Playing the Northumbrians

[econ21]

I bought VI as a patch for MTW and so only belatedly tried the VI campaign (I was not attracted to the more limited scale and tech tree). I must say, I am pleasantly surprised. I chose to play the Northumbrians, as these are one of the harder factions, and even on normal the game is challenging.

The economics is much tighter than in the MTW campaign - I am struggling to build up a trading fleet, the source of vast wealth in MTW. The very long gestation times for agricultural improvements and abbeys generate a real guns vs butter choice, especially given the almost immediate Viking threat.

I like the implementation of Viking raids - they do seem to be hopping around, with small but powerful forces, simulating raids very nicely. I managed to deterr early raids, but recently have had to fend several off with my own very meagre armies. You have to use smart tactics - archers against berserkers, use your cavalry to lead their spears on a dance and to threaten their flanks/rears etc.

I think I messed up my province building - building too many low troop and ship producing buildings. Because I am so poor, it probably makes sense to specialise troop building in only one place (with iron) and devote the rest to economics. I have avoided raiding or rushing, because I seem too weak and anyway prefer turtling. The Northumbrians have a nice central province with no borders plus iron, that is ideal for troop building. As I am so short of money, I have been methodically upgrading existing troops - in MTW, this is something of a chore, but in VI with a small army, it seems key gameplay.

The naval aspect is fun - I have managed to protect my eastern shores against Vikings through a 3 ship navy, but a new ships built in the West are sunk. I sending a new 3 ship fleet from the East around Scotland to protect that flank.

My neighbours are mostly allied, but somehow seem to have much larger armies than my border forces of 4-5 units. The Mercians in particular have a very large forces that could crush me easily. So far, they are distracted warring with the Welsh and the Vikings but I fear them more than the Norsemen.

The tech tree is not as limiting as I feared - it seems I can choose between cheaper high valour fyrd or low valour armoured spearmen. It sounds a close one - I'll have to look at the stats. I can still have cavalry (heavier cav with princes; basic horsemen may be easier to get than mounted sergeants in MTW) and archers seem even more important (vs the Vikings) than in MTW. I can also now get huscarles - I gather they are crucial, in these infantry heavy battles.

All in all, it is a fun game. I don't know if it is just inexperience, but I am having to play more defensively than in MTW and definitely feel more threatened. I look forward to trying other factions.

Anyone care to post any tips on playing the Northumbrians or any other VI campaign faction here, I'd be interested.

[Brutal DLX]

Hi Simon. Glad you tried the VI aspect too. It's somewhat disrespectful to refer to VI as a "big patch" for MTW, in my opinion.
The VI campaign is really deep, and unless you are playing the Vikings or Mercians (or Saxons), it's quite a rough start.
Basically, you have to decide if you want to rush your closest neighbour to get more territory, or turtle in. In the latter case, I would suggest taking that untouchable core province and build farming there. Clearing and simple farm improve the income dramatically, but it takes time to build, and as long as you don't know if you can hold a coastal province with your forces, it doesn't make much sense to start a 12 or 16 year building project there.
I always build watch towers, border forts and then upgrade the village until you can build the basic troop training facilities. I'd suggest doing that in the border provinces, and not centralise troop production. It's better when one is able to train 3 units during one turn that vice versa.

Of course building a port is a good idea, but one is enough at the early stage, you can forget about trading until you secured your lands with a reasonable military force.
Perhaps you can ally with the Vikings after a while, and try going after the Mercians as soon as you see an opportunity, as they possess the richest lands (they started out with more farming upgrades...) and if you wait too long, they'll replace their huge armies (with a healthy percentage of peasants) with better troops. It's just a basic guideline, as in VI each campaign develops quite differently and rapidly so. Be opportunitistic. And be sure to upgrade farming/mining in provinces that are not directly threatened.
Oh, and I've never built abbeys early. They are like beacons to the Vikings, whereas clearings and simple farms can't be destroyed.

[econ21]

Thanks for the tips - seems we have been drawing different conclusions about which provinces to upgrade (my inclination is to put troop buildings in safe provinces and economic upgrades on the borders). I like it when the best way to play a game is not so obvious (arguably this is not true in the main MTW game where setting up a massive trading route is pretty much a no-brainer).


Quote[/b] ]somewhat disrespectful to refer to VI as a "big patch" for MTW, in my opinion

Yes, I guess, but CAs rather frugal patching policy does rather foster such a view. I had the same attitude to the Mongol Invasion expansion for Shogun. I've never played the MI campaign, but I really liked the changes it made to the main one. However the VI campaign - which some have likened to the original Shogun one - does seem a lot more attractive than the MI campaign.

[Brutal DLX]

Agreed. MI campaign can be finished within hours.

[+DOC+]

One thing is for sure, and that is the scale of the VI is much more user friendly. One can get much more personal with leaders and faction Kings/heirs simply because the size of the game is so much smaller. The Total War series has proved to me that size doesn't matter http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Enjoyment wise, i reckon i've enjoyed the STW and VI games more than the entire MTW campaign simply because the scale of the game is more manageable.

In VI, by the time you are getting to a what you would consider a sprawling empire, you are basically at the cut-off point for winning. This is what i really like about the VI campaign. Although the units and tech tree aren't as interesting as the full MTW campaign, the scale of the game is more addictive.

I also find that when i've reached the superpower stage in the MTW campaign my interest slow starts to wane, as at some stages the turn-time can take anywhere up to 2 hours to play large battle after large battle. This can become a little on the repetitive side.

The only reason i still like the MTW campaigns is because the GAs seem to be working now and this offers a much needed alternative to the tedious conquest variant, which with the size of the MTW campaign is simply too daunting.

The added uncertainty of the role the Vikings play in VI is also very refreshing. They can either devastate you by attacking unguarded provinces when you least expect it, or they can aid you immeasurably by all of sudden attacking the mighty Saxons or Mercians, thereby giving you a little more time to build up or allowing you an opportunistic moment to attack.

Like someone said above, a lot of VI is about opportunistic moments. Knowing when to attack, who to attack and when to tech up is vital, especially when you are playing one of the weaker sides, e.g. Picts, Scots, Welsh and Northumbrians.

This is also one of the features i like about VI. The fact that there are easier factions than others to use. If you are playing one of the weaker factions, the obvious initial thought is to beat up on one of the other weaker factions to gain some more land quickly. One thing's for sure though, and that is that rest assured you'd better have some plans for the Mercians or Saxons, as for each year you leave them be, they'll be getting stronger and stronger.

In one of my campaigns i'd actually been doing relatively well as the Welsh, taking the NOrthumbrian and Scots' territories. All this time however, the Mercians were getting bigger and bigger and richer and richer and even though i was tough when they attacked me, i wasn't tough enough In hindsight i'd left them alone for too long and all the i was taking out the minnows, they'd taken the rich Saxon lands

[Satyr]

I have now played all the VI factions and I am currently in the middle of my Northumbrian campaign. BUT Unlike you I have become incredibly aggressive in VI. In the 15th year of the campaign I have built 4 companies of Huscarles and I started warring with the Mercians. By 828, the Mercians are dead. I did the same thing with the Saxons when I was playing as the Welsh and I had eliminated the Saxons by 811. I feel that your best chance of taking the big guys down (Mercians, Saxons) is to attack asap. If you wait, they get richer faster than you and you will very quickly lose the arms race. Once you have taken their good territories, stop for a short while and consolidate, build troops and some econ and then attack again. I am always at war in VI. Oh, I also always send my bishop/emmisary to Hordaland on the first turn to make peace with the Vikings. This really lets me be aggressive because I know I am safe at home. Try it this way, you may really enjoy it.

[econ21]

Interesting, Mary. I fear what you say is true of most Total War games - initial aggression can really pay off. Shogun was like that for the poorer factions. gainst the Hojo horde and it is true of most factions in the main MTW campaign (eg France vs England; or Spain vs Almohad). I like to be more pacific because I find battles a little exhausting and quite like being the underdog. However, I fear you might be right - with my pitiful army waiting on the shores for the Vikings, I feel rather historically like my doomed Northumbrian counterparts...

[Red Harvest]

I'm going to try the Northumbrians agains soon. I've always reached a stalemate or massive civil war while playing them. Just too many enemies and not enough money. If I take out the Mercians to gain money, then the Saxon Huscarles steamroller me in the front while the Vikings gouge me in in the middle and even that nasty 6 star rebel army nearby has made a foray into my lands. Didn't realize I could build Huscarles though...gonna have to try this again...

[econ21]

I think I am also going to try again. After some hesitation, I have cleared forests and built basic farms, and am staggered by the change it made to my economic situation. I was starved before, now I can be competitive. I also was surprised to see the 20% and 40% improvements take much less time than the early ones. Early on, I am going to focus most provinces on economic improvements and see if that helps.

[Brutal DLX]

Yep. As I said, either you have to rush your enemies, like Mary does, or you have to quickly ally with your neighbours and build up economics in somewhat "secure" provinces and set up the troop production in border provinces, as most buildings take just 2 years to construct and don't cost you a fortune, plus you may be able to hold the village/fort for one or two years till you can muster a counter attack.
The turtle strategy is more risky, but also more rewarding if you manage to tech up in peace and then crush your enemies with 2 or 3 elite stacks.

[Satyr]

Yes, after hearing how hard the Northumbrians were I was surprised at how upgraded your one starting province is. Just build a fort and a royal hall and in 10 years you can build Huscarles. Concentrate on building Fyrdmen and Archers till these buildings are done, then build 4-6 companies of Huscarles and you can roll almost anyone.

I don't worry much about my econ, other than to build mines, until after I have conquered my first target. Then I stop and work on getting farming and trading going. I am not sure it is worth the effort to get trading going in VI. The payback is probably about 40-50 years. Still, I do it anyway, although I am usually about to win when it finally starts to really pay off.

Of course, I always try to get an alliance with the Vikings asap (before anyone else, and before they attack me). In my Welsh game I was at war with the Vikings the whole time though, and I didn't have too much trouble. It takes the Vikings some time before they get ships that far and I had conquered the Saxons by 811 and then just concentrated on building up troops and infrastructure so that I could handle the Vikings when they did show up.

[Simovek]

Ok you guys convinced me to buy MTW again and pick up VI too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Is it possible for anyone to take some screenies of some of the unit pictures (with unit descriptions) and post them here? I want to see what they look like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif