View Full Version : Tips for surviving as Turks?
I am playing as the Turks on Early campaign. The year is 1139 and my provinces are all Turks starting provinces plus the one below Antioch. I have been building up my farming and a some military buildings.
I waited until 1130 when the Egyptian king died and the next one was very weak. They had a civil war and I bribed one of their armies in the province below Antioch. I then invaded and captured Antioch. The Egyptians still have large armies. Bigger than mine and the Byzantines are of course huge and haave much larger armies than mine.
Anyone have tips to help keep me alive? I think I am going to try and set up trade from Antioch, then build up and defeat Egypt. Then Hopefully sack Constantinople by landing my armies from the sea. Anyone else got any tips or suggestions?
Oh, and my armies are... small amount of units guarding home provinces. A little less than full stack or Saracen Spears, Ghulams, Horse archers and Archers in Antioch and a full stack of bribed troops just below them.
Leet Eriksson
06-15-2003, 00:23
rushing is the key here,you should have both constantinople and egypt by 1100,and start picking on the remains of the hungarians and polish and the vast rebel territories below novgorod.establish trade quick aswell and you'll have those florins flowing in no time.once you get turcoman foot soldiers start pumping them out also don't forget their horse counterpart the turcoman horse archers.use skirmish tactics when playing turks and conduct loads of guerrilla warfare and you'll eventually conquer europe
Portuguese Rebel
06-15-2003, 00:25
You have waited too long my friend. You are prolly in for big troubles if the byz decide to take your fat nice provinces (that is how the Ai calculates were to atack plus troops stationed there, do you see your problem?). You should have atacked sooner, rush either the egyptians or the byz (i prefer the byz since they are likely to get in other wars with the hungarians, italians and sicilians). But now all you can do is pray. If things go bad decide wich provinces are fundamental. Keep the trading one since if you achieve some naval power you can atack behind enemy lines. You must choose your opponents carefully now. Thry to take one on when there is already a war going on. the ideal would be that both the egyptians and the byzantines would be at war, so you wouldn't have to worry with you "back door".
Maedhros
06-15-2003, 01:27
Egyptian armies tend to be very large but don't fear. They are mostly light troops with little training or dicipline. The Byz are on a tight schedule. Their armies become more outmoded as time goes on. If you can't take them hold the frontier and skirmash with Egypt.
Remember the terrain and temp penalties. Saracen foot are one of my fav units, but are best deployed against constantinople. Masses of cheap Muwahids and archers could help you in the south.
They are cheap and quick to build so you can find the bulk you'll need to press ahead. Both are good in the desserts.
Normally no worries the Turks rule. (when the king doesn't suffer cowardice or hesitation)
I have a similar game Turks/Early/Hard. I just rushed the egyptians in one of the first few turns. In the start of the game you can destroy factions very easily. By 1100'ish both the egyptians and the almohad where gone, and a little after that i now have the land of spanish and aragonese too.
I've stopped expanding a bit here, because i only need 5 or so border armies to protect my entire empire and im the richest and have the largest army.
Of course taking this way also means you have to build plenty of ships to protect all those coastal provinces.
In the start just build lots of Turcoman Horse(build a few horse archers until you have the buildings in place) and Armenian hv. cav and some spearmen.
Do you own Syria (can't remember right now whether it's Turkish to start with in early or not)? If so, pump out the camels and Saharans. Camelry is for confusing nasties, like kats and ghulam bodyguards, and Saharans for cleaning up the mess. Use alot of skirmish tactic, use your missiles and your speed. And don't bother with ghulams, use Armenians instead, and Turcoman horses from Tripoli, that you now own. Plus all the advices already mentioned before, of course.
Good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I find Turks very easy to play. First 10-20 years are challenging, the rest - boring collecting of provinces.
Tips - wait for 50 years building lots of saracen inf. As it was said here before Egyptian army is not as powerful and fearful as you think so you will eliminate it very easy. And so on...
well i just have just taken Const. and my other army is heading towards kairo. The key is as the other have said, rushing. If you enemys have many spears, use turcoman foot and shot them down, is they lack of spears rush them with armenians.
But later on when you get your jannys, woooo... then the fun starts... high valor and upgraded heavy jannys can beat everything. Other muslims dont stand a chanse.
