View Full Version : Viking Economy & Loyalty
Australianus
06-19-2003, 09:24
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif I have trouble keeping up with the raiding to keep the florins rolling in. Any hints?
My kings are disasters but none of the likely rebels have much going for them either. Some generals I appoint to posts that increase loyalty but it doesn't last.
Help would be wonderful
Dîn-Heru
06-19-2003, 10:51
Regarding raiding:
Raid the year before you need cash for buildings. Also try to keep your treasury on the plus side, that is if your treasury goes red raid a province or two to get back in black.
Alternate attacks between the different parts of the Isles. ie after raiding in the south, go north for a while or to wales or Ireland.
To get more florins, trade with the regions that you aren't raiding.
To increase loyalty, build alot, and use your king to lead the raiding.
Gregoshi
06-19-2003, 13:31
Raid the southern provinces. You'll get much more florin with them than you will in the north.
frogbeastegg
06-19-2003, 14:25
If you spread your ships out you can cover most of the east coast by the second turn. Target provinces with smallish armies and/or religious buildings. Religious buildings often give plenty of plunder. Remember that Viking units are very tough and can take on bigger armies than you might expect.
Maybe the religion has something to say? The new provinces you take are Catholic and your king is pagan...
I know that there is no Godars in this game (heathen priests), but pherhaps someone could make a mod on them?
In that way, you could turn the conquered provinces into pagans in a few decades, and also prevent the Christianization of your own land (which takes away the raiding bonus).
An off topic question: Does any of you know how I change my avatar?
Dîn-Heru
06-19-2003, 16:14
Quote[/b] (Odinn @ June 19 2003,16:03)]Maybe the religion has something to say? The new provinces you take are Catholic and your king is pagan...
I know that there is no Godars in this game (heathen priests), but pherhaps someone could make a mod on them?
In that way, you could turn the conquered provinces into pagans in a few decades, and also prevent the Christianization of your own land (which takes away the raiding bonus).
An off topic question: Does any of you know how I change my avatar?
You need 500 posts.
Newly conquered lands change faith over time. And you can speed it up by building shrines. Besides I think the changing religion parts only apply if the Viking homelands are 80% Christian.
Welcome to the Org btw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
What does your signature mean again?
We had it at school earlier this year, but I have forgotten it.
Quote[/b] ]Welcome to the Org btw
Thank you, fellow countryman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Quote[/b] ]What does your signature mean again?
We had it at school earlier this year, but I have forgotten it.
It is Icelandic/Old Nordic, translated in English it would be:
Cattle die, kindred die,
Every man is mortal:
But I know one thing that never dies,
The glory of a great deed.
About the game:
After playing a long campain on a friend of mine's computer we ended up having to accept Christianity. Not only because of the newly conquered provinces that included most of Britain, but also because the enemy had sent priests/bishops to the Scandinavian homeland, starting to convert the innhabitants (the shrines did not prevent it).
Now if someone made a mod, which gave the Vikings some sort of high-priest unit (a Godar), they could easily prevent the Christianization (just need to know how to make one).
Economy: In terms of military, do not build Landsmenn because they cost 40% upkeep than carls. They are worse at fighting but the Vikings will have more problems with their economy than with fighting. Also, try to retrain troops instead of making new ones.
In the beginning, try to raid for the first few years to establish a nice treasury. I recommend raiding factionsthe Saxons, Mercians and Northumbrians instead of rebels because weakening them is good for you in the long term. Try not to attack the Picts, Scottish, Irish and Welsh as they develop ports(which will be useful) instead of warring with each other like the Saxons/Mercians.
Capture Manau and use it to make ships for your trade network. You could also use Jutland to do this instead of Manau. Capture Dere and Beornice and use them exclusively to trade. Make a trading post in Jutland. You have 3 provinces with 2 trade items each and a ship network that should reach everywhere you would want to trade. Money should be rolling in. You can also build a trading post in Hordaland for extra cash.
Loyalty: In general, use princes/former princes to lead your armies. You can give them titles to become more loyal if necessary.
It is very important that your king has very high influence. Loyalty stems from influence. To insure that your king has high influence, kill off weak heirs(heirs with weak command) by sending them on solo raiding missions and then throwing them into the middle of a vast army. I like to call this good breeding. I'm not sure how many people do this. When you're killing off a prince, command the battle yourself and make sure that you get him in the middle of the army so he is surrounded and cannot flee.
In terms of increasing influence, it seems that attacking and winning in general increases influence. If your king has high influence, the rest of his generals will be loyal. Problem solved.
Dîn-Heru
06-19-2003, 18:34
Odinn: Are you sure your translation is correct?
(Although I like it better than the one I found in my Norwegian textbook) :
original: translation to norwegian:
Deyr fé, Fe dør,
deyja frændur, Frender dør,
deyr sjálfur ið sama. selv dør du og.
Ek veit einn, Jeg vet noe
að aldrei deyr; som aldri dør
dómur um dauðan hvern. dommen om hver en død.
Translatin to English:
Cattle die,
kindred die,
even you yourself die:
But I know one thing that never dies,
the judgement of every death
Dîn-Heru
06-19-2003, 18:41
Also your avatar changes when you reach your 25th post, your 100th, 200, 325th and when you reach 500 you can choose your avatar freely from a large collection of avatars.
And also your own title, instead of Mercenary, man-at-arms, knight, count or duke.
Kris Rhodes
06-19-2003, 22:38
When I played as the Vikings I found it a pretty successful strategy to have a dedicated raiding army set aside from the normal expand and conquer armies.
In the beginning, most of my troops were in the raiding army, and as time went on more and more of my resources were shifted over to the conquering armies.
With my raiding army, I just systematically went around the coast of England looking for well-upgraded provinces (abbeys are worth 2000 florin BTW) and selectively raided those. Then I shot *through* southern England (from the east coast to the west coast) hitting all the rich provinces in that area.
This had the double happy effect of making me lots of money *and* ruining all the british factions' infrastructures. They could no longer build quality troops, and they could no longer build troops in quantity.
I was conquering from North to south, and by this time I had conquered down as far as most of Northumbria and also all of Ireland. It was relatively easy after this to blitz through the rest of England--though I *did* run out of money for several years. But enemy troops were of such low quality that it wasn't hard at all to conquer most of the last provinces. And eventually I *did* start making money again and that made the very end of the game beatable as well.
Someone here said not to build Landsmenn, but actually that's the *only* non-spear infantry I built. It worked financially for me, anyway. (I actually never got to tech up to Joms Vikings--I ran out of money before that. But I was still able to conquer the entire map.)
Next time I will probably sweep up from the south instead when conquering, so I can have more of a chance at starting out with a somewhat workable economy. But it's a tradeoff. The northern provinces are all nice and lined up--easy to defend and easy to know where to conquer next. The southern provinces are more jumbled up so to speak and it's hard to know how most efficiently to expand.
Anyway, that's my thoughts.
-Kris
All the raiding is the way to go.
I like taking Manua and building Cav there as you get iron and can update them. I also take the other island from the Picts to build warriors out of. I upgrade to Huscarles asap. I only garrison with peasants unless I need to hold the province against the enemy. I take Ireland (and put many peasants to garison) and build up from there. As soon as you can build Joms Vikings, you will never know fear again and can sweep thru Britain starting with the strongest and continuing on to the weakest.
Well, Landsmenn and Carls are both 3 attack/1 defense. The only difference is that Landsmenn have an armour piercing attack, which becomes pretty much useless since the English armies are mainly made of peasants/fyrdmen or other unarmored units. To get the Landsmenn armour piercing attack, you have to pay 40% more for them in upkeep, which isn't really worth it if you're not fighting against units that have armor. Huscarles and Joms Vikings cost 100% more upkeep than Carls, and are in my opinion, overkill. Usually a full upgraded Carl with a good general can take on anything other non-Viking factions can send against it(provided that the anything isn't armoured or well-led by an exceptional general). However, I will say this, Landsmenn/Huscarles/Joms Vikings are much cooler than the Carl unit so if you want to splurge on your upkeep cost just to see them take down a unit of fyrdmen in 5 seconds, then enjoy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif. That's what its about.
frogbeastegg
06-20-2003, 08:41
Slightly off topic I know but I find that landsmann are useful in the early game before you get easy access to huscarles. They rip through armoured units like there is no tomorrow. Armoured spearmen can give carles trouble but landsmenn hack through them with terrifying speed. Once you get upgraded carles and huscarles the landmenn are much less useful.Keep them in tiny quantities for best effects.
On topic- try leaving the picts alone and trading with them. Your two starting provinces are good trade earners.
You should also be careful not to raid one faction too much as they get so weak the other AI's roll over them making your life harder in the long run.
After about 20 years try invading Ireland, it has good farmland and some rich mines. This will start the florins rolling in and puts you on a level footing with the other factions.
Gregoshi
06-20-2003, 21:07
Hello Kris. Thanks for joining us here at the Org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
You make a very good point about the difference between the north and the south. I started learning that lesson in my Viking campaign (which I really need to get back to). When I took out the Picts, they were just lined up for the taking - one province to the next. I landed a conquest force against the rebels in the southeast and found myself looking at several armies large enough to be a threat. Which way to go? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif I managed to man-handle the Mercians, but the Saxons have handed me my head in the first couple of serious battles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif With all that room to maneuver in the south, they withdraw where I'm strong and hit me where they stand a chance.
Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ June 20 2003,23:07)]Hello Kris. Thanks for joining us here at the Org. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
You make a very good point about the difference between the north and the south. I started learning that lesson in my Viking campaign (which I really need to get back to). When I took out the Picts, they were just lined up for the taking - one province to the next. I landed a conquest force against the rebels in the southeast and found myself looking at several armies large enough to be a threat. Which way to go? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/dizzy.gif I managed to man-handle the Mercians, but the Saxons have handed me my head in the first couple of serious battles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif With all that room to maneuver in the south, they withdraw where I'm strong and hit me where they stand a chance.
Agreed; it's easy to raid in the south, but hard to get a foothold.
Mechstra
06-21-2003, 14:15
VI sounds really good from these posts. More room for strategy on the 'strategy map'? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
It is crazy that the lendmenn have axes and the carls have swords... The carls in this game are supposed to be this drafted leidgangr troop while the lendmen are rich men from high up in the society. Swords were more expensive and should therefore not be so easy awailable to the poor carl(this name should have been Leidgangr Warrior or something alike), the lendman however, should be the rich man to afford swords...
Quote[/b] ]Odinn: Are you sure your translation is correct
No I'm not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif Unfortunately, our language have been so Germanized that I only understand some words in Old Nordic, not the whole sentances.
The translation is what I found everywhere I searched.
Quote[/b] (Odinn @ June 21 2003,11:47)]It is crazy that the lendmenn have axes and the carls have swords... The carls in this game are supposed to be this drafted leidgangr troop while the lendmen are rich men from high up in the society. Swords were more expensive and should therefore not be so easy awailable to the poor carl(this name should have been Leidgangr Warrior or something alike), the lendman however, should be the rich man to afford swords...
I've noticed this too. The Carls should have more attack than the Landsmenn because swords are better weapons, and they should get that +1 Valour bonus instead of Landsmenn. That would be historically accurate, but the way it is now, the game is balanced.
It doesn't make any sense historically, but in this game axes tend to have a bonus against armor, so I guess they gave them axes in order to give the Landsmenn another advantage over Carls.
Quote[/b] ]I've noticed this too. The Carls should have more attack than the Landsmenn because swords are better weapons, and they should get that +1 Valour bonus instead of Lendmen. That would be historically accurate, but the way it is now, the game is balanced.
Eh, lendmen bader than carls?
See, I know this: Lendmen = Swords...
By the way. You would never see a whole 100 man unit of lendmen on the battlefield in reality...
There were not that many districts in Norway and Denmark together http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.
Of 1 lendman unit, there would be 1 lendman and the rest of the unit would consist of his hirdmen (guards). So pherhaps the unit name could have been Lendman with Hird.
The carl name I don't get at all. It's probably German...
Leidgangr Warrior would have fitted better (of course give him an axe while the lendmen get swords). Leidgangr = a sort of drafting system.
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