View Full Version : Creative Assembly New Unit - City Militia
"Roman City Militia are generally steadfast and trained volunteers. They fight with spear and sword and can be a valuable resource to any army commander. City Militia still farm small areas of land but who were encouraged (after the Marian reforms) to make military service a career. Originally citizen farmers who had enough property to equip themselves as soldiers and serve in a campaign before returning to their fields, after the Marian reforms they were encouraged to give priority to a military career but keep their farms. Historically, as the Empire expanded the old-style militias declined as it became increasingly hard to combine service in outlying areas with having to"
Btw, this is the worst description I've ever seen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
check it here (http://www.totalwar.com/community/unit1.htm)
Catiline
06-20-2003, 16:56
Quote[/b] ] Roman City Militia are generally steadfast and trained volunteers. They fight with spear and sword and can be a valuable resource to any army commander. City Militia still farm small areas of land but who were encouraged (after the Marian reforms) to make military service a career. Originally citizen farmers who had enough property to equip themselves as soldiers and serve in a campaign before returning to their fields, after the Marian reforms they were encouraged to give priority to a military career but keep their farms. Historically, as the Empire expanded the old-style militias declined as it became increasingly hard to combine service in outlying areas with having to (missing)
http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/romil.jpg
I have to say I'm not at all sure what's going on here. These sound like a very strange mix indeed, but hte description, to me at least doesn't seem to be hte clearest, sorry CA.
THey sound most like hte triarii from that description, but what this has to do with their status after hte Marian reforms which seems to be discussed later I'm not sure.
My suspicion is htat this is the basic Roman unit, if it's combining hte earlier types of legionary then that'll be a shame. If it's not and the hastati, principes, triarii etc are all represented, then I don't see where this type fits in.
Discuss
I think they sound like Roman Peasents proberly be like cannon fodder in the roman army when you play just like urban militia or something.
Catiline
06-20-2003, 18:12
Merged my topic with pr Fire's
wow i learned nothing from that description http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
MiniKiller
06-20-2003, 18:53
I did, they are or were farmers who took up arms. Kind of like city police? city milita, and there u have it. IMO anywho
Sir Robin
06-20-2003, 19:33
Maybe they were trying to satisfy the RTW fanatics, me, and didn't proof read before they posted.
Kongamato
06-20-2003, 19:37
This description contains many grammatical errors. Perhaps the night has been risen or in delay it designs to a combination others of two descriptions of the unit was. The author can begin like it their phrases like the phrases not to determine, is inclined to it to go through. As it seems is moreover an unit standard of the Militia, a part with the normal forces of one war to be. Pleasant, if it would approximately be concentrated on the normal forces, instead of concentration on the unusual forces in RTW.
Knight_Yellow
06-20-2003, 22:40
lady's and gentle men meet the new Peasants
Perhaps:
City Militia=Urban Militia? Huh, huh? Any takers? They don't seem as ill-equipped as peasants, so they might be like urbies, decent combat skills with terrible defense that quails against professional soldiery.
Quote[/b] (Catiline @ June 20 2003,20:12)]Merged my topic with pr Fire's
Thank you, we posted almost in the same time.
chilliwilli
06-21-2003, 17:16
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 20 2003,18:59)]Perhaps:
City Militia=Urban Militia? Huh, huh? Any takers? They don't seem as ill-equipped as peasants, so they might be like urbies, decent combat skills with terrible defense that quails against professional soldiery.
Thats what I was thinking too.
Quote[/b] (chilliwilli @ June 21 2003,12:16)]
Quote[/b] (Lehesu @ June 20 2003,18:59)]Perhaps:
City Militia=Urban Militia? Huh, huh? Any takers? They don't seem as ill-equipped as peasants, so they might be like urbies, decent combat skills with terrible defense that quails against professional soldiery.
Thats what I was thinking too.
yes i have also thought about that.
RisingSun
06-21-2003, 20:34
Yeah,I immediately thought of uran militia, though they will probably be slightly more effective.
Herodotus
06-22-2003, 06:50
I wonder if there will be any units that will be worth building purely for keeping order ie. Roman police (can't remember what they were called) who were very like British police today, that is armed only with a short club. Among their jobs was preventing crime and cleaning up the streets (including abandoned babies).
Kongamato
06-22-2003, 07:18
The Police will probably be a building of sorts like the Town Watch. I would expect to see some policemen or militia patrolling the streets(we did in that one movie) after this building's construction.
Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ June 22 2003,09:18)]The Police will probably be a building of sorts like the Town Watch. I would expect to see some policemen or militia patrolling the streets(we did in that one movie) after this building's construction.
Then we should see thieves, women raped and all those kind of things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
RisingSun
06-22-2003, 15:58
Not in my Rome *clubs thief over head* And don't think they would rape women in the sreets. SHEESH. Give the Romans a little credit http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Brother Derfel
06-22-2003, 16:02
Quote[/b] (Herodotus @ June 22 2003,00:50)]I wonder if there will be any units that will be worth building purely for keeping order ie. Roman police (can't remember what they were called) who were very like British police today, that is armed only with a short club. Among their jobs was preventing crime and cleaning up the streets (including abandoned babies).
If anyone has played Ceaser II, then you will know how the Prefectures opperate in that. I recon that would be a good way for the police force to work in RTW
Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ June 22 2003,11:58)]And don't think they would rape women in the sreets.
Well, as far as it is my empire, I can blow all rooftops off so I hav a nice view of what my citizens are doing inside their houses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
alman9898
06-22-2003, 16:50
Roman policemen are called prefects.
Catiline
06-22-2003, 17:28
THey were called vigiles actually, prefect was a rank.
Catiline is vigilant as always... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Yea, But somehow i dont think the City militia are Prefects their proberbly be towns folk with a sword.
Hakonarson
06-22-2003, 23:25
IIRC there were Urban cohortes that were supposed to be the only armed force allowed in Rome:
the following is from http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romanarmy.html
When Augustus instituted the office of city prefect (praefectus urbi), he also established 3 cohorts (the cohortes urbanae) to constitute a sort of police force for the city of Rome. These troops were also stationed in the camp of the praetorians in Rome, though they served under the command of the city prefect, a man of senatorial rank. Outstanding service in the urban cohorts could lead to promotion into the more prestigious praetorian guard.
The vigiles, also founded by Augustus, served as fire fighters and night watchmen in the city of Rome. They were originally drawn from the ranks of freedmen and were not really soldiers, although they were organized on a quasi-military basis. The commander of the vigiles was a prefect of equestrian rank (the praefectus vigilum). They were divided into seven cohorts led by tribunes; each cohort was responsible for two of the 14 regions of the city.
Neither of these seems appropriate.
Possibly what CA are referring to is teh fact that most/all roman citizens of property would have served in the military at some point, and had their own equipment. therefore they could be called out quite rapidly to form a sizeable force of heavy infantry.
I'm not sure off-hand how often this was done, but certainly during the civil wars all sides took reinforcements from teh provinces that could only be people of this type.
I suspect that they would be rated as pretty much the same as ordinary legionaries - possibly a point or 2 lower in morale due to not having a full allocation of officers?
Another possibility is that they represent the senior part of the army - those men over 47 who still probably had access to most or all of their kit and were were no longer required to serve in the legions, but who for garrison service only.
Catiline
06-23-2003, 09:17
THinking about it in times of emergency the Romans could call tumultum which IIRC called up every able bodied man to serve, and didn't require the normal process for recruiting legions. only used in times of real emergency.
we should also bear in mind that hte game is apparently now based at least in part around cities, and there are other cities in Italy htan Rome, for whom legions aren't necessarily appropriate.
Clearly this unit doesn't match up to the vigiles or the urban cohorts, my point was htat hte closest hting Rome had to a police force were the vigils.
Hakonarson
06-23-2003, 11:03
Note that these are ROMAN city militia - sure Rome wasn't the only city, but I wonder how appropriate it would be to call the "militia" of other cities "Roman" - especially in hte earlier part of hte period when "Roman" was pretty much just Rome and Latium - there's several major cities that could raise troops of their own - Capua, Syracuse, Tarentum, etc, but they wouldn't have ROMAN city militia.
Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ June 23 2003,13:03)]Note that these are ROMAN city militia - sure Rome wasn't the only city, but I wonder how appropriate it would be to call the "militia" of other cities "Roman" - especially in hte earlier part of hte period when "Roman" was pretty much just Rome and Latium - there's several major cities that could raise troops of their own - Capua, Syracuse, Tarentum, etc, but they wouldn't have ROMAN city militia.
After reading this unit description Hakonarson, I really don't think that they paid to much attention to this minor aspect.
Captain Fishpants
06-23-2003, 12:17
You'll all be happy to know that the description has now been changed to reflect the purpose of the unit: which is to provide defence to colonia from the farmers and retired legionaries in the area. These blokes aren't the Urban Cohorts in any way. Never intended to be.
MikeB ~ CA
hehehe, Thanks Fishpants, there was a rebeliion brewing here
*heads over to totalwar.com* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Town Watch
The Town Watch are steadfast and trained volunteers who choose to defend their homes and lands on a part time basis and partly at their own expense. Originally drawn from among citizen farmers who had enough land to be able to afford military equipment, after Marius' reforms the Watch were recruited from retired legionaries who were granted land around colonia. They fight with spears and swords and can give a good account of themselves, but they are no substitute for full time, well trained and young legionaries.
Kongamato
06-23-2003, 13:44
They fight with spears and swords? How is that to be implemented? Was it even possible?
Captain Fishpants
06-23-2003, 13:59
Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ June 23 2003,07:44)]They fight with spears and swords? How is that to be implemented? Was it even possible?
Nearly everyone who carried a spear also carries a sword or dagger for (very) close combat - hence the ability of units to fight with two weapons. After all, once you've thrown your last spear at the enemy how are you going to fight?
The Legionaries will, for example, be able to throw their pila and then draw swords to finally close with the enemy.
MikeB ~ CA
well i read in an interview that you would be drawing your armies from the local populus and can return them thus after wars
Kongamato
06-23-2003, 17:05
Ahhh, THROWING spears. Thank you for your prompt reply.
Hakonarson
06-23-2003, 21:41
Great - a sensible change http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ June 23 2003,14:17)]You'll all be happy to know that the description has now been changed to reflect the purpose of the unit: which is to provide defence to colonia from the farmers and retired legionaries in the area. These blokes aren't the Urban Cohorts in any way. Never intended to be.
MikeB ~ CA
So will we have the Urban cohorts in the game? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
shingenmitch2
06-24-2003, 14:03
Couple of quick observations:
Cat --
u gotta work out ur issues with "TH" as opposed to "HT" reading that message would hurt a dislexic's eyes... :P
Captn' et. al.:
it is more accurate to call all thrusting/stabing sticks w/ points "spears" and those meant to be thrown as "javelins." In theory a "throwing spear" is a dual use weapon, but in practical use they were usually one or the other. Better to stick with spear for stabbing and and javelin for throwing to save confusion in descriptions in the future.
The pila (of which there were 2 types... heavy and light) is the evolutionary pinnacle of the javelin -- having virtually no application as a stab & thrust weapon -- and can only be described as a spear in the most tenuous application of the term.
What are you talking about Micth? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
CBR
Hakonarson
06-24-2003, 22:05
A spear is a pole with a sharp point.
Javelins are a specialised type of spear meant only for throwing - a subset of spear. But even the lightest javelins can be retained in hand for poking with. In practice any spear can be thrown - Byzantine Skutatoi threw 12 foot spears when engaging infantry to get rid of them before using swords for combat.
Romans specifically retained their pila for thrusting vs cavalry, so they weer evidently more useful than swords alone.
The Pila was not the ultimate javelin - it was one style of javelin that was shown to be an evolutionary dead end. Lighter javelins remained in use up to today - the Pilum has disappeared.
I think, if recall correctly, that early roman arm force was composed of men who are property owners (i.e. farmers: owner of some lands) and called up to protect Rome and surrounding area. The soldiers pay for their own arms, armors and shields, with those who are richer could affort better equipements. The motivations for the soldiers were at first to protect their own properties against invasion, but later in time when Rome became a strong City-State, motivated by spoil of war.
I guess these developments from somewhat amateur soldiers to professional soldiers could be found in many cultures, not just Roman. The Romans were somewhat more organized than the people around them.
In the game, I think these are like urban militia, to be replaced later by professional troops.
Annie
Captain Fishpants
06-25-2003, 08:51
Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ June 24 2003,20:31)]...
I guess these developments from somewhat amateur soldiers to professional soldiers could be found in many cultures, not just Roman. The Romans were somewhat more organized than the people around them.
In the game, I think these are like urban militia, to be replaced later by professional troops.
Annie
Aha Someone who understands http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Indeed, the City Militia are a 'local defence force' and are positioned on the tech/build tree so that smaller settlements have a way of raising troops before the true Legion cohorts become available. The chances are that you'll want a these units early on as garrisons, last-ditch defenders and so on. Once you can train Legionaries and Auxilia, though, they'll be a better bang for your buck in most circumstances.
MikeB ~ CA
Sir Robin
06-25-2003, 18:43
Yeah the unit description is fixed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Wow I really want this game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Quote[/b] (Captain Fishpants @ June 25 2003,08:51)]
Quote[/b] (LadyAnn @ June 24 2003,20:31)]...
I guess these developments from somewhat amateur soldiers to professional soldiers could be found in many cultures, not just Roman. The Romans were somewhat more organized than the people around them.
In the game, I think these are like urban militia, to be replaced later by professional troops.
Annie
Aha Someone who understands http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Indeed, the City Militia are a 'local defence force' and are positioned on the tech/build tree so that smaller settlements have a way of raising troops before the true Legion cohorts become available. The chances are that you'll want a these units early on as garrisons, last-ditch defenders and so on. Once you can train Legionaries and Auxilia, though, they'll be a better bang for your buck in most circumstances.
MikeB ~ CA
Why not simply use velites or other light infantry for small communities? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
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