View Full Version : Fear the Camel!
Ever see horses run from camels on the battlefield? I never took camels seriously until I saw them rout Armenian Heavy Calvary in a sandstorm. The Ottomans invaded Syria, and all I had to defend with were camels and Nubian spearmen. When I saw that Ottomans had brought Armenian Heavy Calvary, I pretty much gave up hope. But I figured I might as well fight it out for as long as possible.
My Bedouin camel troops were able to flank the Armenian Heavies for some reason - because of the sandstorm maybe? Soon after camel charge slammed into the Armenian horse, the Ottomans were fleeing battlefield. Boy was I surprised
Anyone else ever see anything like that?
Doug-Thompson
06-20-2003, 21:27
Camels have a bonus against cavalry, and for good reason. Camels scare horses, for some reason. This was first put to use by Cyrus the Great, founder of the ancient Persian Empire.
Camels don't have much of an attack against anything else, though.
What's really fun is to get some elite unit of knights to charge without orders -- something they tend to do -- with some cavalry archers or something, lead them off on a long chase, then wipe those knights out with camels.
and bulls are afraid of horses lol I think mainly because the horse will kick the bull before the bull sticks its horns to the horse
MiniKiller
06-21-2003, 02:16
Horses are afriad of camels imo because they smell, spit and make funny noises http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Oh ya and have more stamina.
Pablo Sanchez
06-21-2003, 05:10
In one Byzantine game the AI Egyptians decided to invade lesser Armenia with a mixed force that replaced Cav with Camels. After my Byz Infantry chopped them up like paper I mostly wrote them off and sent some Proanoaoi Allagion to keep them from menacing my archers. Imagine my surprise when my elite cavalry were humbled by the ugly beasts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Ugly Beasts?
dont say that to an arab, they will have your neck, Camels are considered beauties
Quote[/b] (Pablo Sanchez @ June 21 2003,07:10)]In one Byzantine game the AI Egyptians decided to invade lesser Armenia with a mixed force that replaced Cav with Camels. After my Byz Infantry chopped them up like paper I mostly wrote them off and sent some Proanoaoi Allagion to keep them from menacing my archers. Imagine my surprise when my elite cavalry were humbled by the ugly beasts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
don't engage them with anything else, in the desert, than arrows or capable spearmen.
DemonArchangel
06-21-2003, 12:32
"My varangians make so much dog food from your camels" -Strategos of Nicea to Saladin; Alternate history of the Byzantine Empire.
Quote[/b] (DemonArchangel @ June 21 2003,14:32)]"My varangians make so much dog food from your camels" -Strategos of Nicea to Saladin; Alternate history of the Byzantine Empire.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif Now that's a first. I don't think it's true, though.
DDogwood
06-21-2003, 23:22
Horses are afraid of pretty much anything that's unfamiliar - camels, elephants, guns, large blocks of men with long pointy sticks...
Herodotus
06-22-2003, 06:28
I think they should at least scare their own cavalry aswell.
Old Bald Guy
06-22-2003, 13:00
I think something has changed with the VI "patch." Camels seem to be WAY stronger than they were before. Lately, I've seen camels whacking just about everything they run across, even spearmen. What a surprise to see "winning easily" when you pause over the skirmish. I'm used to them blowing the horn when attacked by peasants, but now they seem to be relishing the battle. Am I the only one to notice it?
Camels are supposed have a big bonus in the desert, does anyone know how much, and if it's more in VI than in MTW?
I haven't tried them since I got VI, but I found them plenty powerful before.
Quite capable of taking on vanilla spears with a good chance of winning.
Not so hot outside the desert though.
Doug-Thompson
06-23-2003, 16:14
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ June 23 2003,05:33)]Not so hot outside the desert though.
Nice pun.
Camels are uber elite haxorzzz 1337 roxorzzz light cavalry. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif They are very good with valor, and become very hard to kill for just guys on camels.
I've always had great success using Berber Camel warriors to counter any threat from Spanish Jinettes. They are nothing uber, but they compliment Elmo's forces quite well I think.
I wonder what's scarier to horses, a bunch of stinky camels or an elephant? How do the CA developers figure out what an anti-Cav bonus for camels, elephants, or dog-food companies would be? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
i like using camel troops as flanking attackers...normally i engage the enemy with my heavy inf in centre with a line of archers at back and i normally send couple of camel troops on a long flanking move ..which if timed right tends to crash into enemies at the time when they fully engaged http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
bhutavarna
06-26-2003, 21:01
too slow don't stand a chance against fast moving horse archers.
What are the differences and similarities between Berber and Bedouin camels? What are the best tactics for them. I haven't had many desert battles yet since I usually have overwhelming forces by the time I get to North Africa and the Middle East. One of these days, though, I'd like fight a classic desert battle full of Bedouins and Berbers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Quote[/b] ]Nice pun.unintentional http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
I kinda used bedouin camels more as fast medium infantry rather than slow cavalry.
From that perspective they are plenty fast.
Anyway, exactly what is fast enough to stand a chance against fast moving horse archers?
Leet Eriksson
06-29-2003, 22:08
byzantine lancers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif they rock
bighairyman
07-04-2003, 02:00
do anyone have the kekvlairae(sp?) mod. in the mod, she gives u new units, one of them is the heavy camel.
this guys rock. these are heavy cavalry version of camels.
Ps only avalible to elmos and egypatains
Doug-Thompson
07-04-2003, 03:20
Quote[/b] (arrrse @ June 29 2003,05:57)]Anyway, exactly what is fast enough to stand a chance against fast moving horse archers?
Bonused Saharan cavalry from Cyrenia. Fast, cheap and out of control.
You get them early, too. All they need is a fort, +20 percent agriculture, and a horse breeder. The farming upgrade is a bit of a waste in the desert, though.
Some armor upgrades wouldn't hurt.
bighairyman
07-04-2003, 17:43
what about steepe cavalry. and other horse archers, they may not catch them but could keep the enemy HAs out of action http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Degtyarev14.5
07-04-2003, 17:50
Foot archers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Smaller target = fewer hits. Also, more troops per unit = more shots fired per unit time.
For best results, take the higher ground. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
A.
Doug-Thompson
07-06-2003, 22:09
Quote[/b] (ArseClown @ July 04 2003,11:50)]Foot archers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Ah, but the question asked was what could catch horse archers.
Foot archers still drive off cavalry archers economically. They can render those expensive cav archers useless, which is almost as good at catching them. However, supporting infantry isn't around the cavalry archers can melee attack and wipe out the foot archers PDQ.
Degtyarev14.5
07-07-2003, 03:23
Point taken.
The obvious answer, then, is light cav.
Preferably Alans, simply because they kick arse. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Personally, I'm rather partial to mounted sergeants. They can deal suprising amounts of casualties to knights, provided they
a) come in from the flank or from behind, and
b) get a clear, uninterrupted charge.
But giving chase to horse archers divides your army, and sometimes this just can not be. Save those light horses for enemy archers / seige weaponry, I say.
A.
Doug-Thompson
07-07-2003, 23:31
Some enemy foot archers stood out in front of their infantry line last night. I charged them with Saharan light cavalry. Predictably, out came a formation of spears. The Saharans were so nimble and quick, though, they practically turned on a dime and ran off, chased by the spears and some Ghulam bodyguards to boot.
Archers and Almohad urban militia wiped out the spear formation while some armored spearmen, Ghulam bodyguards and Berber camels (charging, not shooting arrows) wiped out the opposing bodyguards. Then the battle really began. It was sweet.
===================
How often do people use Berber camels as melee units? They seem to do all right against horses. I'll do some fiddling around with that tonight.
The Berbers are decent against primitive spears with their arrows and seem to be decent against horses with their melee.
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