people from posting in forums other than the "Entrance Hall" if your attitude is this trash will carry on while I'm here ?

And for the record, I think it's trash because it does'nt offer information, does'nt request information, does'nt provide opinion, is related to people rather than modding and is totally pointless.

Why pointless? Because, if your good at what you do, you do'nt need to be told by anyone - you already know, and so do others.

Just my opinion, and as I've said before - opinions are like arseholes - we all have one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Welly

[A_B]

Quote[/b] (Wellington @ June 20 2003,09:45)]
Quote[/b] (Ithaskar Fëarindel @ June 17 2003,02:49)]Yes, and this trash will carry on while I'm here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Because, if your good at what you do, you do'nt need to be told by anyone - you already know, and so do others.
ouch, pretty much the opposite of what any management training (or expert) might tell you. Everyone wants recognition when they do something well. It is one half of the carrot/stick equation. I'm sure modders hear ten complaints to every praise.

So what's wrong with a post which allows us to acknowledge their efforts?

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] ]who do u thinks the best modder


Everyone who tries, there is not best imo, they may speicalze and one certain thing better then anyone but overall they all have their talents.

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ June 20 2003,20:25)]
Quote[/b] ]who do u thinks the best modder


Everyone who tries, there is not best imo, they may speicalze and one certain thing better then anyone but overall they all have their talents.
Absolutely - which proves my point. Thank you

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

Sorry Welly, I understand.

[Kekvit Irae]

I do believe it's time for me to bow-out.

[Demon of Light]

Wellington: The current promotion system is such that everyone who avoids making an arse of themselves in their first 4 or 5 posts gets senior patron. From there, junior member is rubberstamped maybe a week later. So if part of what you are saying is that topics like this (or rather hat you say this is) are started by people who shouldb have been forced to wait longer for their posting privelages, then I can certainly see your point.

It should be noted however that this is not a useless topic. At least it doesn't have to be. Any discussion of this sort invariably involves discussion of the mods themselves. A discussion about the best creator of mods would exist in a vacuum if the above were not the case. SO if people actively discuss what they consider the best mods to be AND WHY then it is possible to have a fruitful discourse that might spark some creativity. Even if no creative thought occurs, a lively exchange on what makes a mod good and what does not is still beneficial.

[theadept]

excuse me this is not meant to be for morals
who do u thinks the best modder

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] ]who do u thinks the best modder

Why would you ask it again? We gave you are answers. Would you like me to repeat mine? There is no best. person 1 may rule in faction creation but person 2 may kick butt in modding the actual campagin map. Fine I'll give you an answer, th ebest modder is the org forum members. They all contribute equally and work very hard to give us the fixes, changes and mods they do, it isnt right to say one is the best becuase I guruntee someone is better in anotther area, thats why they all are the best.

Oh ya and


Quote[/b] ]excuse me this is not meant to be for morals


That was just inappropriate to say. This is meant for morals as this is a board that is supposed to be friendly. By that line it doesnt seem u have any but most of us here do. Sorry thats how it is.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

The 'best' modder (if there is one) is also a matter of personal taste, just like the best author of books.

Things aren't that transparant here, since people may help each other to get their kite flying. There are also people working in the shadows so to say, explaining how
things could be done, people making tools so mods can be made and people testing mods. All those things are extremely important for a vital mod community and this community as a whole.

A more interesting question might be: which mods are very good and why? Such a question may result in even better mods, though I would hate to see the ones that stray away from the mainstream, disappear.

[Demon of Light]

OK then...

Let's have it folks: Best Mod and why you think it is the best. Be persuasive. My brother has been itching to try one for a while now...

[DemonArchangel]

the best modder is easily

GNOME

[MiniKiller]

Demon of Light that is a much beter question because people have preference over which mods they like.

[WesW]

I would like to echo what Tosa said a couple posts back. You really need a community to produce worthwhile mods. LK, Wellington and others have helped myself and many others understand how things work, and provide a blueprint for people wanting to start their own projects.

I first became interested in modding when I read the notes and comments from the first serious modding effort done for CtP I. It was then that I learned about how the CtP games were made with an unprecedented user access to most everything but the core AI routines. After making a small mod, which addressed a single issue regarding how the appearance of City Walls in the early medieval period made it impossible to take cities until cannons became available, I started delving into the AI settings, which no one but that initial modder had seriously attempted to understand. I started posting my ideas and attempts to improve this one area, gradually attracted attention and some devoted play-testers, along with my initial partner, and the mod grew from there. I mention this because about 90% of the people who start working on a mod never finish it, and often it's because they try to do too much at once, get bogged down and frustrated, and quit.
Those people whose names may not appear on the title of the mod, are often those without whose help the mod could not have been done, or not done nearly as well. I estimated once that I only contributed about a quarter of the effort put into the Medmod II, and about 90% of that was reading and replying to emails and posts from my partners and play-testers, and making the Readmes.
For each of the first two Medmods, there were over a dozen people who contributed files, and I incorporated the SLIC functions of several other modders who had released them as separate mods to fix or enhance the game. This was what really enthused me about mod-making. It was fun to solve problems and enhance gameplay, and of course it's nice to receive kudos from people who enjoy the mod, which is one reason I spent so much time and effort on the Readmes. And if you're not sure what I mean, just dl the text portion of the Medmod II and scan all SEVEN or so readmes, along with the spreadsheets.
However, it is the collaboration with the people who volunteered to help on the mods that has stuck with me the most as time has gone by. If you want, I can try and dig up some of the archived threads over at Apolyton, including the one I constructed from the posts and emails I exchanged with the lead AI programmer from Call-to-Power II, who wanted to help his baby be all it could be after Activision pulled support for the game six WEEKS after its release, and let him go along with some of the others who had worked for 18 months on the project. We weren't quite able to accomplish the task, at least not to my liking, but I had the opportunity to work with some incredibly talented people, such as Wouter Snijders and Harlan Thompson.
The tech tree we developed for that game is perhaps the greatest single accomplishment in any of the Medmods, even though I was basically providing a rough draft for Harlan to mold into a work of art. I honestly think that there is nothing else that can compare to it available anywhere, commercial or private, and certainly nothing in the commercially-released Civ or CtP games.
And it's also the bonds you can develop through the collaboration. Wouter worked with me in making my ideas into SLIC-events reality from the beginning of the Medmod I in January 2000 until the end of Medmod II development almost 2 1/2 years later. I remember one time when, after finding no visible flaw in a large code-block I had said was causing crashes, he deleted the entire block and typed it in again by hand. It turned out that this solved the problem, but the point was that a college senior-level programming major would do that based upon the opinion of someone with only the most basic education in programming languages, and that embarrassingly out of date.

Getting back to MTW; it's stuff like what the Lords are doing together that forms lasting memories, regardless of how successful the project turns out. We are working on different types of things, but there is always going to be knowledge shared and ideas traded through the forums, and I would always encourage people to band together on a project rather than try and do something on their own, unless they just want to address a single game issue.

I think that a discussion involving "why" people nominated their favorite modder was implied in the thread title, so I don't think that this has to be an uninformative thread. I actually think that this could be one of the more informative threads on the forum, if done in a respectful manner, where people could describe both what they feel are the strengths of various mods, and perhaps what they feel is lacking or confusing.
This would be a single thread where we can get a feel for general opinions, and also perhaps an opportunity for the mod-makers to clear up any confusion that may be keeping people from dl'ing our mods.

Tosa or someone might want to change the thread title to provide a better idea of its contents, but this can definitely be a helpful and unique addition to the forum.