I once created an army like this; The king, Siphas of the port. 2 units of "kawarasmian" (spelling?). 2 units of Armenians, the rest just jannys, light and heavy. It was all to easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
o_loompah_the_delayer
06-16-2003, 22:26
This is a little cheap but at the beginning mass your armies in syria and then attack trippoli and antioch simultaneously in the 2nd or third year. The egyptians should surrender both and you will get the sultans ransom since he is taken prisoner in antioch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
As for your game I am not sure - the egyptian armies are qualitatively crap compared to turks, as for the byz try to get mercenaries, though be wary of their fleet since they can and do land behind your front line.
Well after five attempts I still yet to survive. This sucks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Oh well, I am going to keep at it.
The Egyptians just have so many Beduion camels. Those things don't die. They have been winning against spearmen
invalidopcode
06-17-2003, 02:29
This biggest thing that helped me playing the turks was to micro-manage the battles and not use the autoresolve feature. The problem is that the auto resolve does not correctly take into account the speed and flexibility that your mounted troops really give you - especially the horse archer units. Once I started to control the battles by hand and use hit and run with the horse archers, it became too easy. Even with limited arrows, they kicked butt.
Of course, once the Saracean spear guys are up and running you should be able to hold your own while your cavalry units harass and wear down the enemy.
Also, I found that if I took on the Byz first, Egypt would eventually attack me from behind and wipe out my base of power. So now I just go for Egypt first and be done with it. And if you do it right, you can just march on over north africa and get to spain fairly quickly.
I would also recommend getting a fleet up and running as soon as possible so that you can prevent being invaded.
solypsist
06-17-2003, 04:31
best tip I have is to not start as the Turks in the Early campaign.
go for the high era, and take it from there.
I was wondering which of the Turkish archer units do you prefer? It doesnt take long to upgrade so that you can build Turcoman foot and Futuwa(?). But are combined infantry/archers, futuwas have good attack & large shield, but really bad defense and no armor(i think). The Turco. foot. have armor decent defense but poor attack.
Both units seem to be good, so right now i build 50/50 of each and try to mix them like that in my armies. The idea would be that on the defense, there is a change that you do not have enough infantry to counter all the enemy units, and so i would use the turcs to block any flank attempts, and then flank with the futuwas. In offensive armies Futuwas might be preferable since it allows you to have both flanking troops and lots of archers. On the other hand turcs have cheaper upkeep.
Brutal DLX
06-17-2003, 08:12
My tip is to try allying with the Egyptians, see to it that they attack the Byzantines, not yourself, help a little, definitely get Saracen Infantry and horse archers. Once the Egyptians are winning, backstab them, try to get Egypt, Sinai and Arabia. If they are weak, you can stop right there, try to get a cease fire. Then tech up some more and get farming going.
The reason for not taking Antioch etc. is that you may see lots of crusades coming your way, and it's better if someone else holds those provinces. Meanwhile you can expand into Asia Minor or the Russian steppes. I suggest taking the crusader states later, maybe at 1205, while you could use Egypt and possibly lesser Armenia for trading purposes.
After you achieved that and got hold of all provinces from Egypt to Constantinople, you should be in a good position for the rest of the game.
In my opinion, you'd better reach as far as Egypt, than build up your fleet. You'll have money and it's going to be easy to attack the byzantines in Asia Minor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I tried allying with Egypt and backstabbing them. I got Antioch, Tripoli, and Palestine. Then they destroyed all of my armies with Bedouin camels. And when I mean destroyed, the destroyed. There was nothing left. And my armies were mainly spear and cav armies. Time to try again I guess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Quote[/b] (Simovek @ June 17 2003,13:09)]I tried allying with Egypt and backstabbing them. I got Antioch, Tripoli, and Palestine. Then they destroyed all of my armies with Bedouin camels. And when I mean destroyed, the destroyed. There was nothing left. And my armies were mainly spear and cav armies. Time to try again I guess http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
Bulid your own camels in Syria. And then build some Saharan cavalry to hunt down routers/get to the flanks quickly. I managed to crush them in that way. Camles require only fort, and will get you all the way to Spain. Also, use horse archers on camels while they're still approaching you. No matter if you lose them, you'll replace them in time since the enemy will be far away from you if you're on defense. On offense, send missiles to skirmish and kill as many as they can before engaging them at all. Turcoman foot work well for this, since they have good armour and therefore usually win the archer duels. My lineup would be: missiles and horse archers (any) to dwindle the numbers first; the main body are saracens and muwahids, ghazis on the flanks to slaughter anything that hits the main line (including camels) and a few units any cavalry you can muster (camels vs. camels, armenians for shock, and fast cavalry to slaughter the routers). Muslims play differently from Europeans, you need to adjust your tactic. You have a lot of cheap easily available units, find the right combination that works for you. And good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Well, started a new campaign. In the first few turns I invaded Antioch and Tripoli with my starting armies from Syria and Edessa. I got Tripoli but not Antioch. But their king is cut off from the rest of their country, he is stuck in Antioch. So they will be rebelling real soon right? Either way I have another army attacking Tripoli next turn anyway.
