Attacking on the Strategy Map

[Poopy]

Whenever I attack on the tactical map I feel like I could be doing things better, using less force and more tactic. I'm curious what everyone else does.

My offensive armies rely mostly on infantry, no matter what civ I'm playing. Usually 4-8 units are infantry; 2-4 are spearmen; 0-3 units are archers; 2 are cavalry. When I attack, its almost always a frontal assault, but when the defender is on a hill, I try get my army on higher ground by going around before doing the frontal assault.

Pretty much regardless of what I'm fighting, I'll put my spearmen in the middle, infantry on the flanks, and the units with highest attack on the edges. The cavalry is further away, in order to flank. I make the spearmen formation 4 men deep, the infantry and the cavalry 3 men deep. If I have them, I'll put other infantry behind the line to reinforce where the fighting might be difficult. Behind them are the archers, 2 men deep. Lastly the general's unit.

In battle, the enemy's center usually holds since the spearmen really take their time killing units, and their flanks fold in as I attack them with the cavalry or other high attack units, often from the back. I usually win because my general is superior, and because my troops are superior and better equipped, even though outnumbered.

This really seems like a tactless way to do things, but I've found that cavalry is fragile as a front-line and archers are not to be depended on to hold or take ground without strong infantry support.

How do you do it?


One more thing: In MTW I often use horse archers to harass the enemy's flanks, but since I'm playing VI right now, I didn't mention them before.

[Papewaio]

That is essentially a very strong balanced army and is identical to my default one.

However if I am against armies with less spearmen I like to have more cav. Spread out my forces, let the enemy respond by spreading out and then regroup using superior speed and basically hammer and anvil small groups with infantry/cav.

If outnumbered by cav I tend to put the spears on the flanks where they can counter act the cav.

[RisingSun]

I usually have two types of armies. A spearen army and an infantry army. The spearmen one has mosty spearmen with 2-3 halbs/infanry, 4 archers (longbows), and a limited number of cav. The infantry is the same except with infantry i place of spearmen and spearmen in place of halbs/infanty.

[econ21]

Yes, Poppy, that's basically how I play too. I also am not very satisfied - it usually turns into a slugfest and though I win, it's not as clean as a defensive battle.

Partly, it is hard to keep things together - often the AI rushes me before I am nicely formed up or the archers have done their job. I need to approach more slowly, I guess.

The closest I have come to finesse is the lure tactic - bait the defender with one unit and you may be able to lure them out piecemeal, defeating them in detail. This verges on the cheesy, however, so I often don't do it unless it is to draw the sting of a very dangerous charge (Gallowglasses, Highlanders etc.)

Reading SeljukSinan's brilliant account in this hall as an Almohad kalipha, I am tempted to use more archers - maybe 5, rather than 3, and rely more on firepower.

[vodkafire]

My tactic against almost any kind of infantry heavy force is to rely on archers. I have infantry only to protect the archers and for the follow up charge. I have discovered, using archers as skirmishers, you can do quite a lot of damage to strength as well as morale, lure them to your main concentration of archers, where they can be severly pummeled, then attack them w/ infantry when they are weakened and isolated. Throw in your archers and royal cav to the charge and those few units up front rout in no time. The other units will then lose a lot of morale and rout thereafter.

[Crash]

Poopy's army is a good balanced all purpose formation. I like to put the spearmen on the flanks of the main line if the enemy has calvary, plus one in the middle just in case they launch a calvary charge on the center. It's really the composition of the enemy army that determines how you tweak the basic formation. Heavy calvary is no good against an army of spears and polearms, spears and polearms are no good against elite infantry, high quality archers in good defensive terrain - oh, oh... Rock, paper, scissors...

I do love light calvary - Alan Mercenaries, Saharan Calvary, horse archers... Their speed on the battlefield give them an added dimension that other units can't have. Sometimes my favorite part of the battle is when my light calvary are chasing down and slaughtering routed archers, crossbowmen, and infantry. An all infantry/spearmen army cannot inflict those kind of mass casualities on a fleeing army. Light calvary can lurk on the edges of the battlefied or behind the enemy and take out catapults and ballistas in the rear areas.

Those annoying horse archers - boy they're great when they are on my side - talk about a multi-capable units. They shoot, they're fast, and they're smart. They try not get into fights that they can't win, but when your back is turned they get ya.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[vodkafire]

These are all nice, conventional organizations, however, my favorite one, in MTW and STW, is late in the game, where i have all arquebus and archers, with a few pikes for protection, and calvary. I have never lost a single battle w/ that configuration, even when outnumbered 5 to 1 once. just remember to make your arquebusiers hold position, turn off fire at will, and only fire right before they might get you. They route everytime, even honor >4 units.

[Mithrandir]

Welcome Poopy.

I just chuck as many units I have into one army and make them retreat, much easier than fighting ever battle....

[A.Saturnus]

Quote[/b] ]

I just chuck as many units I have into one army and make them retreat, much easier than fighting ever battle....

That`s actually the best way to win. Just as Sun Tsu writes: a great general fights only battles he knows he will win.
I attack usually slowly, moving my main army before his centre and take him under fire with arbs or crossbows. Meanwhile, cav or other fast units move to the flanks. Then I pull back the arbs and charge my spear lines and heavy inf. When they have engaged with the whole enemy army, I smash their flanks with the cav.
But sometimes, when the enemy has mainly units that are weak in melee, I charge quickly with the spear line and assault weak spots of the enemy line with cav.

[Satyr]

I have been using archers much more effectively lately. I will try to get on the same level as the AI and then skirmish with my archers. The longer I can skirmish, the more lopsided my victory becomes. If I can lure a company out with my archers I charge my cav into them after I have whittled them down some. They usually rout soon and that is one less company I have to face. If I can do this over and over, I will win. I have been playing very aggressively on the campaign map and I am usually VERY outnumbered and overpowered, but by skirmishing well, I can turn these battles into victories.

Just remember, eventually you will have to melee, and when you do make sure that the correct units face the correct enemies (swords against spears, spears against cav, cav against archers, and flank, flank, flank).

My kill ratio is often near 10:1 so I am not losing many troops and they gain valor pretty quickly. Try it, it will give you that satisfaction you are looking for.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Yes, like many others, your army composition is basically identical to mine. Offensive battles will always be more costly than defensive, unless you seriously outclass your opponents. A variation on your formation (particularly in MP battles when you will always be of equal class to your enemy) is to put spearmen units on one flank, while your killer infantry/cav units are on the other. The idea is that your spearmen flank hold and soak up some of the enemies good units, whilst your heavy mob smash the other flank. This way, some of his units will rout before yours. Whilst your cav' chase the routers, your heavy infantry round on the still-engaged enemy centre and remaining flank, who are now attacked in the rear/flank by elite troops. If your spears hold, this can make your attack more decisive.

Otherwise, matching units to enemy units is effective - as the attacker you generally have more room to manouver your units to take advantage of enemy weaknesses - so make sure that your spearmen get to engage the enemy cavalry, get your light cavalry round the flanks and into the enemy missile units, etc..

Span.

[Poopy]

Quote[/b] (Mithrandir @ June 13 2003,04:06)]I just chuck as many units I have into one army and make them retreat, much easier than fighting ever battle....

I know that's a good strategy for raiding on VI, but otherwise by doing that aren't you setting yourself up for a counterattack and making other provinces harder to attack because they have more troops?

Also, has anyone found a good use for gunpowder units in a regular army? Whenever I put them behind my troops and they fire, they usually kill more of my units than the enemy's.

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm going to try the spearmen on the flank formation and using more archers.

[Nowake]

I use lots of cavalry ... I discovered than you can beat the AI only with cavalry, no matter of his units. And when he routs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 12 2003,15:24)]

Partly, it is hard to keep things together - often the AI rushes me before I am nicely formed up or the archers have done their job. I need to approach more slowly, I guess.


I only realized this recently so apologies if you already know it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif -

if you click on the shield on top (left) of your units in the battle, you can select the thre-prong attack formation. If I remember right this sets up spears in the middle with archers behind them and cavalry on the flanks. You can then set up your army wherever you like within the circle (though not cahnge the relative unit position). This should save time when deploying for an attack.

My favourite of course is the Ottoman set up, I simply love the horse archers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif

[Balamir]

I dont know why but my army is grown on the existence of cavalry. I get 5 infantry 5 archers 2 knights and 4 light cav for a default army. This is a basic attacking army for me. As for defence then I consider getting spearmen too, but on early period, I must say they are totally useless, so I never tend to use them really. Yes they can hold their formation, but that is not enough to beat a unit since they can only kill a unit in 5 minutes. I batter the enemy army with archers and then I put 2 light cav on each flank of the inf, move slowly and charge. The knighrs can come in handy while protecting my light cav while they are flanking, or simply eat the enemy general.

[Crash]

If you can protect your archers long enough that they run out of ammunition, you have made the most of their role on the battlefield. But that is usually only possible when the opponent is attacking, such as in a bridge or hill defense. That is why I like good horse archers - the Mamluks and Byzantines have a big advantage in that respect, since they can shoot and fight equally well.

Try this tactic - always have at least on unit of arbalesters in your army and have them always shooting at the enemy general. Could turn the tide of battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Lord De Moray]

I have this tatic for dealing with Islamic forces (mainly horse and fast infantry). Deploy Spears into a square well 3 sides rear open say 2 units to a side. Place archers on the outside on hold ground, heavy infantry in reserve behind the spears reay to rush out to get advantage where required. The enemy rarely gets into hand to hand fleeing with the archer fire alone, holding their ground alows extra shooting time and much more damage at close range. Beware they may need to be pulled back if contact is likly. Works realy well with musket and pike only. I keep one horse unit to pursue the routers.

Just one of the things I do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Regards,

De Moray