[Lancer6969]

man....you touched my heart..."sob" "sob".... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
im crying now....thanks....



hehe

[Ithaskar Fëarindel]

WesW, amazing post. I don't really know what to say in response http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I'm happy to stumble along with my own mod, but I don't think I'm covering any new ground. This'll be my first real mod (esp. for TW), but I can't say I've done a lot of new stuff... most of it I find in posts lieing around here. Which I think is a fraction of what you're referring to, a collection of modders sharing their own experiences, to help not only each other but people who'd like to mod but never really got around to it (like me). I'm just following other poeples footprints though, and sometimes veering off to find some blockage.

That's why I said Wellington, I know others are maybe better modders but the guide Wellington made is the sort of thing that should be done, I guess I could say anybody who posts on here and helps others.

[MiniKiller]

Thanks for including me I said alot to Just in littler words, lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif *Is annoyed and points to sig*

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[theadept]

the demon of light is right

[theadept]

WesW is a good modder but why did he have to post such a long reply http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

by the way i havent posted for a while because of a series of computer crashes

[Marshal Murat]

I think this is a little unfair. *couLordzgh*

[ShadesPanther]

*cough*DukeJohn*cough*

[TheSilverKnight]

There is no best modder in my opinion. They're all good. What really counts is what they put in their mod. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[dessa14]

we shouldn't in my opinion be quarrelling over who's best at modding because sometimes different modders create different styles such as WesW he created a mod that made it harder for the player to win against the computer while others such as king david ect made mods in different times and places that gave variety to gameplay and these two different styles of mod create a community of brilliant modders and noobie modders that are still learning the rules to the book and one day they may take the place of these older modders in future games similar to total war so there is no best modder they are all different in their styles and tastes so they create the variety we all love
thanks dessa.

[Bevan of Hertfordshire]

Bring up something old Cough*BKB"Cough

[Guilhabert de Castres]

Quote[/b] (TosaInu @ June 25 2003,16:27)]Konnichiwa,

The 'best' modder (if there is one) is also a matter of personal taste, just like the best author of books.

Things aren't that transparant here, since people may help each other to get their kite flying. There are also people working in the shadows so to say, explaining how
things could be done, people making tools so mods can be made and people testing mods. All those things are extremely important for a vital mod community and this community as a whole.

A more interesting question might be: which mods are very good and why? Such a question may result in even better mods, though I would hate to see the ones that stray away from the mainstream, disappear.
Hello all,

Perhaps this is an appropriate place for me to weigh in and introduce myself. I'm a scenario designer for more strictly historical boardgame-derived wargames. I currently work for an outfit in New York. I've been following MTW for a few months now and in particular the mod issues that have come up. At this point I am only familiar with the work of Wes and BKB, both of whom do outstanding work. My apologies to others I have not looked at uet--I'll certainly get to it.

But I wanted to use the example of these two to echo the point made by TosaInu: these two mods to my mind compliment each other in different ways. Wesmod focuses upon unit stats and PO behaviour (Programmed Opponent--the people I work with consider "AI" a misnomer); BKB, on the other hand, has reworked the entire groundwork of MTW in detailing a host of new historically justifiable factions. As I do this sort of picky work, and I did reams of it to put up for free for players, I can appreciate the immense work that both these two have done. that said though, its a question of preference and emphasis as to what you want seen yourself personally. For myself, I think these two should join forces. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Regards,

GdC

[theadept]

if it is a matter of taste who's YOUR favourite modder

[Guilhabert de Castres]

As I said, I'm unable to give an informed answer as I only know the work of two; however, using those two as a good example I think (as their work is very detailed--we are talking about an enormous amount of work by both Wes and BKB), I made the point that both address different issues that I want to see done in MTW--more historical research on factions, units. Programmaed Opponent problems etc. Neither is "best" for me, and I'm really not trying to be overly diplomatic. They address different issues. My suggestion that they perhaps join forces for this reason was therefore serious.

GdC

[theadept]

at the moment i'm on WesW's med mod