Once I get Antioch and Tripoli, thats two of their really rich provinces they've lost. So I think I am pretty well off this time. I don't think the Egyptians will be able to stop me now.
I dont understand why ppl have such problems with Camels.. they plainly suck.
2 gruops of futuwwas, turcos(foot), just archers etc etc easly kills them enough for some spears to take them out.
When it comes to berbs with ther bows, they are even easier to kill, 2 gruops of Turcos(foot) is enough.
You can kill them with horses to, just see to that they are alone, then flank them with 2 gruops of cav, 1 gruop from each side.
The charge can be enough for them to run away. Unless the camels have high valor, if so get your horses out of there. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
I usually head south when playing the Turks early. You can try to grab the king for the ransom or wait a handful of turns to stabilize your provinces and see which way the wind blows but you have to move quickly. Build an inn right away and if you're lucky you'll get some decent men and a seige weapon. If you grab the Levant early enough you can keep the crusaders away with you own fleets while raking in the trading dough. Another strategic plus to taking Egypt first is that you have a great defensive position and need less troops to protect your borders.
Tacticly, pair up your horse archers and use them to harass the flanks. One runs in close, riles everybody up, then runs away while the second unit hangs back and nails/distracts whoever chases. Usually you can draw the camels to this side and then send your ghulams (an heir or two) on a shorter hook to the other side to break their line. If you've been hitting their line with arrows it won't take much to send them all running.
The only problem I had with the turks was a weak navy. I had many provinces but the sicilians had a stronger navy. WHen they decided to sink my ships the provinces I had, even provinces I had had for more than 20 years and with large garisons turned red. If I had had more ships I wouldn't have lost this campaign. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
solypsist
06-18-2003, 02:57
Well after looking this thread over a fwe times, I decided to start a Turkish campaign. Following my own advice, I started in the High period, and so far have been experiencing sweeping victory after sweeping victory.
I allied myself to the Egyptians, letting them fend off every crusade, and have wiped the Byz out. My Turks now control Constantinople, and I'm gearing up to repel the Mongol Invasion once it appears and starts marching towards my territories.
The year so far is 1230.
HopAlongBunny
06-18-2003, 04:06
With Turkey you have to get rid of both: Egypt and Byzantium. The one you snuff first depends on a lot of things: opportunity, alliances, what the AI decides to do...
I never had much luck with the Egypt first strategy. If the king goes down fighting, sure all those provinces become "rebel", and Egpyt is often "reborn" within a turn. I don't know what I do wrong, but the Egyptian king always goes down fighting.
Byzantium first is my preferred option. Citadel in Constantinople; cuts your build time to JHI by a huge amount. Buffer provinces between crusades and Rum/Armenia; tech those 2 provinces up asap for AHC.
When you get rid of both, you have 3 points to defend: Const. Georgia Egypt. You need to control the coast and Black Sea. You can share the ocean, but you better be able to hold it if attacked. Palestine and Sinai make great boat builders: no unit bonuses=no need to tech up beyond keep.
Once you get to this point, the game is yours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I prefer going after the egyptians and almohads. In taking northern africa you can do with only one army,which is extremely practical when you want to expand quickly. The turkish have actually been the easiest faction i have yet to play(spain was also very easy).
I(Early, Hard) have just reached the point where the golden horde arrived, and i easily outnumber them in the region attacked(With some reinforcement from the neighbor region). I have an incredible number of soldiers, but apparently it doesnt matter because im still making 15,000 - 20,000 florins per turn ( 350k in treasury ).
To sum up my tips for the turks:
1. Build many horse archers/turcoman horse in the beginning
2. Rush as quickly as possible the eqyptians(or byz.)
3. Build lots of boats
4. Make sure you grab at least the entire northern africa, and if possible also the peninsular thingy. Depending on how much you take, you have to use only 1 or 2 defensive(in that "end") armies to defend a HUGE territory and no one wants to go to war with you because you have destroyed the muslim factions and not touched anyone else. Be sure to have plenty of soldiers bordering the byz. though.
5. Build more boats and trade-houses
6. Upgrade so you get saracen infantry etc.
7. At this point you should be making a *LOT* of money, so it really shouldnt be so hard, except that the turkish troops takes a little getting used to.
8. You are *rich* so use that money, build upgrades all the time, in all provinces, and buy(ie bribe) other factions armies( When england rebelled i *bought* britian(great fun!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif).
I never worry about crusades, because i only have about 5 border armies in total and they are so huge, that none of the crusades have actually dared attack(and they cant cross by sea because i have alot of boats).
Well, the year is 1121. The Egyptians are destroyed, I own from Egypt to Rum. Finally Thanks for the help guys
Onto Byzantium
ShadesWolf
06-19-2003, 06:39
As stated become, the turks on early are a rushing campaign.
Check out my SP guide for more details......
Shadesmtw.com - SP Turk guide (http://www.shadesmtw.com/gaminginfo/turks/turkishfaction.htm)
Please not I am still in the process of writing this guide so only the early campaign is complete.
Maedhros
06-19-2003, 07:41
beware the purple. they lack Egypts numbers, but they have quality troops. They can be formidible this early, and you probably relied on light troops for he desert states. Leave them there to fend off coming crusades, and build a completly new heavier army for Anatolia. Keep the lighter cavalry for flanking.
The Byz can pack a punch but in the hands of the AI often move without grace. Winning by skill and swiftness takes practice. Until then merc crossbowmen, and saracen inf might make good friends.
the trick with the byz is to make them attack. Simple really.
Train alot of turcs(horse and foot) and alot to Scaracen spears to hold the line.
Now challange his archers and win http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif then keep on shooting his Katas and Inf down until he attacks you, then his Katas will me slaugtered by the Scaracens. Use your heavy cav to kill his foot ppl.
The rest is to easy.
I like training loads of turcoman foot soldiers, build ribat and mosk for +4 morale bonus, they need it. They are easily the best archers in the game, and they are very resistant to an attack because of their armor, and can fight fairly well. They will serve you well until you get the jannisaries, and the jannisaries are..........nasty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
HopAlongBunny
06-20-2003, 03:56
Beware the high star generals This has already been said but is worth repeating.
In a recent skirmish with a Byzantine force I isolated and swarmed the general. The melee lasted from early in the battle right to the end. Pinned by spears and flanked by AHC and Mamelukes (sp) the general took on all comers. He was slain as he marched off the field alone (no running away for this guy!http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif by some fresh horse archers who badgered his every step...from a distance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Each side lost about 900 dead in that fight. The general's depleted Kats accounted for 450+ of my casualties http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif In other words...be prepared for a fight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
ps. when you face these guys...execute every last one of them
I too got curious and started a Turkish, early campaign. I chose Egypt as my first target and stripped all that I could from the north, and attacked Antioch and Tripoli simultaneously on turn two. The Egyptians retreated and I bagged the Sultan for a ten grand ransom. With all that cash I could by Mercs and build whatever I needed, so I simply overwhelmed them. I had a great brawl in Egypt itself but had enough Turc horse to handle all his camels.
I chose to turn north after I had consolidated. I didn't want to face too many Kats or Byzantine Inf in silver armor, let alone Varangian Guardsmen, so I left N. Africa alone. Again, with the rich Egyptian provinces you have enough resources to maintain good defensive forces and keep the Greeks spread out and unable to consolidate or counterattack. In most cases they retreated leaving me to assault their castles. Looking back, I maybe should've attacked with less men and lured them into making a stand and defeating their army. But they vacated Constantinople completely so I'll let his army sit in Bulgaria and rot.
Anyway, by 1123 the Turks controlled Egypt, Georgia, Constantinople, and everything in between. With a growing fleet the money will pour in and all Crusades will have to pass through Constantinople.
Bagging the Sultan and his ransom makes it almost too easy, though even without the cash I think the basic strategy is sound. The Almohads will leave Egypt alone while Byzantium will be expanding into the Balkans and the Black Sea and will need to garrison these territories to protect them from the West. Without the cash each tactical battle will be more important but with Turc horsemen, Saracen Inf, and Arm H Cav, the Turks have the qualitative edge over the Egyptians.
Quote[/b] (Simovek @ June 18 2003,21:04)]Well, the year is 1121. The Egyptians are destroyed, I own from Egypt to Rum. Finally Thanks for the help guys
Onto Byzantium
beware the orthodox akritai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Well new update http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I have from Egypt to Greece to Georgia. I've also got a small navy going with more ships coming and I've captured 2 of the 3 islands below Anatolia.
my next goal is to get Naval superiority and land my armies in Italy or Hungary, so I can attack whats left of the Byzantines from behind.
Now that my empire is up and running, what can I do to keep my generals loyal? Is it just me or are Turkish generals very disloyal? My king dies and half my troops now have no loyalty at all. I can't marry any princesses to them..
Also, how do I make my heirs become good kings? Mine all seem to be crap. my king of 5 influence dies, and my heir in now a 3 star influence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
HopAlongBunny
06-20-2003, 18:39
Grats Simovek
I usually put off further expansion until I have my JHI. It lets me establish a large fleet and save up florins for the years no one will trade with me. Max out all that rich farmland as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Oh yes are you ready for the Horde? They are wussies compared to the Byzantines but get lots of turco horse to deal with the horse archers.
Not much you can do about heirs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif I send the real duds on suicide missions.
Simovek
A new king can increase the loyalty of his generals by going on a building spree. It doesn't take much to get the virtues "builder" and "magnificent builder" and they each raise the loyalty of generals by one and the happiness of your people by 10%. Certain governerships and other higher offices can add a lot to loyalty so if you have a many starred general with so-so loyalty try and get him a prestigeous no-show political appointment.
You gain influence by winning battles, conquering provinces, etc. It's not a must to have large influence, but it's supposed to give you more diplomatic proposals accepted and offered (at least in the beginning, while they are not ganging up on you). It's also supposed to give you better heir stats when compared to the stats of the current ruler (i.e. you'll have a higher chance of heir's stats surpassing those of the ruler if you have a high influence). At least that's how I understand it.
Ok thanks. I think I am going to spend some time away from war now, go for the building and building my navy. I think I will conquer a few provinces to help get my heir's stats up. Its
Too bad I am going on vacation tommorow I have to wait a week to finish my campaign
If you have some troubles with sultan's influencz you can become true believer and initiate several Jihads. Each succesful Jihad increases your influence. You can send nine Jihads in one province, conquer it and forget about your influence until your sultan dies.
I posted a plea for help about a year ago-- asking how to win as the Turkish. Some kind soul replied "attack the Egyptians first, finish them, then turn north." It works.
To boost your future heirs, use your king to fight. Chase down peasants, do whatever you need to; get your king some good battlefield experience. I had a massive string of crappy Sultans as Turks, got this tip off another board, and now possess a happy assortment of 6-star heirs in waiting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
solypsist
06-25-2003, 16:53
keep an eye out for those mongols - you sound like you're about due
If you followed the subtle hint about a citadel in Wolf's guide, you should have at least 4-6 JHI ready in 1230. If you really planned ahead by 1235-40 yu will have enough JHI to split into 3 armies capable of defending very well against the Mongols.
Just thought I'd mention it as JHI eat cav like crazy.
EDIT: yes there are 10,000 Mongols, but after the initial assualt you will most likely get smaller armies attacking you. Destroying these will weaken the Mongols to the point you can actually attack them easily. A good anti Mongol army:
4 Saracen Infantry
4 Futtuwas (another 4-8 in reinforcement)
4-6 JHI only used to cover the withdrwing Futtuwa. Used to attack if battle is already won after arrows are depleted.
2-4 Cav used to chase any at end of battle.
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