Old Testament Period Mod

[Lotar]

I was wondering if anyone else would be interested in doing this sort of mod. Basically it would be set in the Old Testament time period. Specifically after the death of King Solomon, and his kingdom split into Judah and Israel.
Some of the factions would be Judah, Israel, Moab, Philistines, Egypt, Assyrians, Babylonians, and a couple more I can't think of right now.
Anyways, I was going to start a mod like this and was wondering if anyone else would like to be involved.

[komninos]

I have started a mod like that. Though I just named it prehistoric it is more or less it that period. Starting date was roughly 1600AD - 1000AD that end with the explosion of Strongili (now days Santorini) and the coming of the dark ages.
The factions in my mined were Egyptians, Lybians (basicaly desert barbarians), Nubians (if I had a new map), Early Hebrew, Philistines, Canaanite, Ugaritic, Syrian , Hittite, Mycenean, Minoan, and Midianite Arab.

Problems faced ... many,
New map was needed I have built one but had to reduce regions. The Map should cover East Mediteranian basin, midle east, and as South as Abisinia so you could get the Nubians.

Chariots
Simulating the chariot was very dificalt. The problem came from the fact that the chariots should stop to fire. Also modeling a chariot attack is not very nicely dune. AND you need to built a chariot sprite ... that was the chalenge if you remember the post.

War Wagons and Ox carts.
These were uses as mobile towers again a sprite is needed.

From that mod I had done the Egyptians, the Greeks (Mycenean, Minoan, Cycladitic or sea people), Lybians, Canaanite, Ugaritic, Syrian , Hittite that covered the early period of the mod till ~1200AD.

Bigger problem I have just delited everything http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif to start a parallel mod with the Hellenic Total War

===================================

A look at what you have to do can be seen at DBAol (http://www.dbaol.com/armies.htm) army list.

You should look at armies,5 ,8a, 8b, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14a, 14b, 15a, 15b and finaly 17 if you would like to take it to 700AD
Also a nice addition would be if you went as far as 3000AD armies like 1, 2, 3, 4a, 4b
I get my unit symbols from these guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

At fanaticus you can fined some good info on these armies fast
DBA 2.0 Armies (http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/index.html)
DBA 1.1 Armies (http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/ancients.html)

[dclare4]

Biggest problem as I see it is also the chariots but there should be no reason why you can't go ahead and work on other units. The closest to chariots would be mounted archers I think but I don't know if there's a way you can make the guy offset to the rear of the horse to make a chariot. But I've been looking around for a game of this sort for a long time.

Lord de Clare

[komninos]

Offsetting the charioteer to the rear is no problem. I have done it. Also had a working two horse standing figure. Modelling them was something else

The chariot offers a huge charge value but if it is stopped it should be doomed. So chariots never stopped not even for a shot since they had a two man crow

[Lotar]

Ok, I stole Duke John's idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif , and I made a chariot model in lightwave. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to do this. I might just use a chariot and horse bif, and have the men in a different bif. Even though its not accurate, I'm just going to have 1 man and 1 horse per chariot. Also, so that there isn't much resolution lost, I'll have the run/walk/charge actions the same. When I'm done with this, I could e-mail it to you for your mod if you want. Ofcourse thats saying if I finish, Making the images is fun, but I hate those stupid text files.

[Lord Of Storms]

This sounds like a most promising Mod, I like that period myself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lotar]

Okay, I've been working on the chariot a little more, and here is what it's going to look like. Sorry that I had to use the Ehorse, but the lighthorse doesn't have the faction colors in the pallete. I figured this one looked better than the heavy horse.
http://members.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/pic.jpg

[Lotar]

Great, now I find out that the horse bifs don't use the faction colors http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
http://members.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/00000000.jpg

[komninos]

Great job .... but ...
You will need ligh and heavy chariots.
Light chariots use 2 horses and heavy use 4.
To do it I simply copied the hose image and paste it as transparent selection beside the existing one. This generated an exelent two horce image... I think I can send you the preliminary bmps. Stick a chariot and you are done.
Use the light horse and the knight horce for the heavy chariot

Forget the things tha hold the chariot in place and usa a standing figure like the archer and built a chariot around it for the light chariots
The Heavy will need the chainmail figure used by the byzantine infantry. So you can model attack with spear and javelins.

If you remember a chalenge I have posted two months ago in this forum for the sprite disigners .... this was it

[Lotar]

Send me those bifs, if you want and I'll try to use them.
I finished the chariot model the action txt file, except I might remove that stupid purple and green. I just need to finish the walking/running portion of the bifs. As for the heavy chariots, there just isn't enough room to place all the actions. With the current chariot there was only enough room for the stand and walk/run actions. I might be able to add one more, if I can, I'll seperate walk from run/charge.
Also, I want the chariot to be part of the mount, so that I can make multiple options for riders.
I am currently working on the charioteers. I have the shoot action down already.
A tip for Duke John, if he happens to read this. You probably already figured this out, but a good way to generate riders for mounts/chariots, is to model them on the mount, and change the color of the mount to green. Then it'll just cut off portions that shouldn't be seen.

[komninos]

Hi Lotar,

The files had only the standing action. The rest were in development. The thing is that there is a great space reduction to incert the chariot in but since you did it with one the two horse will not make a difference.
I will try to pack things and sendthem over.

[Lotar]

Okay, here are a few ideas for units I've come up with so far.
Judah/Israel:
Slingers
Archers
Spearmen
Armored spearmen
Javliners
Swordmen
Armored swordmen
Light calvary
Javlin calvary
Heavy Chariots (royal unit)
Light Chariots

Philistines:
Archers
Spearmen
Armored spearmen
Javliners
Swordmen
Armored swordmen
Light calvary
Javlin calvary
Iron Chariots (royal unit, very heavily armored)
Heavy Chariots
Light Chariots

Egypt:
Archers
Spearmen
Nubian Spearmen
Swordmen
Armored swordmen
Light calvary
Light Chariots
Egyptian Chariots (light but fast, expert archers, royal unit)

Assirian:
Archers
Spearmen
Armored spearmen
Javliners
Swordmen
Armored swordmen
Light calvary
Javlin calvary
Horse Archers
Heavy Chariots (royal unit)
Light Chariots
Seige equipment

More to come. I'm trying to make at least one special unit for each faction. In this time period it's easy to have all the factions too similar. I still have to add the Syrians, Moab, Amalek, and anyone else I'm forgeting. Also, the Babylonians will show up as the Mongols.
Calvary is new and is going to be hard to get, and heavy calvary haasn't been invented yet. Plus, since saddles and sturrips haven't been invented yet, there is no lances and charges will not be as effective. Chariots will have a good charge, but will be easily overwhelmed if they don't break the enemy.
Anyone have suggestions for units/factions?

[Lotar]

This picture kinda turned out crappy. I had to reduce the size to upload. Anyways, here is the Judah faction. If you can't tell, the flag is 2 lions with a crown in the center. It shows up a bit better in the game. In the background you can see the semi-complete chariots.
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/judah.jpg

[Lotar]

Ok, I re-did the flag for Judah, and it looks much better. Here's a couple of shots.

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/new.jpg

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/new2.jpg

[Lotar]

I've got most of the basic units' stats finished, and I finished Israel's flags/shields.

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/is1.jpg

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/is2.jpg

The spear unit in the back also throws javlins (2 each).

[GoldenKnightX2]

This is gonna be a geat mod, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif keep up the good work guys. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Lotar]

I just finished the philistine flags/sheilds. I took a little artistic liscense here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif , but I could not find any good examples for them. I saw a sculpture of Baal that had a bull on the crown, so thats what I used. Since the Philistines origonated from Greece, I used a Greek type image.

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/phil.jpg

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/phil2.jpg

Here's a battle, an alliance between Israel and Judah

http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/phil3.jpg
I know Israel has Nubian spearmen in this pic, don't worry, they won't when I'm finished http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/joker.gif
One thing you might notice is the small number of calvary. This is because they are expensive, and fairly weak. The calvary charge will not be a viable strategy, they are only good for flankers and support for infantry.

[komninos]

Hi Lotar,

I see that you used shields with faction colors are these from the units that all ready used them or you made them use it.

I am trying to give the faction emblems to the shields for the Hellenic Factions on new onits but the game does not use it.

[Lotar]

These units are ones who already use the facshield. Its easier to use origonal units and just change the names and description text, along with the stats.
In order to use the facshield with a new unit, just make sure you use the same bif, folder, and shield as the unit uses the shield you want. Thats always worked for me.

[Lotar]

I just finished Moab.
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/moab1.jpg
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/moab2.jpg
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/moab3.jpg

[Lotar]

And now the assyrians.
http://publish.hometown.aol.com/oo7nrw/myhomepage/asser.jpg

[Wellington]

Lotar,

Nice looking mod. I especially like the idea of a "biblical era" mod whereby (presumably) the relative weapons and armour differentiations for MTW units would be less pronounced.

I also like your idea of chariots (which are presumably defined as "mount BIFs") with charioteers drawn from existing infantry BIFs. If you have any "problems" with your chariots then please let me/us know - no guarentee I/we can help but LK, myself and others were thinking about Chariots and Elephants many months ago (and how to represent such within the confines of the MTW engine) so maybe there are still a few "chariot ideas" still swimming around in several minds.

Nice mod - keep it going

Welly

[TosaInu]

Wow

[Emp. Conralius]

I like howthis mod is progressing. But, when you start work on the Egyptian faction, will their swordsmen unit have those curved, sickle swords (a little vague on my prt). Head dresses?

[Lord Of Storms]

HI Lotar, Excellent work on the Chariots this Mod has alot of potential, keep up the good work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[komninos]

Hi Lotar,

I am progresing on the map front (I will install XP in a feu days) so I might be able to build a map for you ... but first I have to find out hou to insert it in VI.

[Lotar]

Quote[/b] ]Lotar,

Nice looking mod. I especially like the idea of a "biblical era" mod whereby (presumably) the relative weapons and armour differentiations for MTW units would be less pronounced.

I also like your idea of chariots (which are presumably defined as "mount BIFs") with charioteers drawn from existing infantry BIFs. If you have any "problems" with your chariots then please let me/us know - no guarentee I/we can help but LK, myself and others were thinking about Chariots and Elephants many months ago (and how to represent such within the confines of the MTW engine) so maybe there are still a few "chariot ideas" still swimming around in several minds.

Nice mod - keep it going

Welly

I do have a couple of questions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Is there a way to place the mount bif over the rider bif? I had to green out the areas that should be covered, otherwise they look like they are beside or in front of the chariot. Then for some reason it screws with the positioning, and I really don't feal like editing the weapons and shields texts.


Quote[/b] ]I like howthis mod is progressing. But, when you start work on the Egyptian faction, will their swordsmen unit have those curved, sickle swords (a little vague on my prt). Head dresses?

Maybe. I'm going to get VI today or tomorrow, then I'll use those shirtless guys for Egyption infantry, and I'll probably edit the swords. As for the headdress thing, it's probably more work than its worth.


Quote[/b] ]Hi Lotar,

I am progresing on the map front (I will install XP in a feu days) so I might be able to build a map for you ... but first I have to find out hou to insert it in VI.
If you could that'd be awesome. I have the map picture I want to use, and have most of the provances drawn out, so I'll finish it and send them to you if you figure it out.

[Yelping Godzilla]

I certainly like the sound of this mod and, of course, the prgoress that you've made so far is very promising. I hope the mod will be for VI though.

I always wondered why there were no slingers in MTW, so I'm especially looking forward to seeing how they turn out.

EEUURAAH.

[komninos]

The slingers were left out for a good reason ... everyone under estimated them Slingers were used by Byzantines but only in a handful of occasions.

The first time I heard good things about slingers was in Xenophons "Kyrou anavasis".
A slinger hurling fist-sized stones can hit a target at ~50m. This can brake a shield (Hoplon in his case) black a leg dislocate an arm ...

A slinger using small round stones can hit anything in ~100m. The effect is not as devastating as the large stones but any one with insufficient armour will suffer gravely.

Finally Rhodians used a stuff as an extension to the sling. Using specially crafted missiles from lead they could hit targets at ~150m. The speed and weight of the missile made them very effective.

I have built these categories of slingers in the HTW mod. Trust me they can work cat a unit in pieces. The one thing that can save you is light cav and the fact that these units are poor in all other respects. (they are virtually unarmed)

In this period were armour is non existent (at best you can have a light mail setting equivalent to heavy leather with scales) the slingers can have a huge effect

[barocca]

here's the irael mod thread
- i think this one has gone the way of so many and died
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Aurelian]

Thanks Barocca,

Very helpful of you to dig this out of the archives.

I think we're in much better shape now for putting together a 'Chariot Total War' mod than we were even a few months ago. The community seems to have come a long way in its ability to create new animations and maps; and VI allows for more bifs, Pope-avoidance, etc.

I'm currently looking at modding projects... and I'm leaning towards the chariot-era. I'll put together a prospectus for the community soon and see if we can generate some excitement.

Thanks again

[komninos]

Hi Aurelian http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif nice to find you here

I have the map that was needed for the era ... and a good complement of units to boot (from HTW). The thing is that I have sent it over to Welly due to some strange error I was getting out of it. (the map tested OK but when the total compilation was used it went totally wrong&#33http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Any way the problem is you need them chariot units ... with some help from Dock John I think we can have one heavy and one light chariot and may be a scythed one.

OK since China map is going very well ... till now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif that is I will re do the middle east map and take it from there ... in the mean time is back to the HTW for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif