Tax Policy?

[Crash]

I always set my tax rate to very high in all but a few provinces, and then either use a garrison or various happiness enhancing techniques to prevent revolts. So my faction rarely has serious cash flow problems.

The few exceptions would be poor provinces such as Arabia, where the difference between the very low and very high rate is relatively small, so I leave it at very low. Also if I have just captured a province, I always set the tax rate to very low until the loyalty factor increases. Certain stubbornly rebellious provinces, Portugal for example, require a low tax rate for a long time to prevent rebellions.

I have read other posts where players recommend using the Normal tax rate for most provinces. I'm sure that there are many opinions, recommendations, experiences with this issue, and that most players have their own rules and exceptions to their rules http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[HopAlongBunny]

auto-tax. almost all the time.

early in the game I might "tweak" tax rates to get a few more florins here and there, but overall auto works great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

I like very low taxes, but that's a definite minority view. I like to leave as few units to garrison duty as possible.

[Brother Derfel]

I always wak my taxes as high as i can get them whithout the province rebelling.

I like to live dangerously http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Crash]

I haven't used the auto-tax yet, I should give it a try. Garrisons might seem wasteful, but they serve a double-purpose for me. They are my ready-reserve in case of a disasterous battle loss or suprise attack, and with a very high tax rate I can afford to pay for them.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Crash @ June 20 2003,15:14)]Garrisons might seem wasteful, but they serve a double-purpose for me. They are my ready-reserve in case of a disasterous battle loss or suprise attack, and with a very high tax rate I can afford to pay for them.
My dislike of garrisons stems from the time I let a Crusade with Frankish knights get past me and had to chase it with my real army. I collected a huge army of reserve garrison units -- second-rate infantry -- to get in front of the Crusade. It was wiped out.

[Crash]

Ouch I can understand your distaste for second-rate reserves, and I can see that happening to me sometime.

My ready-reserves have been useful for putting down rebellions, but if I weren't using a very high tax rate all of the time maybe there wouldn't be a rebellion to put down. Your right about second rate units fighting Crusaders, they don't stand a chance against Templars, Hospitaliers, Orders, and such.

Still I like to see all the cash rolling in, and once the province is pretty civilized - churches, mosques, palaces, good governors, etc., you don't need much of a garrison.

[LadyAnn]

My tax policy:
Only tax "very high" on provinces that yield a lot of florins (good resources, have trade, good governor). The rest, I put it low to minimize the needs to garison on each province.

For instance, if you need to keep a couple of units in the province just to extract about 30 bucks, you are not gaining anything...

Auto-tax works too. Just want to micro-manage the game :)

Annie

[Satyr]

Auto-tax all the time. Just don't use it in version 1.0 as it would keep your loyaly at 100% but you can get rebellions/reappearances if your loyaly is less than 120%.

I hate micromanaging to the degree necessary to maximize my taxes myself. It would probably take twice as long to play a campaign if I had to do that. Just auto-tax and you will be happy.

[Crash]

I haven't tried the auto-tax yet, because I do enjoy the micromanaging to a certain extent, I admit. But I'm sure it does take me at least twice as long to manage things because of it. I'll definitely give auto-tax a try though, especially if I can get through the game faster.

Does anyone have anything negative to say about auto-taxing, or positive to say about micromanaging?

[MiniKiller]

I use very high tax, after a few turns I can leave one unit in taht province and I'm find, still 120% or higer.

[A Nerd]

I always set tax according to loyalty, until I can have it at very high all the time. I leave a unit of peasants or a spy in the province to keep the loyalty up. Only leave garrisons for Scotland and Portugal and the like. Always bleed your provinces dry, that's what I say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[econ21]

I never used to use auto-tax because of early misinformation about high taxes leading to mass rebellions. Since they set the default auto-tax loyalty at 120%, I have switched on the auto-tax and haven't looked back. Micro-managing really does not pay off here and the game is long enough already...

[andrewt]

I keep everything to normal, except when I need to set it to low or very low to decrease chances of rebellions. You need at least a garrison size of 100 to quell rebellions so I leave at least 2 peasant groups in all provinces since crusades passing through or assassins could easily cut it to below 100.

If I need money, I set the stable, high trade or farmland provinces to very high. Taxes don't affect mine income so only trade or farmland provinces.

[Jeff]

I like to micromanage my provinces so it doesn't bother me to constantly change the tax rate. Usually I'll keep my tax rate at very high and have a couple of reserve units sit there to ensure no rebellions. I like to have some reserve units anyway so that's ok. The provinces with no goods to trade or anything of value I just keep on normal so I don't have to worry. I usually try and keep the loyalty at around 150% or better so as to worry about my War fronts and nothing else.

[Maelstrom]

I, too, tax to a loyalty of 150%+, and always maintain a garrison of 120 (2 units woodsmen usually - total cost 46f/turn on normal size units - almost any province can support that). I never have any trouble with rebellions...

PS The net effect of this along with a significant expenditure on loyalty upgrades is all provinvces on very high taxation for the vast majority of the game.

[The Last Emperor]

If the province loyalty allows, will usually just tax under "normal" level...if the province is rebellious, then will tune down the tax to lower level...like to keep my ppl as happy as possible... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 21 2003,02:04)]Since they set the default auto-tax loyalty at 120%, I have switched on the auto-tax and haven't looked back.
Did this happen with the Vikings expansion? If so, it was a wise move. Famines and floods won't cause as many rebellions.

[Crash]

I'm still leaning toward using very-high tax rate as a rule, with exceptions for rebellious and new captured provinces. In order to get all the loyalty and revenue improvements in, you need more tax revenue. If you take care to have good governors, and build a churches, mosques, palaces, ribats, etc, it's possible to maintain the very-high tax rate most of the time. All the building activity also improves the "Steward" and "Builder" virtues of the Emperor, Kings, and Governors, which in turn improves the loyalty of the provinces. So it's like an upward spiral of development and happiness.

All this means more micromanagement and longer games, however, so I'm going to give auto-tax a try, and then I can report back to you the difference between micromanaging and auto-managing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[The_Emperor]

I Micromanage my provinces according to their relative value (high coastal trade provinces especially).

But I like to keep my taxes as low as I can afford, especially if I have a lot of spare cash.

I had mass-rebellions at Very High Tax levels myself, so I know enough to be careful with it. My experience is that the longer you hold a province at very high levels the more likely it is to rebel against you, even if loyalty levels appear comfortable.

[Doug-Thompson]

On a technical note:

The "Income" roster (when you click the icon with the gold coins) also shows the loyalty levels.

If the loyalty level is low, you can tell quickly, then click on the province on the roster and go to it.

Sure, pressing the "shift" button does the same thing by color-coding the map, but I've found the list is much more helpful.

A province with a loyalty of 101% is just as green as a province with 200% when using the "shift-map" method. You're more likely to see trouble brewing before a revolt if you keep an eye on the figures, in my opinion.

========

This is also probably common knowlege, but bears repeating.

If you right-click on a province to get its tax rate information, etc. you will also see the governor's name at the top. Click on that name, and the screen and selection will go to the governor.

It's very useful for "tidying up" after governors have been away on campaign.

[MizuKokami]

hey, i'm the king, it all belongs to me anyway
but i do autotax

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I generally prefer normal tax rates except for filthy rich provinces like antioch or venice where I try to get max cash. It seems sometimes - perhaps I notice this after the event and so may be untrue - if the tax is below normal the governor becomes progressively charitable and then idiotically charitable loosing me money, and if too high then he becomes greedy/ family above all etc etc

Never used autotax - I try to maintain loyalty at 150% or better, I really like it when the message pops up saying I am th emost loved monarch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[CeeBod]

On a related topic, I'm part way into my first Elmohead campaign, and I've just discovered how useful Nubian Spearmen are as garrison units - the same unit size as Peasants, for the same support cost, but actually not totally useless if you ever need to use them in battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

OK - so that's probably very obvious to the experienced players, but I don't get to play as often as I'd like, and I've mostly been enjoying playing as the English till now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (o_loompah @ June 24 2003,16:33)]It seems sometimes - perhaps I notice this after the event and so may be untrue - if the tax is below normal the governor becomes progressively charitable and then idiotically charitable loosing me money, and if too high then he becomes greedy/ family above all etc etc
I can't say that I've seen the same problem, and I routinely leave the taxes on "very low." I seem to have more "family above all" governors as any other vice.

Things like the distance from the ruler seem to have more of an effect. Governors close to the king seem to stay in line, while those in distant provinces -- especially rich ones -- seem to go bad.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (CeeBod @ June 25 2003,09:45)]On a related topic, I'm part way into my first Elmohead campaign, and I've just discovered how useful Nubian Spearmen are as garrison units - the same unit size as Peasants, for the same support cost, but actually not totally useless if you ever need to use them in battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I like the Nubians a lot. They're a good early-game unit. Almohad urban militia are nice, too.

[Crash]

I tend to replace peasants as garrison units with regular urban militia because their maintenance cost is lower than peasants and their training cost is lower than any unit but peasants. For the Almohads, the Murabitin infantry also have a relatively low training and maintenance costs, so I sometimes replace the peasants and urban militia with them for garrison duty. Nubians are good all around, cheap enough for garrison and good enough for battles. The Almohad Militia are the best bargain though, tough basic infantry, better than Byzantine infantry and a lot cheaper.

I am using auto-tax for my current Almohad campaign, and I like it a lot. I noticed that if I want a very high tax rate for a province, just increase the garrison. If I want a lower tax rate just decrease the garrison. So I can still control the tax rate, and use garrison units more efficiently. "Efficiency of Resources", quoting Doug-Thompson, is the key in the strategic campaign (forgive me if the quote is not right) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[octavian]

i never used to use auto-tax, until i found out about the command line (see froggy's begginers guide to total war) now auto-tax is my best friend, i use it all the time, i just have trouble remembering to use the shortcut on my desktop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif so, the moral of the story is, USE AUTO-TAX W/ COMMAND LINES, man, that felt good to get out of my system. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Brutal DLX]

High tax rate is standard for most of my provinces.

[Satyr]

I can never understand why someone would micro taxes. That is exactly what autotax does for you. It raises taxes as much as it can without bringing loyalty under 120%. But more importantly, it lowers taxes when your loyalty starts dropping so that you won't get that surprise rebellion.

And version 1.1 fixed autotax so that it works at 120% although you can use a command line switch to make it work correctly in 1.0.

[Yoko Kono]

call me a traditionalist but i like to manage every aspect of my empire even the annoying bits
i guess im just a sucker for detail

[katank]

Me too. I like to tweak the tax rate and squeeze out as much cash as I want. This is usually during the early years in which I need every single last florin to finance my war efforts and hence I want only 100 loyalty if I can get more cash.

I do use autotax later but it doens't matter as much anyhow.

[TheSilverKnight]

I need money for my Crusades. So therefore, every province, no matter how much it's worth, is set to VERY HIGH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[katank]

are you sure that's a good idea though? I think for some provinces like switzerland, arabia, sinai, etc. It actually costs you more at very high as the support of additional garrison outstrips gains from higher taxes.

[son of spam]

TAX YOUR PEOPLE TO DEATH MUHAHAHAH, and make sure most of your governors executes prisoners twice to get that juicy +2 dread.

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
I gradually raise it and end up with 200% loyalty/very high tax provinces as a standard.

I build up everywhere on my hold (givig a slight but sure priority to happiness structures) and pay attention to keeping spies and clerics everywhere. Often no garrison is ever necessary.

The exception is for those provinces that I have invaded, scorched down to ground zero and don't want to keep. I immediately raise to very high, retreat all troops/subterfuge and even assign a bad governor with maximum 1 acumen but still most of them won't revolt due to my monarch's top influence (I suppose).
_

[Red Harvest]

Tax 'em at the max. 100% loyalty is enough...except for the first turn after loading a save. Loyalty does not display properly that turn and seems to vary by 20-25% so you need to be careful for that.

The way I understand it autotax has a couple of big problems. One is that it won't tell you when you need to do something to improve loyalty. Instead it lowers the tax so that you can get in deep doo-doo before you know. Second is that you will make far less money with it. Third is that it will not necessarily set taxes low enough to prevent rebellion after loading a save.

[gaijinalways]

I enjoy taxing to the hilt on every province as long as the 120 % loyalty 'rule' can be enforced. It is true, though that on newly taken provinces, historically rebellious provinces in this game (such as Portugal) and provinces where the religion doesn't match the rulers, I tend to try and stabilize things with a lager than normal garrison, spies, and quickly I move to build things that will help to quell rebellions and increase happiness.

I am wondering if tax rates affect reemergence of factions?

Perhaps it might if the province is unhappy, though I don't know from　my own playing experience. I get factions regenerating (in Switzerland the French and the Spanish and also the Swiss of course within one campaign) but sometimes it seems more likely if the people are far from your king and/or unhappy.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]Tax 'em at the max. 100% loyalty is enough...

100% loyalty isn't always enough, faction reemergences can happen up to 120% and possibly loyalist rebellions.


Citera[/b] ]
The way I understand it autotax has a couple of big problems. One is that it won't tell you when you need to do something to improve loyalty.

Thats very rarely a problem, my provinces don't usually get small drops of loyalty. And it's hard to miss if your provinces are ship-locked. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Citera[/b] ]Second is that you will make far less money with it
Far less money? Over 90% of my empire always got very high taxes and they are mostly only garrisoned by the governor. The only time I can think about, when you would lose some larger income is the first 10 turns.


Citera[/b] ]Third is that it will not necessarily set taxes low enough to prevent rebellion after loading a save.

I had never, ever gotten a rebellion this way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

Auto tax may have a problem with spies, considering that I've been able to drop the loyalty slightly below 100% and the comp hasn't changed his taxes, but is still running around with high or normal taxes. This might explain why the Danes sometimes get rebellions in Denmark, despite it being their only province.

[Goofball]

From a previous post, this is my system for managing taxes and income:

1) I always use auto-tax, with the following change: set the default loyalty to 180% rather than 120%

2) I maintain a garrison in every province consisting of the following:
· 1 x 100 man spear unit
· 1x 60 man spear/sword unit
· 1 x 60 man missile unit
· 1 x 20 man knight unit

3) I always make my provincial governor one of the above-mentioned units

4) I make sure the general I choose as governor has at least 4 acumen and at least 3 dread

5) I keep the following strategic agents in every province:
· 1 x Assassin
· 2 x Spy
· 1 x Religious agent (i.e. Bishop, Cardinal, Imam, etc…)

6) Make sure every province has the following buildings, minimum:
· Town watch
· Church/Mosque
· Tavern
· Brothel
· 80% farm upgrade
· Highest Merchant upgrade possible
· Port
· Any Mines available
· Border Forts

The result of this system is that any provinces you have held for at least 3 years will always be auto-taxed at the “very high” level, without ever having loyalty drop below 180%. This maximizes revenue and stability. I have NEVER had a revolt or rebellion using this system, and usually have ample supplies of cash lying around, once I hit the High period.

[Kropazz]

I always keep it on very high, even in a new province. Rebels just another way to get more money (sounds a bit greedy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif ). Method i use - never keep a garrison in low morale province (keep in next one instead), rebellion wan't be so big http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif